Could Jesus have been merely a good moral philosopher?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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Sculptor1
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Re: Could Jesus have been merely a good moral philosopher?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Greta wrote: October 24th, 2019, 12:03 am What do you do? Even today, most people hold obviously superstitious beliefs. It's not as though there's a great movement towards reason and rationality at the moment. I can't help feeling that humans have peaked in terms of reason and rational thinking and are on the verge of handing the "baton" to intelligent machines. Still, judging broad sweeps of history when we live for such a short time, in not easy.
Machines are only as good as their programming and their data.
Its as bad as it can be; stupid machines trusted for their reliability but coded by morons.
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detail
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Re: Could Jesus have been merely a good moral philosopher?

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If how could you explain matthew 10:34:

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

This no real peaceful message.
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Mark1955
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Re: Could Jesus have been merely a good moral philosopher?

Post by Mark1955 »

Sculptor1 wrote: October 23rd, 2019, 5:52 pmChristian intolerance, failure to honour the emperor. Christianity was for 100's of years incompatible with civil society, until Constantine figured out the power of ein volk, ein reich, ein gott.
I think you missed the most important bit - Ein Fuhrer.
If you think you know the answer you probably don't understand the question.
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Sculptor1
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Re: Could Jesus have been merely a good moral philosopher?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Mark1955 wrote: October 25th, 2019, 11:50 am
Sculptor1 wrote: October 23rd, 2019, 5:52 pmChristian intolerance, failure to honour the emperor. Christianity was for 100's of years incompatible with civil society, until Constantine figured out the power of ein volk, ein reich, ein gott.
I think you missed the most important bit - Ein Fuhrer.
Indeed. There was a reason I switched to German.
Thanks for stating the obvious.
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Sy Borg
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Re: Could Jesus have been merely a good moral philosopher?

Post by Sy Borg »

I do not believe that the historical figure of Jesus existed. There are many such moral Übermenschen (to keep the German theme going) in the legends of many nations. Jesus's tale is told again and again. Jesus is a special type of person (along with Buddha, Confucius, Horus, Osiris, etc).

Wiki article, The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World ... ed_Saviors

The law of averages does suggest that a small minority of people will appear in history who will be of superior intelligence and the very most exemplary character. By the same token, a small proportion will be "the worst of the worst" of us. Thanks to humans' evolved survival instincts and negativity bias, the worst of us tend to gain much more publicity.

I suspect that God is also an ideal, the cohered mind of a galaxy that may occur in the very far future (to Milkromeda or whatever). At this stage, chaos and chance still largely rule the cosmos. Maybe in a few hundred billion years ...
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Mark1955
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Re: Could Jesus have been merely a good moral philosopher?

Post by Mark1955 »

Greta wrote: October 30th, 2019, 2:33 amI do not believe that the historical figure of Jesus existed.
I suspect he existed, a bit of, in modern terms, a lefty anti-establishmentarian pacifist, preaching the personal route to god and passive resistance, if any, to Rome. He may also have been a bit in favour of women's lib, but when his doctrines got taken on by the Emperor Constantine it had to be imperialised and Romanised so in comes authoritarian structures and out go women. Everything after that is about the authority of the patriarchs and pontiffs.
If you think you know the answer you probably don't understand the question.
anonymous66
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Re: Could Jesus have been merely a good moral philosopher?

Post by anonymous66 »

Clay_10
Have you ever read anything by Don Cupitt? He is a priest in the Anglican church and was part of the Jesus Seminar ( https://www.westarinstitute.org/projec ... -seminar/ )- a Seminar that was made up of a bunch of scholars whose job it was to determine what in the NT Bible could be determined to be authentic. Their findings? "Among the findings is that, in the judgment of the Jesus Seminar Fellows, about 18 percent of the sayings and 16 percent of the deeds attributed to Jesus in the gospels are authentic."

Don Cupitt argues that Jesus was a moral teacher and radical secular humanistic philosopher whose main message was one in which we are called upon to practice a radical forgiveness (love your enemies- turn the other check- walk the extra mile, etc). Cupitt wrote about his view in a book called Jesus and Philosophy. According to Cupitt- Christianity is humanistic- it's about improving the life of humans. You can hear Cupitt talk about his ideas here: https://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/1/a/7/1a788 ... 4b911f181 .

So, like LuckyR said, another possibility is that Jesus wasn't divine, and never claimed to be- it's just that after he died, people told stories about him- stories in which the storytellers said he claimed to be divine.
Haicoway
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Re: Could Jesus have been merely a good moral philosopher?

Post by Haicoway »

Does anyone know where, when and how the notion of Hell came up in Christianity? If I could be more convinced there isn't one, I would be less afraid of dying.
anonymous66
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Re: Could Jesus have been merely a good moral philosopher?

Post by anonymous66 »

@Haicoway
Have you ever looked into the idea of Universal Reconciliation or Universal Salvation? Many believe that the Bible teaches that everyone is saved and will be in heaven (although some believe it could be a painful process- and others believe it is not).
Haicoway
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Re: Could Jesus have been merely a good moral philosopher?

Post by Haicoway »

No I haven't, but I will, thank you!
Haicoway
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Re: Could Jesus have been merely a good moral philosopher?

Post by Haicoway »

A little obliqueness here: When I met the woman who is the closest person to me, she told me she was an angel sent by my wife, who had died. I accepted the declaration without requiring anything outside of understanding.

Later I told her I thought the Internet could be the Second Coming of Christ, because Jesus supposedly said he would come back, like a thief in the night, not as a man, but in an unrecognizable form, nevertheless still in a service-to-others orientation. My angel said she thought that, too, only she calls the Internet the Messiah. She is Israeli and from Jerusalem.

In keeping with the theme, my angel posts sermons on YouTubes about matters of agape love, such as the importance of human connection, forgiveness, and even more terrestrial topics, such as the cruelty of body shaming. She feels herself to be an angel of the Messiah. And she is finishing up getting her PhD in clinical psychology for the credential to host a TV show as a psychologist, to help people.

When I mention ideas like these people say I need to go to a psychiatrist, that I am a lunatic. And I do see a highly regarded psychiatrist, actually, helping me cope with the grief of having lost my wife. I have asked him his diagnosis of me, and he says I’m somewhat narcissistic, but I don’t fit any DSM. He doesn’t think I am crazy.

I wonder what you think. I think since more than three quarters of people in the USA believe in angels, is my notion any crazier, or is it potentially even more on target, since my angel actually performs the work of an angel? Is my notion of the Second Coming any crazier than the typical notion of believers?

I see the human brain somewhat as browser. When it looks at bunch of atoms that it calls a tree, other browsers in other heads see the image slightly differently because it is a representation in the brain, not a tree itself. And if a brain wants to color images a little with imagination, does that disqualify the representation?
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Terrapin Station
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Re: Could Jesus have been merely a good moral philosopher?

Post by Terrapin Station »

He'd have to be a good moral philosopher for that, so no. ;-)
Darshan
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Re: Could Jesus have been merely a good moral philosopher?

Post by Darshan »

Earthellism a philosophy that helps explain Christianity and Judaism sees Jesus's journey here on earthell as a foundation of a great and loving religion.
Jesus as the son of God was sent here to earthell from Heaven to live among us and teach us the way of God. He was tortured and murdered for teaching us about God and Jesus returned to Heaven to be with God. Earthellism sees logic in this religious view of Jesus and sees him as much more than a good moral philosopher.
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Jorgen Pallesen
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Re: Could Jesus have been merely a good moral philosopher?

Post by Jorgen Pallesen »

There are some years that are unaccounted for in his youth, i believe he was in India and learn the ways of hinduism, since he made similar "miracles" as in hindu scriptures, walked on water, healed the sick, awakened the dead, etc.

Actually there was many that did miracles, even aspirering Roman emperors.

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Gertie
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Re: Could Jesus have been merely a good moral philosopher?

Post by Gertie »

I think it's nigh impossible to know much about the actual Jesus now, but I think he was probably an apocalyptic prophet, proclaiming the imminent arrival of Yahweh's kingdom on earth and telling people they'd better shape up sharpish.

If you view the gist of his teachings in terms of that imminent transformation of the world, when the tables will be turned on the Roman oppressors, the first will be last, give no thought for the morrow, for family or material possessions, it looks less like a philosophy than a warning.

That message was transformed after his prophecy failed to materialise and he was executed by the authorities. The gospels and letters of the Bible aren't biographies as we'd think of them, they are evangelisinging evolving theology, illustrating the revisionism of who Jesus was and what he meant in the light of his death.
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