Do you think a theist can understand atheist?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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GaryLouisSmith
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Re: Do you think a theist can understand atheist?

Post by GaryLouisSmith »

Felix wrote: October 20th, 2019, 1:43 am
GaryLouisSmith: In Hinduism there is the idea of the sanyasi, sanyasini, a person who abandons family, property and religious ritual and moves on.
Sanyasis are wandering ascetics or priests who have renounced worldly life to dedicate themselves to the pursuit of enlightenment. It's not true they have renounced religious rituals, have no ideology, or contribute nothing to society. They beg for their food (alms) and sleep in temples or outdoors. They used to be accepted and supported in India when the society was more spiritually oriented but I don't know if that's still true in modern India. At any rate, it's absurd to equate them with bohemian intellectuals who would rather not work for a living, which is also an ideology.
In Kathmandu and in Nepal in general there are the ever-present sadhus and yogis (pronounced jogis) who wander around, from village to village. Most people don't like them. They have a bad reputation for practicing dark magic. Little kids are afraid of them and the adults know that they possess powerful mantras that can harm you if you don't give them food and a few coins. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEgPWp8V4oE
Belindi
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Re: Do you think a theist can understand atheist?

Post by Belindi »

You seem to share the prejudice of so many, Marxists and ordinary people alike, that bohemian intellectuals who would rather not work for a living, are a worthless drag on society.
Most people would rather not work for a living, or at least not do much work. Intellectuals, in rags, suits, jeans ,are good for society and are a presence in any free civilisation.
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Felix
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Re: Do you think a theist can understand atheist?

Post by Felix »

GaryLouisSmith: You seem to share the prejudice of so many, Marxists and ordinary people alike, that bohemian intellectuals who would rather not work for a living, are a worthless drag on society.
I'm not really a fan of modern society, it's mostly a round trip fare to nowhere, and since much work in society is soul destroying, the wish to avoid it is understandable. But I think that if one is living in society, one should contribute what one can.
GaryLouisSmith: I support any political party that will benefit our group the most. That is, of course, mainly the Democrats in America.
That's certainly no longer true, the social safety net is being dismantled, there are full time Google employees sleeping in their cars because they can't afford the local rents. The days of Kerouac's "On the Road" or Ken Kesey and the Merry Pranksters magic bus are ancient history, and there seems to be less tolerance than ever for vagrant dreamers.
GaryLouisSmith: They (sadhus) have a bad reputation for practicing dark magic. Little kids are afraid of them and the adults know that they possess powerful mantras that can harm you if you don't give them food and a few coins.
Proves my point, when people are giving out of fear rather than love, religion has been supplanted by dull superstition.
"We do not see things as they are; we see things as we are." - Anaïs Nin
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Sculptor1
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Re: Do you think a theist can understand atheist?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Felix wrote: October 20th, 2019, 2:08 pm That's certainly no longer true, the social safety net is being dismantled, there are full time Google employees sleeping in their cars because they can't afford the local rents. The days of Kerouac's "On the Road" or Ken Kesey and the Merry Pranksters magic bus are ancient history, and there seems to be less tolerance than ever for vagrant dreamers.
Sadly true.
Anyone who knows a young person struggling to make a life is painfully aware of this.
Despite world wealth being extremely greater than it has ever been.
Despite massive advances in labour saving devices across the board, with white goods costs dropping, and many other systems which should make life easier for billions, what we have is growing inequality, greed, homelessness and poverty.

What is most shocking is not only the passive compliance with a damaging economic theory, but classes of people who are clearly being damaged by it, about to be damaged by it, or in a situation where the system has utterly failed their towns and cities, holding themselves IN SUPPORT of this idiotic change of affairs by swallowing the lies that more inequality is somehow "fair".
Many contributors on this Forum are willing participants in their own oppression.
GaryLouisSmith
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Re: Do you think a theist can understand atheist?

Post by GaryLouisSmith »

Felix wrote: October 20th, 2019, 2:08 pm
GaryLouisSmith: You seem to share the prejudice of so many, Marxists and ordinary people alike, that bohemian intellectuals who would rather not work for a living, are a worthless drag on society.
I'm not really a fan of modern society, it's mostly a round trip fare to nowhere, and since much work in society is soul destroying, the wish to avoid it is understandable. But I think that if one is living in society, one should contribute what one can.
GaryLouisSmith: I support any political party that will benefit our group the most. That is, of course, mainly the Democrats in America.
That's certainly no longer true, the social safety net is being dismantled, there are full time Google employees sleeping in their cars because they can't afford the local rents. The days of Kerouac's "On the Road" or Ken Kesey and the Merry Pranksters magic bus are ancient history, and there seems to be less tolerance than ever for vagrant dreamers.
GaryLouisSmith: They (sadhus) have a bad reputation for practicing dark magic. Little kids are afraid of them and the adults know that they possess powerful mantras that can harm you if you don't give them food and a few coins.
Proves my point, when people are giving out of fear rather than love, religion has been supplanted by dull superstition.
If you think religion ever was grounded in love, then you know nothing of the history of religion. The essence of religion has always been dread and the allure of that. https://www2.kenyon.edu/Depts/Religion/ ... 1/Otto.htm

I don't know about Europe, but I do know that America is still full of vagrant dreamers.
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Felix
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Re: Do you think a theist can understand atheist?

Post by Felix »

If you think religion ever was grounded in love...
My comment was regarding giving alms to sadhus or beggars. If it's done out of fear or anxiety, I don't see anything religious about it. I realize that people take to religion for all sorts of reasons, but I have no interest in crass religious customs.
I do know that America is still full of vagrant dreamers.
They can't be that common, being broke is very expensive these days.
"We do not see things as they are; we see things as we are." - Anaïs Nin
GaryLouisSmith
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Re: Do you think a theist can understand atheist?

Post by GaryLouisSmith »

Felix wrote: October 21st, 2019, 2:48 am
If you think religion ever was grounded in love...
My comment was regarding giving alms to sadhus or beggars. If it's done out of fear or anxiety, I don't see anything religious about it. I realize that people take to religion for all sorts of reasons, but I have no interest in crass religious customs.
I do know that America is still full of vagrant dreamers.
They can't be that common, being broke is very expensive these days.
Vagrant dreamers today survive the same way they always have. Sex for food and a place to sleep. It's very common.
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Felix
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Re: Do you think a theist can understand atheist?

Post by Felix »

Well Gary, in your book it seems to be pretty easy to qualify for the title of "philosopher," just about any idle dreamer or schizophrenic meets the requirements.
"We do not see things as they are; we see things as we are." - Anaïs Nin
GaryLouisSmith
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Re: Do you think a theist can understand atheist?

Post by GaryLouisSmith »

Felix wrote: October 21st, 2019, 2:55 pm Well Gary, in your book it seems to be pretty easy to qualify for the title of "philosopher," just about any idle dreamer or schizophrenic meets the requirements.
That certainly came out of nowhere. How did you come up with that?
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Felix
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Re: Do you think a theist can understand atheist?

Post by Felix »

Felix: Well Gary, in your book it seems to be pretty easy to qualify for the title of "philosopher," just about any idle dreamer or schizophrenic meets the requirements.

GaryLouisSmith: That certainly came out of nowhere. How did you come up with that?
Perhaps just my personal bias. I consider philosophy to be an aid to understand life (not just intellectually) and fulfill one's potential, and yours seems to be decorative rather than functional.
"We do not see things as they are; we see things as we are." - Anaïs Nin
GaryLouisSmith
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Re: Do you think a theist can understand atheist?

Post by GaryLouisSmith »

Felix wrote: October 22nd, 2019, 4:36 pm
Felix: Well Gary, in your book it seems to be pretty easy to qualify for the title of "philosopher," just about any idle dreamer or schizophrenic meets the requirements.

GaryLouisSmith: That certainly came out of nowhere. How did you come up with that?
Perhaps just my personal bias. I consider philosophy to be an aid to understand life (not just intellectually) and fulfill one's potential, and yours seems to be decorative rather than functional.
Mine is traditional. I ask the traditional questions (which aren't many). And I consider the traditional answers (which again aren't many.) Your view of philosophy seems to me to be self-help psychology, which I have nothing against, but it isn't what philosophy traditionally has been.
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Felix
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Re: Do you think a theist can understand atheist?

Post by Felix »

Your view of philosophy seems to me to be self-help psychology, which I have nothing against, but it isn't what philosophy traditionally has been.
The meaning and purpose of life is certainly a prominent philosophical subject, and a focus of existential philosophers such as Sartre and Kierkegaard.
"We do not see things as they are; we see things as we are." - Anaïs Nin
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Re: Do you think a theist can understand atheist?

Post by popeye1945 »

Do you think a theist can understand an atheist, certainly, I only disbelieve in one more god than you do. :)
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