Could Jesus have been merely a good moral philosopher?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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Sculptor1
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Re: Could Jesus have been merely a good moral philosopher?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Arjen wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 8:25 am
Sculptor1 wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 8:23 am

I've no idea what you are in about now.
Satanist world leaders! :P
I always thought you were crazy.
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Sculptor1
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Re: Could Jesus have been merely a good moral philosopher?

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Jack D Ripper wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 11:58 am
Sculptor1 wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 6:43 am

Did you know that stoning was intended to be fatal? So a sentence of stoning was not only a death sentence but an excuse for a bit of public ultra-violence.
Yes. What did you think I meant when I used the phrase "method of execution"?
You seemed to be drawing a distinction between hanging and stoning as if one were lesser than the other.
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Re: Could Jesus have been merely a good moral philosopher?

Post by Jack D Ripper »

Sculptor1 wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 1:16 pm
Jack D Ripper wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 11:58 am

Yes. What did you think I meant when I used the phrase "method of execution"?
You seemed to be drawing a distinction between hanging and stoning as if one were lesser than the other.
I was just saying that the one was following the spirit of the law without following the letter of the law. I did not say which was lesser, though I do think I would rather be hanged by a competent hangman than be stoned, as I expect death would likely be quicker. Of course, one can be hanged in a way to try to draw out the death, so which would be worse would vary according to the exact particulars of each individual situation. But I do not think stoning was intended to be quick and painless, nor do I expect that it would generally be so.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence." - David Hume
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Sy Borg
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Re: Could Jesus have been merely a good moral philosopher?

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Arjen wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 8:25 am
Sculptor1 wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 8:23 am I've no idea what you are in about now.
Satanist world leaders! :P
It's hilarious. Satanism. Child-killing. They really went for broke. It's not as though they could have come up with a more damning tale. And to see Trump - the epitome of selfishness - as the cult leader and saviour shows us how parts of America can no longer distinguish reality from science fiction.

Another consideration. What's wrong with Satanism? https://www.huckmag.com/art-and-culture ... -of-satan/

It seems to me that Satanists these days are less violent, hate-filled, aggressive, dishonest, divisive and destructive than many so-called Christians.

And, as for child abuse, we also need look no further than churches for many examples. It seems that evangelical fundamentalist Christians have lost the idea of "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone". Why? Because churches have become ever less spiritual since they became involved with Roman politics two thousand years ago. Today, religions are largely tribes based on sociality and politics, to which people swear allegiance.

And they still claim tax-free status.
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Re: Could Jesus have been merely a good moral philosopher?

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I do know that these things exist, but I think most people had no clue as to the reality of it. Epstein should be a wake up call. Biden's laptop shows evidence and evidence of a subpoena concerning this from the FBI for him. There is quite damning stuff about Clinton as well.

Ofcourse all of you know my thing about the CCP and media manipulation. We did see the media backing both Joe and Hillary all the way. And that is a red flag, given that Xitler's rise to power was strongly related to the human trafficking of the triades and Dongs.

Just because that qanon is nuts, doesn't mean everything is baseless. But it is hard to seoerate fact from fiction when people benefit from pretending it is just a conspiracy theory.
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Re: Could Jesus have been merely a good moral philosopher?

Post by Jack D Ripper »

Arjen wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 7:13 am...

@Jack D Ripper
I know that it is a death sentence, but Jesus made people reconsider and then nobody threw a rock. It is a huge liberal moment: What should be punished by law and what should not. Or: Is as harsh a punishment as that needed?
It may be a liberal moment, but it is inconsistent with the words of Jesus in Matthew 5. The simple fact is, Jesus, as depicted in the BIble, is a total hypocrite. If Jesus has done as he said should be done in Matthew 5, he would have behaved more like that supposedly Chinese version of the story that you presented. Not following the law is the opposite of what Jesus clearly advocates in Matthew 5.

This is one example of many in the Bible where one gets contradictory positions, which helps explain why there are so many different denominations of Christians who vehemently disagree with each other, while claiming that their version is supported by the Bible.

This also shows that the Bible is crap as a guide to life. Which of the contradictory stories are you going to follow?
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence." - David Hume
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Re: Could Jesus have been merely a good moral philosopher?

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Hey, nobody told Jezus about dems and reps! He was just winging it! And what's wrong with learning from all sides, right?

Mesotes, after all!
The saying that what is true in theory is not always true in practice, means that the theory is wrong!
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Re: Could Jesus have been merely a good moral philosopher?

Post by Jack D Ripper »

Greta wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 3:54 pm
Arjen wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 8:25 am
Satanist world leaders! :P
It's hilarious. Satanism. Child-killing. They really went for broke. It's not as though they could have come up with a more damning tale. And to see Trump - the epitome of selfishness - as the cult leader and saviour shows us how parts of America can no longer distinguish reality from science fiction.

...

What do you mean, "no longer"? When have these parts of America ever shown an ability to distinguish reality from fiction? Indeed, religion depends on people being unable to distinguish reality from fantasy.

With pizzagate (for those who don't know what "pizzagate" is, a simple online search is all you need to do), it is an especially nice touch that the alleged activities take place in the basement of a building that does not have a basement. It is as if the inventor of the lie wanted to provide the maximum amount of falsehood in the story. No matter how much falsehood there is in a story, people believe it anyway.

Human stupidity is limitless.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence." - David Hume
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Sculptor1
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Re: Could Jesus have been merely a good moral philosopher?

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Moron attacks a pizza shop.
C*nt cuts off a teacher's head.

How the hell have humans got this far?
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Re: Could Jesus have been merely a good moral philosopher?

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It has always been like this. We had a good time for 75 years, byt we ket our guard down.

The orice of freedom is eternal vigilance.
The saying that what is true in theory is not always true in practice, means that the theory is wrong!
~Immanuel Kant
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Re: Could Jesus have been merely a good moral philosopher?

Post by LuckyR »

Jack D Ripper wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 4:27 pm
Greta wrote: October 22nd, 2020, 3:54 pm
It's hilarious. Satanism. Child-killing. They really went for broke. It's not as though they could have come up with a more damning tale. And to see Trump - the epitome of selfishness - as the cult leader and saviour shows us how parts of America can no longer distinguish reality from science fiction.

...

What do you mean, "no longer"? When have these parts of America ever shown an ability to distinguish reality from fiction? Indeed, religion depends on people being unable to distinguish reality from fantasy.

With pizzagate (for those who don't know what "pizzagate" is, a simple online search is all you need to do), it is an especially nice touch that the alleged activities take place in the basement of a building that does not have a basement. It is as if the inventor of the lie wanted to provide the maximum amount of falsehood in the story. No matter how much falsehood there is in a story, people believe it anyway.

Human stupidity is limitless.
Well, if 99.999% of people can figure something out, then 0.001% of folks can't. Which is about 3310 people in the US.
"As usual... it depends."
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Re: Could Jesus have been merely a good moral philosopher?

Post by Arjen »

LuckyR wrote: Well, if 99.999% of people can figure something out, then 0.001% of folks can't. Which is about 3310 people in the US.
In my experience it is normally the 99.999% that can't figure things out....
Just saying.
The saying that what is true in theory is not always true in practice, means that the theory is wrong!
~Immanuel Kant
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Re: Could Jesus have been merely a good moral philosopher?

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Clay_10 wrote: October 9th, 2019, 12:28 pm Many people hold the position that Jesus was not divine, but also assert that he was a good man and good moral philosopher. I believe that to be contradictory in nature because of the simple fact that he claimed divinity.

Objectively and historically, Jesus preached many concepts that most would consider right or just regardless of the validity of religion.

Obviously, you can take logical assertions from any imperfect man and they will remain true regardless of the credentials of the man saying them. However, I’m asking about him as a person and his message alltogether. I so often hear that Jesus was not divine but was simply a good moral teacher and philosopher and I don’t understand it.

Jesus claimed divinity and many of his teachings were based on the fact that he was the “son of god” and “divine in nature”. With that, I would say that if he was not divine then he cannot be a good moral teacher. I agree with C.S. Lewis’s “lord, liar, lunatic” argument. Once Jesus bases the credibility and basis for his claims to be that he is divine in nature, there seem to be only 3 logical conclusions:
1. Jesus is divine and his teachings are of the utmost importance, and should be worshipped accordingly.
2. Jesus lied about being divine and his teachings were rooted in falsehood and deception.
3. Jesus is not divine but believed he was. Therefore, is mentally unstable and his claims and teachings are a byproduct of a crazy man.

If we can agree that Jesus claimed divinity, I don’t see how there can be any other logical conclusions other than the 3 listed above that C.S. Lewis made, yet I still hear quite often that Jesus was not divine but simply a good man and good moral teacher. Am I missing something or is this issue pretty cut and dry?
Many hold the position, which I endorse, that the character named Jesus in Christian literature didn't even exist. So that should settle any matters concerning the accounts of his actions. But if one ignored this and assumed the character's actions were real, his message and moral teachings wouldn't stand above the moral teaching of many other religious characters from his time, before and after. Perhaps the Pauline theology added a bit of a different flavor by extending Messianic redemption to the whole of humanity, not only the Jews.
The wise are instructed by reason, average minds by experience, the stupid by necessity and the brute by instinct.
― Marcus Tullius Cicero
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Re: Could Jesus have been merely a good moral philosopher?

Post by LuckyR »

Arjen wrote: October 25th, 2020, 12:09 pm
LuckyR wrote: Well, if 99.999% of people can figure something out, then 0.001% of folks can't. Which is about 3310 people in the US.
In my experience it is normally the 99.999% that can't figure things out....
Just saying.
What are you saying about the 99.999%?
"As usual... it depends."
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Sy Borg
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Re: Could Jesus have been merely a good moral philosopher?

Post by Sy Borg »

LuckyR wrote: October 28th, 2020, 2:26 am
Arjen wrote: October 25th, 2020, 12:09 pm
In my experience it is normally the 99.999% that can't figure things out....
Just saying.
What are you saying about the 99.999%?
That they miss a fair bit, though I'd increase that percentage by 0.001 :)
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