Thomyum2 wrote: ↑May 4th, 2020, 6:41 pm
evolution wrote: ↑May 2nd, 2020, 9:41 pm
Is that what you do.
I do not do this.
I use language and words that I KNOW I can back up and support with evidence and/or proof.
I am not aware of any thing, which cannot be fully captured in language and words. After all there is a word for absolutely EVERY thing in the Universe. Therefore, I find it extremely simple and easy to use words and language for EVERY thing, and know that EVERY thing can be captured in words and/or language.
Yes, this is what we do. We speak not only about things we have in common, but we also speak about experiences which belong to us alone. Like Wittgenstein's 'beetle in a box', we can all talk about our beetle, but if we cannot see into each others' box, we cannot know whether or not our beetles are the same - language cannot capture that.
But we can see into each other's box. This is an extremely very simple and very easy thing to do. This is; once one discovers or learns and knows how to. And, in fact, it is through language, itself, how what is seen is understood or captured.
When people usually say some thing like; "this cannot be done". The Truth usually is the case that it can in fact usually be done very simply and very easily.
Just like about absolutely every thing that was once thought of as being impossible, once when it is achieved and/or is being done, then what is found is it can be done - and usually very simply and very easily as well. All that is needed is the know-how of how to achieve and/or do it.
Thomyum2 wrote: ↑May 4th, 2020, 6:41 pm
This is often discussed in the context of pain - we use the word 'pain' to refer to a general class of experiences we all have, and I can use a simile to try to approximate it for you, e.g. 'it hurts like a bee sting' or 'I feel sort of like I've been punched in the stomach', and that way if you've been stung by a bee or punched in the stomach, you may be able to come close to imagining how I feel, but you can never know for sure how I feel because that experience is mine alone, and there are no words in language that will let me give it to you.
But you did just give 'it' to me, and through words in language in fact.
By the way, people, themselves, hardly ever knows for sure how they, them self, feels at any given moment. But this does not stop us from seeing into our own box nor seeing into other's boxes.
See there is very simple and very easy way to see into other's boxes. Once that way is learned, then fully understanding how to gain True empathy is obtained.
Thomyum2 wrote: ↑May 4th, 2020, 6:41 pm
Well, God to me is not revealed empirically or by logic, but through faith.
Faith is not needed once FULL
understanding is gained.
Thomyum2 wrote: ↑May 4th, 2020, 6:41 pm
Keep in mind that all truths arrived at empirically or logically are based on the acceptance of the reality of an observation or the truth of a premise - they are not true independent of those.
But this is the whole point of gaining the FULL
understanding of Truth, Reality, God, et cetera. They are by definition a Truly independent thing.
But there is a lot that needs to be explained further and to be understood before this can be clearly seen and Truly understood.
Thomyum2 wrote: ↑May 4th, 2020, 6:41 pm
So whether we rely on faith, or empirical observations, or on valid reasoning based on premises - all three of these require an assumption or an acceptance of a truth to start with.
Again, the point is; there cannot be any assumption at all being made prior, for ALL-OF-THIS to be Truly understood.
Thomyum2 wrote: ↑May 4th, 2020, 6:41 pm
How we each come to that kind of acceptance, that starting point that we build on, is a personal matter and not something that anyone else can see into us to prove or disprove.
EVERY thing is built on past experiences. The starting point is just the first experience. As for seeing into and proving or disproving things I would not be so sure of one's self to say that this could not be done. There are a lot of things that can be very easily and very simple done NOW, which were once seen as being completely impossible to do, prior.
Thomyum2 wrote: ↑May 4th, 2020, 6:41 pm
Which is why I say that the experience of God can be discussed or expressed in language - but not shown to be right or wrong.
Correct me if I am wrong here, but this is just an assumption you are making, based solely on your own past personal experiences, and which you are building upon further and further, because as of now you have not seen nor experienced anything that shows you otherwise, correct?
Also, just discussing one's own personal experience of God does not really achieve any thing, unless of course there is a goal oriented discussion, which that experience expressed with the people in the discussion would be helpful in achieving the agreed upon and accepted goal to be reached.
If it is not, then some people might just believe that that one is just pushing their own beliefs onto others. And we all know how those discussions end up.
Thomyum2 wrote: ↑May 4th, 2020, 6:41 pm
It is understood that we will be challenged, and hopefully if done in the proper spirit we will all be the better for it. But I would point out a distinction between faith and belief - they are not the same thing.
Yes I am aware of this, and that is why I said what I said the way I said it.
Thomyum2 wrote: ↑May 4th, 2020, 6:41 pm
An act of faith is one of trust not of belief; it is a choice that plays out in how we choose to live and relate to other, not in what we think or decide to 'believe' - it is an important distinction. Having faith is not merely believing that something is true or false.
Yes I am aware of this as well.
Just out of curiosity what were you assuming I was saying and/or meaning?