God is dying. Will he be dead?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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Joshua10
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Re: God is dying. Will he be dead?

Post by Joshua10 »

When is mainstream science going to officially announce that their single Big Bang theory is incorrect do you think?

There are going to be a lot of people rattled by that announcement.

You can’t trust secular science because it’s nonsense.

If you let secular scientists loose with science it will all go belly up and it has.
Joshua10
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Re: God is dying. Will he be dead?

Post by Joshua10 »

EM adopts a logic of 0,0…0,1…1,0…1,1 and not 0,1…1,0

Secular Scientist needs to wake up and accept what nature says and stop pretending they know better.

You can’t argue with nature……well you can ….but you will be made to look a fool every time.
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Sy Borg
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Re: God is dying. Will he be dead?

Post by Sy Borg »

Joshua10 wrote: July 6th, 2022, 2:37 am When is mainstream science going to officially announce that their single Big Bang theory is incorrect do you think?

There are going to be a lot of people rattled by that announcement.

You can’t trust secular science because it’s nonsense.

If you let secular scientists loose with science it will all go belly up and it has.
And what you offer as an alternative is a 2,000 year-old book of myths.

If scientists find that the (badly named) Big Bang did not happen as they thought, then knowledge will progress. Scientists would be more excited about a study that challenged BB assumptions than rattled. You theists always assume that everyone else is just like you, desperately clinging to dogma. Most scientists are just interested in learning more about how nature works. It is extremely hard to get a job as a scientist. There is a great deal of competition, and only those who are passionately fascinated by their subject matter make it. So they are driven by curiosity, not dogma, just seeking to better understand the field that fires their interest.

Sure, you can make up silly faux-science claims to fight for "your side", because if can undermine science in your mind, then the scientific method's disproving of many Biblical claims can be dismissed and then you have a chance at living eternally in Heaven. So you are furiously defending your afterlife, prepared to make up any old thing to get the job done, never mind ethics.

Have your afterlife. Maybe there's some other dimensions or some other funky phenomena that has not been detected by researchers? But you might as well drop your EM angle. Science does not claim that everyone is doomed to oblivion, just that much of the evidence points to that, so far. Then again, if oblivion is so bad, why do we crave it every night?
Joshua10
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Re: God is dying. Will he be dead?

Post by Joshua10 »

Sy Borg wrote: July 6th, 2022, 4:19 am
Joshua10 wrote: July 6th, 2022, 2:37 am When is mainstream science going to officially announce that their single Big Bang theory is incorrect do you think?

There are going to be a lot of people rattled by that announcement.

You can’t trust secular science because it’s nonsense.

If you let secular scientists loose with science it will all go belly up and it has.
And what you offer as an alternative is a 2,000 year-old book of myths.

If scientists find that the (badly named) Big Bang did not happen as they thought, then knowledge will progress. Scientists would be more excited about a study that challenged BB assumptions than rattled. You theists always assume that everyone else is just like you, desperately clinging to dogma. Most scientists are just interested in learning more about how nature works. It is extremely hard to get a job as a scientist. There is a great deal of competition, and only those who are passionately fascinated by their subject matter make it. So they are driven by curiosity, not dogma, just seeking to better understand the field that fires their interest.

Sure, you can make up silly faux-science claims to fight for "your side", because if can undermine science in your mind, then the scientific method's disproving of many Biblical claims can be dismissed and then you have a chance at living eternally in Heaven. So you are furiously defending your afterlife, prepared to make up any old thing to get the job done, never mind ethics.

Have your afterlife. Maybe there's some other dimensions or some other funky phenomena that has not been detected by researchers? But you might as well drop your EM angle. Science does not claim that everyone is doomed to oblivion, just that much of the evidence points to that, so far. Then again, if oblivion is so bad, why do we crave it every night?
What are you having a go at me for?

You need to direct all your frustrations at nature.

It’s nature that disagrees with Atheistic science.

What is the point of our pursuing a science that nature disagrees with?
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Greatest I am
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Re: God is dying. Will he be dead?

Post by Greatest I am »

Joshua10 wrote: July 2nd, 2022, 2:09 am
Greatest I am wrote: July 1st, 2022, 11:51 am
Joshua10 wrote: July 1st, 2022, 8:55 am
Greatest I am wrote: June 30th, 2022, 8:42 pm

I find fault with the immorality of the savior you describe.

Most moral people do.

I give this to Christians to try to make them think morals.

On Jesus dying for Christians. Try to think in a moral way.

It takes quite an inflated ego to think a god would actually die for us, after condemning us unjustly in the first place.

Christians have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil they make Jesus to keep their feel good get out of hell free card.

It is a lie, first and foremost, because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.

Christians also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

There is no way that Christians would teach their children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments and here you are promoting doing just that.

Jesus is just a smidge less immoral than his demiurge genocidal father, and here you are trying to put him as low in moral fiber as Yahweh. Tsk tsk.

Regards
DL
My understanding is that the christian scriptures claim that Jesus gave up his own life of his own choice.He chose to give it up and take the blame for all atrocities carried out by man/woman, past/future, out of love.

The claim being he laid down his life freely and took his life back again.

Nobody took his life from him therefore because nobody had the power to do this.

Matthew 52 to 54
God insured Jesus had a killer when he chose to have him murdered instead of doing the right thing and stepping up himself.

For Jesus to ask us to sin to be saved is immnoral.

Do try to think ot the immorality in this messianic concept that immorally punishes the innocent instead of the guilty.

Most Christians do not care about the immorality of their moral tenets but you might.

Most are moral cowards and refuse to judge.

Regards
DL
The Christian scriptures state that Jesus said “The Father and I are one” …John 10:30….and so God did step up himself,did he not?
I judge on the morals and not various possibilities of fantasy.

If you want to believe in the immoral God because of supernatural belief, that foolishness and immorality is on you.

Go ahead and change the understanding of the story to the father dying.

It maters not with immoral myths.

Regards
DL
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Greatest I am
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Re: God is dying. Will he be dead?

Post by Greatest I am »

Joshua10 wrote: July 2nd, 2022, 8:55 am
You don’t know that….you can only hope it’s a no …because you ain’t got definitive proof to the contrary …..all you have is a hopeful belief like everyone else.

It makes perfect sense to a lot of people even if you ain’t figured it out yet.
There is no way that you can make moral sense out of today's interpretation of Christianity.

That is why you did not argue against my immoral points.

If we have not figured things out like you have, you should be able to argue the moral aspects of Christianity and teach us.

Do you have what it takes?

If you do buddy, show the good of punishing the innocent instead of the guilty.

Regards
DL
Joshua10
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Re: God is dying. Will he be dead?

Post by Joshua10 »

Why would we want to drop the EM angle when it is the foundation for the operation of the universe at the macro/micro levels?

As we are embroiled within the universe it is also responsible for our physical and mental operations.

This electromechanical process I.e. natures process is based upon 0,0…0,1…1,0…1,1 logic as confirmed by the magnetic force interactions of NN….NS….SN….SS.

PERIOD.
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Greatest I am
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Re: God is dying. Will he be dead?

Post by Greatest I am »

I have no idea of what you are talking about, and science only partially knows how the universe works.

That has nothing to do with my moral question.

Perhaps your reply was meant for another.

Regards
DL
Joshua10
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Re: God is dying. Will he be dead?

Post by Joshua10 »

Greatest I am wrote: July 6th, 2022, 10:38 am I have no idea of what you are talking about, and science only partially knows how the universe works.

That has nothing to do with my moral question.

Perhaps your reply was meant for another.

Regards
DL
Sorry, my last point was meant for Sy Borg,

On your morals point …what actually is your point? You are trying to blame someone who doesn’t exist in your hopeful belief system.They need to exist before you can blame them.

Presumably,you already accept that man is responsible for all the atrocities throughout history, so why would introducing a God change that?
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Greatest I am
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Re: God is dying. Will he be dead?

Post by Greatest I am »

Joshua10 wrote: July 7th, 2022, 2:32 am
Greatest I am wrote: July 6th, 2022, 10:38 am I have no idea of what you are talking about, and science only partially knows how the universe works.

That has nothing to do with my moral question.

Perhaps your reply was meant for another.

Regards
DL
Sorry, my last point was meant for Sy Borg,

On your morals point …what actually is your point? You are trying to blame someone who doesn’t exist in your hopeful belief system.They need to exist before you can blame them.

Presumably,you already accept that man is responsible for all the atrocities throughout history, so why would introducing a God change that?
To give a source of thought which stems from the body/soul thinking we almost all do.

They call it substance dualism.

We are born with our physical self telling us we are the fittest of our kind, and our dual thinking thinking telling us we have some kind of non-material connection to reality.

Are you part of the 95% of us who are thinking that way?

Regards
DL
Joshua10
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Re: God is dying. Will he be dead?

Post by Joshua10 »

Greatest I am wrote: July 8th, 2022, 10:48 am
Joshua10 wrote: July 7th, 2022, 2:32 am
Greatest I am wrote: July 6th, 2022, 10:38 am I have no idea of what you are talking about, and science only partially knows how the universe works.

That has nothing to do with my moral question.

Perhaps your reply was meant for another.

Regards
DL
Sorry, my last point was meant for Sy Borg,

On your morals point …what actually is your point? You are trying to blame someone who doesn’t exist in your hopeful belief system.They need to exist before you can blame them.

Presumably,you already accept that man is responsible for all the atrocities throughout history, so why would introducing a God change that?
To give a source of thought which stems from the body/soul thinking we almost all do.

They call it substance dualism.

We are born with our physical self telling us we are the fittest of our kind, and our dual thinking thinking telling us we have some kind of non-material connection to reality.

Are you part of the 95% of us who are thinking that way?

Regards
DL
Dualism is associated with consciousness states .We are not consciousness states,just as we are not thoughts or emotions.

We (PRESENCE) are either AWARE or UNAWARE of the 2 consciousness states that we “toggle” between all the time and exercise or don’t exercise CONTROL over those consciousness states in which inward and outward thoughts reside,which, along with the information coming in from the five senses result in our emotions.

Scientists don’t know anything about consciousness, they have no idea about PRESENCE;CONTROL;AWARENESS either which sit above consciousness states.

The reason is that most of the scientists who try to dictate science these days are secularist who don’t believe that SELF exists so they ain’t gonna know much about this stuff are they.

They’re busily running around on their dualist hamsters wheels inventing their nonsense theories and flowery mathematical formulas to back them up.

They will never understand this stuff whilst practicing spectator science.They need to start getting involved in the game and start practicing player science.

We are totally embroiled in the workings of the universe at every level you see.

How can it be any other way?
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Sy Borg
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Re: God is dying. Will he be dead?

Post by Sy Borg »

Joshua10 wrote: July 9th, 2022, 5:05 amScientists don’t know anything about consciousness, they have no idea about PRESENCE;CONTROL;AWARENESS either which sit above consciousness states.
1. Researchers have made great progress studying the nature of consciousness. You need to accept that they know far more than you do. Researchers have a passion for the field and work extremely hard to learn about it.

2. A non-sequitur - "awareness" does not sit above consciousness but is a quality of consciousness.


Just because science exposed your church's many mistakes and lies in the past, does not mean you need to conduct a vendetta against use of the scientific method. Why not accept that theists got a lot of things wrong, the mistakes since corrected by future breakthroughs in knowledge, and just get on with life?
Joshua10
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Re: God is dying. Will he be dead?

Post by Joshua10 »

Sy Borg wrote: July 9th, 2022, 4:46 pm
Joshua10 wrote: July 9th, 2022, 5:05 amScientists don’t know anything about consciousness, they have no idea about PRESENCE;CONTROL;AWARENESS either which sit above consciousness states.
1. Researchers have made great progress studying the nature of consciousness. You need to accept that they know far more than you do. Researchers have a passion for the field and work extremely hard to learn about it.

2. A non-sequitur - "awareness" does not sit above consciousness but is a quality of consciousness.


Just because science exposed your church's many mistakes and lies in the past, does not mean you need to conduct a vendetta against use of the scientific method. Why not accept that theists got a lot of things wrong, the mistakes since corrected by future breakthroughs in knowledge, and just get on with life?
I can assure you that researches will have made absolutely no progress at all studying the nature of consciousness if they are still pursuing it with a “spectator” scientific approach.You can only fully understand consciousness if you pursue “player” science.i.e.get involved in the game.PERIOD.Scientists don’t want to become part of their own experiments,well they are going to have to to fully understand consciousness.

You cannot separate yourself from consciousness and observe it.You are totally embroiled in it and experience it.

Awareness and Unawareness absolutely do sit above the 2 consciousness states.If you were aware you would know this but you are unaware and therefore you have no concept of PRESENCE either (which sits above awareness) and the fact that PRESENCE controls the consciousness states.

All that science is exposing is the fact that it has made and continues to make mistakes.It claims that it all started with a single Big Bang.Well that was a lie, observations are confirming that now.

Science still needs to explain why the 4 magnetic force interactions SS…SN…..NS….NN are not absolutely identical.There should be 4 repulsion’s or 4 attractions or no repulsions or attractions at all if their claims of N=S and S=N are correct (They clam that N & S are absolutely identical you see which is clearly another lie).
Joshua10
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Re: God is dying. Will he be dead?

Post by Joshua10 »

Secular science cannot go any further than NOT understanding consciousness.It’s their “hard” problem and will remain their “hard” problem.

In order to understand consciousness one first has to accept the possibility that PRESENCE exists and secular scientists aren’t going to do that because if they accept a PRESENCE as separate from consciousness then the possibility of a God becomes even more of a possibility and they certainly don’t want to entertain that idea.

Consciousness is easy to understand if you introduce a separate PRESENCE.A child could understand it.Consciousness then becomes an “easy” problem to resolve.

Mainstream science is it a major cross roads and many scientists are aware of this.
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Sy Borg
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Re: God is dying. Will he be dead?

Post by Sy Borg »

Joshua, you clearly know far more about sciencing than those dumb old neuroscientists, physicists, biologists, chemists and cosmologists, despite the decades they spent studying and working in their chosen field.

So perhaps you could advise those silly sausage neuroscientists how they could go about scientifically proving the existence of God - or "PRESENCE", as you put it. After all, you clearly understand consciousness far better than any ignorant science person. Ten minutes with Google trumps a doctorate every time.
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