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Is nietzsche claiming a new way to martial arts ?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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SimpleGuy
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Is nietzsche claiming a new way to martial arts ?

Post by SimpleGuy » August 17th, 2018, 9:40 am

Is nihilism not the final end, due to the fact that the nihilism is overcome by your own martial arts way ?
This way leads you to forget about illusions imposed by the outer world and makes you a new beeing.
Is this the way of nihilism that nietzsche preached? We should this is an open community.

Here an article ,that to overcome yourself , preached by nietsche could be your way to martial arts.

https://epublications.marquette.edu/cgi ... t=phil_fac

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AresKenux
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Re: Is nietzsche claiming a new way to martial arts ?

Post by AresKenux » August 21st, 2018, 2:57 pm

Was just reading an article on Ninpo the other day, and it was speaking of, how the greatest enemy is oneself.
It iterated the idea, that when you have an enemy, and you fight them physically. It is not them you are fighting at that given time, but you are fighting yourself. And the way to improve and overcome oneself is to acknowledge this truth.

Personally, I believe in meeting reality to imagination, to pay possibilities through my imagination, forward into reality. When it come's to knowing yourself, the quickest ways to learn, is through love and war. Learning the ways of love in itself, teaches wisdom, discretion, and respect for whomever it is that you love. Doesn't necessarily have to be lust either.
While learning self through war, also teaches wisdom, discretion, and respect for your enemy. And it doesn't necessarily have to be a physical conflict either.

Due to the nature of love compared to the nature of war, we have ourselves a paradigm of knowledge. In contrast these are opposites, and the way they align is evident. To find the middle ground of what is necessary, is the way of the wise warrior.

Meeting body to mind, is to train for discipline.
Meeting mind to body, is to carry out imagination into reality.

And as for what you propose, overcoming self, is the art of overcoming the mental blocks that restrain you from being free to carry out what you imagine. Every boundary that persists, can be overcome through sheer tenacity of thought and the wrestling of emotions through understanding concepts. But willpower, is often mistaken as something intrinsic to ourselves. Rather willpower, is an idea of the effort behind carrying out what you envision for yourself or for others. It is gained, not something that comes naturally.
There are two kinds of sufferers in this world: those who suffer from a lack of life and those who suffer from an overabundance of life. I've always found myself in the second category. When you come to think of it, almost all human behavior and activity is not essentially any different from animal behavior. The most advanced technologies and craftsmanship bring us, at best, up to the super-chimpanzee level. Actually, the gap between, say, Plato or Nietzsche and the average human is greater than the gap between that chimpanzee and the average human. The realm of the real spirit, the true artist, the saint, the philosopher, is rarely achieved.

Why so few? Why is world history and evolution not stories of progress but rather this endless and futile addition of zeroes. No greater values have developed. Hell, the Greeks 3,000 years ago were just as advanced as we are. So what are these barriers that keep people from reaching anywhere near their real potential? The answer to that can be found in another question, and that's this: Which is the most universal human characteristic - fear or laziness?
- Louis Mackey, Waking Life

Think of Nirvana, what is nirvana, but the moment you realize what the present moment really means?
A releasing of things that you thought you were important, but in actuality were just holding you back from meeting your true potential?

Basic fundamentals are the foundations of who and what you consist of, and who and what you are. Everyone has to start somewhere, and you are only as young as the last time you've changed your mind. And to be honest, building from the foundation of nirvana, into becoming a wise warrior. Someone who can know how to handle any situation as it comes, by either action through forethought, and/or reaction through afterthought. Or even non-action through the process of thoughtful analysis, in knowing that sometimes its best not to interfere with certain people or things.

The wise warrior, is an ideal archetype, not actively chosen by some, but in many ways is the best archetype to be chosen at all times.

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Re: Is nietzsche claiming a new way to martial arts ?

Post by SimpleGuy » August 23rd, 2018, 12:59 pm

Not only this. Even the bhagavad gita , a book read several times by mahatma ghandi, famous for his engagement in peace politics, writes the following verse:

Verse 2.31:
Besides, considering your duty as a warrior, you should not waver. Indeed, for a warrior, there is no better engagement than fighting for upholding of righteousness.

Verse 2.32:
O Parth, happy are the warriors to whom such opportunities to defend righteousness come unsought, opening for them the stairway to the celestial abodes.


Verse 2.33:
If, however, you refuse to fight this righteous war, abandoning your social duty and reputation, you will certainly incur sin.

Verse 2.34:
People will speak of you as a coward and a deserter. For a respectable person, infamy is worse than death.

And doesn't the tao te king talks like :
Chapter 3:

Therefore the holy man when he governs empties the people's hearts but fills their stomachs. He weakens their ambition but strengthens their bones. Always he keeps the people unsophisticated and without desire. He causes that the crafty do not dare to act. When he acts with non-assertion there is nothing ungoverned

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Re: Is nietzsche claiming a new way to martial arts ?

Post by AresKenux » August 23rd, 2018, 4:16 pm

Yes! It's good dude! War is not always without, most times, you find the war waging within. And to win that war, eventually you will develop a sense of self-control in many ways. Essentially finding contentment within, you can practice it to all. And the most righteous war, is by yielding always and preventing harm especially when that harm is not necessary. And to win that war, is to save everyone in the process of saving yourself.

But here is the question!
The war today, most people don't realize it is being waged at this present moment.
How do you help people to realize they're in the midst of warfare, and how to identify the nature of it?
How do you help them to decide how to partake in it or not?
What can we all do, in general as individuals, to save ourselves and each other?
Can anyone be a warrior?
How many types of warrior's are there, what are the common themes?

"Knowing is half the battle."
An artist is an instrument through which the universe reveals itself.
But the warrior is the instrument through which the universe, brings order back to itself.

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SimpleGuy
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Re: Is nietzsche claiming a new way to martial arts ?

Post by SimpleGuy » August 28th, 2018, 12:54 pm

The best way to fight is, to avoid fighting. But if you have to do it , due to obligation, one should consider sun tzu's art of war.

He says in his first chapter:

18. All warfare is based on deception.

19. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem
unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive;
when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we
are far away; when far away, we must make him
believe we are near.

20. Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder,
and crush him.

21. If he is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If
he is in superior strength, evade him.

22. If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate
him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.

23. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest. If his
forces are united, separate them.

24. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear
where you are not expected.

25. These military devices, leading to victory, must not
be divulged beforehand.

But the biggest statagem of the ni ju kun , the 36 strategems, is still 36. Simply quit and avoid the fight.
Peace is the biggest warrior of all warriors.

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SimpleGuy
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Re: Is nietzsche claiming a new way to martial arts ?

Post by SimpleGuy » August 28th, 2018, 12:58 pm

Sorry , the ni ju kun are the japanese 20 rules of shukokai karate. What i intended to say are the san shi liu ji, the 36 strategems, of chinese culture.
Sorry i messed the two up.

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Burning ghost
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Re: Is nietzsche claiming a new way to martial arts ?

Post by Burning ghost » August 28th, 2018, 10:32 pm

To my knowledge Nietzsche had no particular interest in martial arts. Funny thread title though.

Note: We coudl also ask if Sun Tzu was really using warfare as a metaphor of the self ... I believe the Brasilian guy (the witchcraft fellow) made a good profit from reiterating The Art of War when he wrote Warrior of Light (or whatever it was called.)

I believe Bruce Lee wrote quite a bit about martial arts and philosophy. I imagine it is quite an interesting read.
AKA badgerjelly

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SimpleGuy
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Re: Is nietzsche claiming a new way to martial arts ?

Post by SimpleGuy » August 29th, 2018, 12:01 pm

Well perhaps beacause you don't interpretate the animals in nietzsches zaratustra as kung fu animal forms.

—This had Zarathustra spoken to his heart when the sun arose: then looked he inquiringly aloft, for he heard above him the sharp call of his eagle. "Well!" called he upwards, "thus is it pleasing and proper to me. Mine animals are awake, for I am awake.

Mine eagle is awake, and like me honoureth the sun. With eagle-talons doth it grasp at the new light. Ye are my proper animals; I love you.

The eagle style is an antique kung-fu style.

Nietsche was called the man with the slapping feet (der Mann mit den Schellenfüßen).

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Burning ghost
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Re: Is nietzsche claiming a new way to martial arts ?

Post by Burning ghost » August 29th, 2018, 12:10 pm

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight ... you got me!

I don’t interpret Thus Spake Zarathrusta as a martial arts manual nor was I aware of his interest in martial arts.
AKA badgerjelly

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Papus79
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Re: Is nietzsche claiming a new way to martial arts ?

Post by Papus79 » October 1st, 2018, 11:05 pm

In nihilism I suppose you have to focus inward a bit, in the healthy cognitive behavioral therapy sense not the hyperventilating way, to settle yourself in for the long haul with it.

As for martial arts - ten years of Inosanto blend FMA I'd say it's great for staying active, sharp, and coordinated but then again I suppose you could fill in the gap with golf, with the Zen of motorcycle riding, with twisting synthesizer knobs, scratching virtual battle records, playing a guitar, or whatever else.

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Re: Is nietzsche claiming a new way to martial arts ?

Post by AresKenux » October 12th, 2018, 12:59 pm

Papus79 wrote:
October 1st, 2018, 11:05 pm
In nihilism I suppose you have to focus inward a bit, in the healthy cognitive behavioral therapy sense not the hyperventilating way, to settle yourself in for the long haul with it.

As for martial arts - ten years of Inosanto blend FMA I'd say it's great for staying active, sharp, and coordinated but then again I suppose you could fill in the gap with golf, with the Zen of motorcycle riding, with twisting synthesizer knobs, scratching virtual battle records, playing a guitar, or whatever else.
I don't know man. I think something less recreational, albeit not eliminating the aspect of recreation from the formula, but yet more practical. Especially for the sense of security and personal confidence. As well as the responsibility of holding self back with discipline, and being wise in choosing your battles. There is so much more to discovering self through feigned combat and actual combat, hopefully never actual but you never know.

What i am trying to say, is that martial arts or any combat discipline should be a standard as much as the responsibility of having such knowledge and capability. Why I think so? Because it's the nuclear deterrent similar to how seemingly most gun-owning populations have less crime. But those are obviously different debates. I tend to compare this thought with how the Shaolin monks were originally just purists, and eventually have found the need to master their combat abilities. Of course their mistake was getting fully lost in it, and not necessarily remembering the nature of where they were before they "militarized" themselves.

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Re: Is nietzsche claiming a new way to martial arts ?

Post by Papus79 » October 12th, 2018, 8:26 pm

I really think of it all as being in sort of an alchemical class of activity, ie. transmuting your own base metals by enriching what you're made of. While I've enjoyed the martial arts for a long time and I love the coordination that came with them I would say that a lot of things can fill that void and what's left of that void, over the course of your life, changes thus you find different activities that round you out as time goes on.

As far as profoundly changing the way you relate to the world though - I'm not sure that's much of a possibility for most people. Even with martial arts genes are still genes. It's worth doing for competing against yourself and who you'd be if you weren't doing them but, especially being from the US where everyone has guns anyway, sure in the external sense it's a mild deterrent to bullying (as an adult that's rare anyway) but it's not quite cause for overconfidence.

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