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Can Heaven Or Hell Exist If There Is No God?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
tommarcus
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Joined: July 25th, 2018, 10:54 am

Re: Can Heaven Or Hell Exist If There Is No God?

Post by tommarcus » October 5th, 2018, 5:10 am

Greta, I would like to take your "Spirits of the Gut" analogy in a different direction. We desire to eat our fatty food and sweets because they make us feel good. They are definitely a source of pleasure. So following the Epicurean philosophy of not worrying about anything , relax and do what you want, it should be just fine to do what we want.

The problem is, that this philosophy is not consistent with how our bodies were made and is contrary to their purpose. So short term pleasure will be followed by obesity, diabetes, cancer and other diseases and extreme pain. This problem in our three dimensional existence is the same in our total existence in all of our dimensions. We may feel pleasure even happiness in our actions and thoughts in the short term. But if they contradict our total purpose, then eventually our total existence will succumb to pain and suffering. Or we may just find tgat happiness is no obtained without even knowing why. Millions don'tfeel right or satisfied. Something is bothering them.

Not being happy especially when one has all of the material benefits that one could want is nothing short of hell on earth. For many, suicide or drugs become a bad solution. But this is a consequence of acting contrary to our existence. Heaven is existing in accordance to the purpose which we were made. Heaven is a state of existence, not a place. Heaven now is different than Heaven after death because we will have changed after death. Hence the search for our purpose and the understanding of our creation is critical to our happiness or heaven.

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Greta
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Re: Can Heaven Or Hell Exist If There Is No God?

Post by Greta » October 6th, 2018, 1:41 am

Tom, the issue you raise stems from the fact that human progress is much more rapid than our evolution. We are still evolved to stuff our faces rotten when we encounter yummy energy foods because these things were relatively scarce treats in the wild. Certainly the delicious sweet things in life were not available at your local supermarket.

Same with dogs. Why do they scoff large meals in seconds? Why not take their time? They too have evolved compulsions. Our compulsions are more controlled of course, which is basically the point of being human, but our control is far from consistent or universal.

We humans are not evolved to live in sterile little stone boxes atop many other boxes in structures of concrete, plastic and steel that reach to the sky. We humans are evolved to mess around in the wild, gather and killing things, making tools and cookery items. This creates internal conflict.

In a sense, there is no ideal place for us people living in the middle - conditioned to be civilised but evolved to a simpler lifestyle. It's never easy living in transitional times just as it's not easy working in a restructuring organisation. Many are insecure, with morale and trust at a low ebb, and so forth. This is not a time for ideals, but survival.

Given the extraordinary rate of change, that we humans manage to be as happy as we are seems an impressive feat of adaptability.

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