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Aliens as missionaries

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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Re: Aliens as missionaries

Post by Alias » November 30th, 2018, 10:10 pm

Belindi wrote:
November 30th, 2018, 7:58 am
[Christian missionaries are not ...free to interpret scripture...]
They are not , because they act from faith not reason.
Else, they would not be missionaries. Faith is an absolute prerequisite. Faith is what keep them going in the face of physical hardship, loneliness, homesickness, lack of a support structure, foreign food, unaccustomed climate, strange people, incredulity, rejection, ridicule, often illness and sometimes violence. Like the canoeist in the OP, they may be lunatics, but they're determined lunatics.
I recommend Barbara Kingsolver's novel The Poisonwood Bible.

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Re: Aliens as missionaries

Post by ktz » December 1st, 2018, 4:53 pm

Greta wrote:
November 30th, 2018, 1:23 am
ktz wrote:
November 29th, 2018, 11:40 pm

"Excuse me, have you heard of the Church of Latter Day Species?"
LOL ... or Xeno will return to Earth to start the Church of Thetanology. Actually, Scientologists sold me a book about "Dianetics" as a teen. I was walking in the city and responded to someone in the street doing a survey. He led me through this tunnel I'd not seen before and was worried about potential rape or robbery until we emerged into the Scientology HQ building (which I knew nothing about). I can't remember how it happened but I ended up in a room, sitting across a table from some bloke trying to sell me a book. It felt like I wasn't getting out of there unless I bought one of their damn books so I bought the cheapest one - five bucks.

I was very naive and impressionable at the time but within a few pages even I couldn't help but notice their unearned and unfounded chest thumping and elitism. I found it nauseating.
Yikes, that's crazy... I'd suggest you join some kind of class action lawsuit to get your hard-earned five dollars back, but I hear they retain some pretty impressive lawyers for all the accusations of libel and slander they have to file. With all our fictional hypothesizing about aliens here we are probably halfway to emulating L Ron Hubbard ourselves, so let me know if you decide to start a cult since I'd probably be interested in joining. Count me out for the mission to the Sentinelese, though.
You may have a heart of gold, but so does a hard-boiled egg.

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Re: Aliens as missionaries

Post by Greta » December 1st, 2018, 8:42 pm

ktz wrote:
December 1st, 2018, 4:53 pm
With all our fictional hypothesizing about aliens here we are probably halfway to emulating L Ron Hubbard ourselves, so let me know if you decide to start a cult since I'd probably be interested in joining. Count me out for the mission to the Sentinelese, though.
The trouble with starting cults is you have to spend most of your time with people. That rules me out as a cult leader immediately!
h_k_s wrote:
November 30th, 2018, 9:26 pm
Greta wrote:
November 30th, 2018, 6:06 pm
Which leads to the big question about our future (and of the nature of more advanced aliens) - what do more advanced societies look like? Are humans destined to effectively become complex ants in a command system, a situation China appears to be trying to create, with Xi or his successor being the "queen bee"? Is there another way to effectively deal with and coordinate such huge populations? I'm not convinced the chaotic Indian approach would be sustainable for those less resilient than Indians (almost everyone else).

With the rise of fascism it seems that western democracy, led by the US, is in the process of breaking down into a command economies like China's as governments become ever more controlled by companies and ever more controlling and ruthless in their dealings with ordinary citizens.
Intelligent Aliens would have all the same empathies as we have.

They would view us with love and adoration like we do our cats and dogs.

Their love would want to embrace us and protect us and give us care.

And like cat owners they would likely let us have our freedom up to a certain point.

Xi and Trump are poor examples of intelligent anything. They are merely power tyrants.
They are simple people whose main characteristic is a will to rule. It seems to me that political leaders' functions in time will increasingly be delegated to increasingly intelligent machines, as will corporate leaders. In the end they will merely be anthropomorphic figureheads, an interface.

It's hard to say whether the aliens would love us. Some might, some might not, just as some people love spiders, snakes, sharks or crocs while others fear and revile them. I think humans would fit that category - a dangerous creature to be handled with caution.

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Re: Aliens as missionaries

Post by h_k_s » December 1st, 2018, 8:45 pm

Greta wrote:
December 1st, 2018, 8:42 pm
ktz wrote:
December 1st, 2018, 4:53 pm
With all our fictional hypothesizing about aliens here we are probably halfway to emulating L Ron Hubbard ourselves, so let me know if you decide to start a cult since I'd probably be interested in joining. Count me out for the mission to the Sentinelese, though.
The trouble with starting cults is you have to spend most of your time with people. That rules me out as a cult leader immediately!
h_k_s wrote:
November 30th, 2018, 9:26 pm
Intelligent Aliens would have all the same empathies as we have.

They would view us with love and adoration like we do our cats and dogs.

Their love would want to embrace us and protect us and give us care.

And like cat owners they would likely let us have our freedom up to a certain point.

Xi and Trump are poor examples of intelligent anything. They are merely power tyrants.
They are simple people whose main characteristic is a will to rule. It seems to me that political leaders' functions in time will increasingly be delegated to increasingly intelligent machines, as will corporate leaders. In the end they will merely be anthropomorphic figureheads, an interface.
I cannot see a time when machines would take over or be given power.

That would take a major Constitutional amendment.

And we can't even agree to an amendment for Roe V. Wade nor for gun regulation.

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Re: Aliens as missionaries

Post by Greta » December 1st, 2018, 9:00 pm

h_k_s wrote:
December 1st, 2018, 8:45 pm
Greta wrote:
December 1st, 2018, 8:42 pm

The trouble with starting cults is you have to spend most of your time with people. That rules me out as a cult leader immediately!


They are simple people whose main characteristic is a will to rule. It seems to me that political leaders' functions in time will increasingly be delegated to increasingly intelligent machines, as will corporate leaders. In the end they will merely be anthropomorphic figureheads, an interface.
I cannot see a time when machines would take over or be given power.
That's why cardboard cutouts (aka leaders) will continue to be needed until the net of control closes sufficiently.

You'd expect machines to, in time, be seen as better decision makers than humans, not being encumbered by ideology or religion, not subject to human error, and capable of handling complexity and counter-intuitive material in an ever more complex marketplace. I can imagine corporations being headed by machines in the future, and they'll be so good at it that shareholders of other companies will demand their own.

Once governments are surrounded by powerful machine-led companies, and there is just some dumb power-hungry bloke at the top supported by machines, I'm not sure any constitutional material will much matter. By then it would be more akin to Spanish invaders breaking what had been thought to be unbreakable Inca lore.

// crystal ball :)

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Re: Aliens as missionaries

Post by h_k_s » December 1st, 2018, 9:21 pm

Greta wrote:
December 1st, 2018, 9:00 pm
h_k_s wrote:
December 1st, 2018, 8:45 pm


I cannot see a time when machines would take over or be given power.
That's why cardboard cutouts (aka leaders) will continue to be needed until the net of control closes sufficiently.

You'd expect machines to, in time, be seen as better decision makers than humans, not being encumbered by ideology or religion, not subject to human error, and capable of handling complexity and counter-intuitive material in an ever more complex marketplace. I can imagine corporations being headed by machines in the future, and they'll be so good at it that shareholders of other companies will demand their own.

Once governments are surrounded by powerful machine-led companies, and there is just some dumb power-hungry bloke at the top supported by machines, I'm not sure any constitutional material will much matter. By then it would be more akin to Spanish invaders breaking what had been thought to be unbreakable Inca lore.

// crystal ball :)
This sounds like a great plot for a science fiction novel.

If it is a hit then you could be famous like George Orwell or Aldous Huxley.

We were compelled to read them in high school although I did not gain anything from their books.

Your book @Greta seems like it would be much more interesting, sort of like Soilent Green.

And then if they make it into a movie you'll be rich!

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Re: Aliens as missionaries

Post by Greta » December 2nd, 2018, 4:05 am

h_k_s wrote:
December 1st, 2018, 9:21 pm
Greta wrote:
December 1st, 2018, 9:00 pm

That's why cardboard cutouts (aka leaders) will continue to be needed until the net of control closes sufficiently.

You'd expect machines to, in time, be seen as better decision makers than humans, not being encumbered by ideology or religion, not subject to human error, and capable of handling complexity and counter-intuitive material in an ever more complex marketplace. I can imagine corporations being headed by machines in the future, and they'll be so good at it that shareholders of other companies will demand their own.

Once governments are surrounded by powerful machine-led companies, and there is just some dumb power-hungry bloke at the top supported by machines, I'm not sure any constitutional material will much matter. By then it would be more akin to Spanish invaders breaking what had been thought to be unbreakable Inca lore.

// crystal ball :)
This sounds like a great plot for a science fiction novel.
A short story, actually. Currently in draft stage :) The reason why it might make a good plot is because it seems very possible. I always try to make stories realistic unless satirical, fun, brain-bending or the usual interstellar wormhole fudge (being the only known even vaguely almost feasible way of moving between stars). I don't see large multi-generational spacefaring craft carrying thousands of people to be feasible due to human nature. It would be so easy for malcontents to bring down the whole system that the strictest societal controls would be needed, in which case the passengers may ask why bother?

Failing wormholes (and there is zero evidence for them) who or what can feasibly visit us? You'd expect either intelligent machines (or post machines) or dead probes.

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Re: Aliens as missionaries

Post by h_k_s » December 3rd, 2018, 10:31 am

Greta wrote:
December 2nd, 2018, 4:05 am
h_k_s wrote:
December 1st, 2018, 9:21 pm


This sounds like a great plot for a science fiction novel.
A short story, actually. Currently in draft stage :) The reason why it might make a good plot is because it seems very possible. I always try to make stories realistic unless satirical, fun, brain-bending or the usual interstellar wormhole fudge (being the only known even vaguely almost feasible way of moving between stars). I don't see large multi-generational spacefaring craft carrying thousands of people to be feasible due to human nature. It would be so easy for malcontents to bring down the whole system that the strictest societal controls would be needed, in which case the passengers may ask why bother?

Failing wormholes (and there is zero evidence for them) who or what can feasibly visit us? You'd expect either intelligent machines (or post machines) or dead probes.
Hopefully you have seen the movie "Passengers". It is about 5000 colonists rocketing to another solar system.

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Re: Aliens as missionaries

Post by Greta » December 3rd, 2018, 6:02 pm

I haven't seen it, kd, but if it's realistic it will end in tragedy!

Just a thought - what of the other 99.99993% of the world's population? That would be an even stricter selection process than the Jehovah's Witnesses, who say that just 144,000 are allowed in the kingdom of Heaven, which always got me thinking about the poor blighter placed #144,001, who would have missed out by less than a hair's breadth - what a gyp!

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