What is religion?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
User avatar
Hereandnow
Posts: 2837
Joined: July 11th, 2012, 9:16 pm
Favorite Philosopher: the moon and the stars

Re: What is religion?

Post by Hereandnow »

Scruffy Nerf Herder wrote

You're quoting someone else.
It's not a quote. It's an idea. Just read it. N and F had similar views regarding extravagant metaphysical claims and the institutions behind them, which is why I bring them up. You are not being asked to look at the source of the thinking, just the thinking. Many have taken on this argument.

So, what do you think of the substantive question laid before you?
User avatar
Hereandnow
Posts: 2837
Joined: July 11th, 2012, 9:16 pm
Favorite Philosopher: the moon and the stars

Re: What is religion?

Post by Hereandnow »

AmericanKestrel wrote

The quote is mis attributed.
Yes, religion is only a construct for utilitarian purpose. The truly spiritual have often stepped outside of religious doctrine and organization and even condemned them. Jesus, Buddha, the Upanishads, the Sufi saints. It is from their thoughts and experiences that we find the most sublime ideas, and this is the good that comes out of a religion, their association to the tradtion.
Not a quote nor were Foucault and Nietzsche utilitarians, if this is what you mean.

The association of the tradition?? Only a construct?? So, you think that the idea of a construct exhausts the measure of meaning in the religions you mention, and nothing more survives analysis? I mean, what you call truly spiritual has no presence in the doctrines? But this confines the actual conditions of faith and belief in concrete situations that call for them to a mere construct, as if what is truly spiritual lies entirely beyond. But this makes little sense, for it leaves the matter of original inspiration an impossibility: how can one ever understand the spiritual dimensions of being a person if these are removed from living and breathing altogether prior to significant practice and inquiry? When the Buddha sat beneath the Bodhi tree, he did so in a world of sadus; the Abhidamma talks about what is there, in the nature of one prior to liberation and enlightenment. There is "ultimate reality" that stands before the initiate, unrealized. Prior to Jesus, there is a world out of God's grace and thus in sin (see Kierkegaard's take on sin, not Luther's Smalcald account, which is absurd): what is sin and its alienation if not an alienation that stands in the presence of God an ignores God.

You see the point here?: "stepping out of religious doctrine" as you say, must begin with a condition that is possessed by the religious faith out of which one is stepping. Hindus tell us one is always already God, even in the darkest delusion. What IS it that is there, in the fabric of things that gives religion its substance beyond the mere wielding of power to keep people in line? You mention the spiritual, but what is there that is in the world that is present always, already?
Alkis
Posts: 17
Joined: June 21st, 2021, 5:47 pm

Re: What is religion?

Post by Alkis »

Scruffy Nerf Herder wrote: May 27th, 2019, 3:00 am Given that, a religion is a social phenomenon ...
Where from and how is it given? There exist different definitions of "religion" from standard sources. E.g. Oxford LEXICO defines it as "The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods." The Free Dictionary defines it as "The belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers, regarded as creating and governing the universe." Independently on whether these are complete or satisfying, they are quite general and say nothing about a social phenomenon. Although, of course, religion's social aspect is predominant. So, you could say at least, "Assuming that religion is a social phenomenon ...", i.e. examine it from that aspect.
-There are multiple adherents who gather together for the express purpose of sharing in the religion.
-There are standard, accepted texts, which define the beliefs which adherents subscribe to. Within a religion there may not be unanimity on how to understand the texts, and what all are the accepted and possibly rejected texts, but this is enough of a universal phenomenon to warrant inclusion as a criterion.
...
These are further assumptions that restrict religion. They imply that to believe to a religion or in general to be a religious person, I have to attend religious meetings. Otherwise, even if I believe to a Supreme being, I have a religious faith and act based on religious principles, be a spiritual person, etc., all these are not enough to make me a religious person because I don't attend to religious meetings or study religious texts of a given religion, and so on.

You are speaking about religious practices. There is however another part of religion, called religious philosophy.

So, you have to take all that into account when you talk about religion.
User avatar
AmericanKestrel
Posts: 356
Joined: May 22nd, 2021, 6:26 am
Favorite Philosopher: Yagnyavalkya
Location: US

Re: What is religion?

Post by AmericanKestrel »

Hereandnow wrote: June 26th, 2021, 9:37 am
AmericanKestrel wrote

The quote is mis attributed.
Yes, religion is only a construct for utilitarian purpose. The truly spiritual have often stepped outside of religious doctrine and organization and even condemned them. Jesus, Buddha, the Upanishads, the Sufi saints. It is from their thoughts and experiences that we find the most sublime ideas, and this is the good that comes out of a religion, their association to the tradtion.
Not a quote nor were Foucault and Nietzsche utilitarians, if this is what you mean.

The association of the tradition?? Only a construct?? So, you think that the idea of a construct exhausts the measure of meaning in the religions you mention, and nothing more survives analysis? I mean, what you call truly spiritual has no presence in the doctrines? But this confines the actual conditions of faith and belief in concrete situations that call for them to a mere construct, as if what is truly spiritual lies entirely beyond. But this makes little sense, for it leaves the matter of original inspiration an impossibility: how can one ever understand the spiritual dimensions of being a person if these are removed from living and breathing altogether prior to significant practice and inquiry? When the Buddha sat beneath the Bodhi tree, he did so in a world of sadus; the Abhidamma talks about what is there, in the nature of one prior to liberation and enlightenment. There is "ultimate reality" that stands before the initiate, unrealized. Prior to Jesus, there is a world out of God's grace and thus in sin (see Kierkegaard's take on sin, not Luther's Smalcald account, which is absurd): what is sin and its alienation if not an alienation that stands in the presence of God an ignores God.

You see the point here?: "stepping out of religious doctrine" as you say, must begin with a condition that is possessed by the religious faith out of which one is stepping. Hindus tell us one is always already God, even in the darkest delusion. What IS it that is there, in the fabric of things that gives religion its substance beyond the mere wielding of power to keep people in line? You mention the spiritual, but what is there that is in the world that is present always, already?
I don’t deny there are core truths in religion, rather religious texts. Religion also provides a wider base for the training necessary to achieve perfection, to be in the state to realize spirituality. It is just that it is a maze where one can get lost with with. roadmap that is misinterpreted. Ultimately we seek what we need in spirituality, and also the path to it. It can be within or outside of religion.
"The Serpent did not lie."
popeye1945
Posts: 1085
Joined: October 22nd, 2020, 2:22 am
Favorite Philosopher: Alfred North Whitehead
Location: canada

Re: What is religion?

Post by popeye1945 »

God quotation, " Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." Christianity and centuries of burning witches.
User avatar
Scruffy Nerf Herder
Posts: 36
Joined: November 29th, 2016, 3:51 am

Re: What is religion?

Post by Scruffy Nerf Herder »

Hereandnow wrote: June 26th, 2021, 9:12 am
Scruffy Nerf Herder wrote

You're quoting someone else.
It's not a quote. It's an idea. Just read it. N and F had similar views regarding extravagant metaphysical claims and the institutions behind them, which is why I bring them up. You are not being asked to look at the source of the thinking, just the thinking. Many have taken on this argument.

So, what do you think of the substantive question laid before you?
You misunderstand, friend. He quoted me, it said "scruffy nerf herder wrote" but it was something I didn't say.
User avatar
Sculptor1
Posts: 7066
Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: What is religion?

Post by Sculptor1 »

popeye1945 wrote: June 27th, 2021, 3:53 am God quotation, " Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." Christianity and centuries of burning witches.
That part of Exodus is pretty revealing.
In a couple of verses, Gods sets out a hire/loan compensation agteement, and capital punishment for having sex with animals and being a witch.
Exodus 22, 14 ff
Last edited by Sculptor1 on June 27th, 2021, 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Sculptor1
Posts: 7066
Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: What is religion?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Here is why, as a sculptor I can never be a Christian.
Exodus 22
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Tegularius
Posts: 711
Joined: February 6th, 2021, 5:27 am

Re: What is religion?

Post by Tegularius »

Old beliefs whose credibility has long vanished especially when researching its criminal past.
The earth has a skin and that skin has diseases; one of its diseases is called man ... Nietzsche
popeye1945
Posts: 1085
Joined: October 22nd, 2020, 2:22 am
Favorite Philosopher: Alfred North Whitehead
Location: canada

Re: What is religion?

Post by popeye1945 »

Religion is a mythology that has been concertized do to the invention of the printed word. The original intent of any religion was to give an orientation to the public at large. On being concretized it becomes something unnatural, in the sense that unlike reality itself it cannot change. That in my opinion makes it alien to the changing world itself. One could argue that it is an emotional crutch in its break with reality. It no doubt comforts the believer and on an individual level would be harmless. For the individual, it is a bit of a wilful lobotomy in the sense that insists upon faith and absoluteness. On top of all this, it creates divisions even in its own variations of itself. It creates an in-group and out-group which results in conflict with other unchanging absolutes. Most religions have been a historical blood bath and it continues to this day. May Ali cut your head off if you disagree with me--LOL!
Alkis
Posts: 17
Joined: June 21st, 2021, 5:47 pm

Re: What is religion?

Post by Alkis »

I am very disappointed to read replies to the important and classical question "What is religion", from so many people who don't even care to look up the word/term "religion" in a dictionary or encyclopedia and explore (expand) it in some way, but instead instead they "thow" in offhand and slipshod replies that could maybe fit in to another question: "What does religion represent for you?" or something similar.

These people are responsible for the low quality of this forum, which in many occasions can hardly be called "philosopical" ...
popeye1945
Posts: 1085
Joined: October 22nd, 2020, 2:22 am
Favorite Philosopher: Alfred North Whitehead
Location: canada

Re: What is religion?

Post by popeye1945 »

What is religion? Free speculation in the presence of ignorance.
User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 7914
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: What is religion?

Post by LuckyR »

Alkis wrote: July 7th, 2021, 2:25 am I am very disappointed to read replies to the important and classical question "What is religion", from so many people who don't even care to look up the word/term "religion" in a dictionary or encyclopedia and explore (expand) it in some way, but instead instead they "thow" in offhand and slipshod replies that could maybe fit in to another question: "What does religion represent for you?" or something similar.

These people are responsible for the low quality of this forum, which in many occasions can hardly be called "philosopical" ...
That would make sense in the Etymology Forum, but here in the Philosophy Forum, the posts you cited are not only reasonable, but preferable to a lecture on standardized word definitions.
"As usual... it depends."
Karpel Tunnel
Posts: 948
Joined: February 16th, 2018, 11:28 am

Re: What is religion?

Post by Karpel Tunnel »

popeye1945 wrote: July 22nd, 2021, 9:18 pm What is religion? Free speculation in the presence of ignorance.
Odd. There are all those buildings and rituals and social events and practices like contemplation and prayer.
Speculation could be done sitting on a park bench. I have the sense your definition is incomplete. And somehow focused, I would guess on theologians in Abrahamic religions.
Fanman
Posts: 3258
Joined: December 14th, 2011, 9:42 am

Re: What is religion?

Post by Fanman »

Broadly speaking, I think that religion is beliefs made into a system. Being religious is choosing to adhere to that system.
Theists believe, agnostics ponder and atheists analyse. A little bit of each should get us the right answer.
Post Reply

Return to “Philosophy of Religion, Theism and Mythology”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021