Natural evil VS the innocent - Genetic defect in child

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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Whitedragon
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Re: Natural evil VS the innocent - Genetic defect in child

Post by Whitedragon »

Since we're talking about what is pain and suffering and your pain receptor concept, shouldn't we also be asking how much of us is us? We talk about pain as if it belongs to us and is part of us, but is it really? Does the ego even belong to us? It seems we constantly work to keep things and control things, so isn't the lesson of pain in this case that we don't know who we are?

The whole thread is about a question we have been struggling to answer for a long time in history, perhaps the answer is to give pain a personality. No one will stop complaining about hunger until they are fed or until they meet a lover, does pain, then, not also have the "right to complain?"

Perhaps trying to stop pain is like trying to calm the sea of which, it seems, we sometimes have equally little control over. So perhaps pain is far more removed from us than we think?
We are a frozen spirit; our thoughts a cloud of droplets; different oceans and ages brood inside – where spirit sublimates. To some our words, an acid rain, to some it is too pure, to some infectious, to some a cure.
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Whitedragon
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Joined: November 14th, 2012, 12:12 pm

Re: Natural evil VS the innocent - Genetic defect in child

Post by Whitedragon »

evolution wrote: August 15th, 2020, 10:18 am
Whitedragon wrote: August 15th, 2020, 9:59 am Hi, Evolution,
Okay,

Between you and me we can agree on this lesson view on pain, how can we take this explanation and represent it to the grandmother so it can help her and perhaps even the mother?
I have YET to be told of what pain this child is supposedly even in, or is allegedly suffering from. When this is actually presented to me, then I better equipped to explain to you how you can take this explanation and represent it to the grandmother.

Until you are forthcoming with answers to ALL the clarifying questions I have asked you, in regards to this alleged child, then I can NOT present you with what is best for this grandmother.
Whitedragon wrote: August 15th, 2020, 9:59 am I don't disagree with your explanation as it is based on cause, effect and necessity for survival. Perhaps if we explore your explanation deeper, pain can actually very well teach them something, but how to present it?
With Honesty, and OPENNESS. That is how I like to present EVERY thing.

Now, once again, what pain is this child supposedly in?

Also, being deaf causes NO pain at all that I am aware of.

And, being deaf also does NOT mean that that one will never experience 'evil' thoughts.

So, what pain is that child supposedly in? And, why will that child supposedly never experience 'evil' thoughts?
I'm talking to the grandmother tomorrow, I'll ask her to text me the name of the disease and add all the other specifics.
We are a frozen spirit; our thoughts a cloud of droplets; different oceans and ages brood inside – where spirit sublimates. To some our words, an acid rain, to some it is too pure, to some infectious, to some a cure.
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Whitedragon
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Joined: November 14th, 2012, 12:12 pm

Re: Natural evil VS the innocent - Genetic defect in child

Post by Whitedragon »

Hi all,
I feel this thread has run it's course for me, I'm unsubscribing. There has been no new contributors here.
I also feel that aside from two helpful posters I haven't gotten anything from this discussion... I feel like I'm the only one, aside from one or two, that has been making any major and valuable inputs.

I don't like being subtly referred to as a liar when things are said like "alleged child." I also feel I don't need to prove his existence. I know I've provided enough information to have a discussion that will benefit both the contributors and the family I'm trying to help.

I'll find my own way,
You all are more than welcome to continue the discussion among yourselves. I on the other hand am disgruntled. I'm also dismayed that on a forum with hundreds of subscribers there is so little input, no offence to admin.

My special thanks and appreciation for those that truly tried to help and for the links. I'll study the story of Naomi as recommended.

Cheers,
WD
We are a frozen spirit; our thoughts a cloud of droplets; different oceans and ages brood inside – where spirit sublimates. To some our words, an acid rain, to some it is too pure, to some infectious, to some a cure.
evolution
Posts: 957
Joined: April 19th, 2020, 6:20 am

Re: Natural evil VS the innocent - Genetic defect in child

Post by evolution »

Whitedragon wrote: August 15th, 2020, 10:30 am Since we're talking about what is pain and suffering and your pain receptor concept, shouldn't we also be asking how much of us is us?
I have NO 'need' to ask questions, which I ALREADY KNOW the answers to.

I ALREADY KNOW who and what 'us' is, who and what 'you' is, and even who and what 'I' am.
Whitedragon wrote: August 15th, 2020, 10:30 am We talk about pain as if it belongs to us and is part of us, but is it really?
But I have NOT talked about pain as if it belongs to 'us'. As can be clearly SEEN and EVIDENCED above, especially as I wrote in relation to the body. I wrote, specifically:
Pain' is just associated with the physical body and specifically with the nerve endings and/or the pain receptors.

'Pain' is just a very 'normal' part of a physical body, which contains nerve endings and/or pain receptors.

Pain receptors are 'necessary' for a better life, for that body.


Whereas, when I talked about 'suffering' I referred that to 'us'. I wrote, specifically:

'Suffering' is associated with the thoughts and/or emotions, within the body.

If, and when, this is ever delved into, then what will be found is that I NEVER talked about pain as if it belongs to 'us' at all.
Whitedragon wrote: August 15th, 2020, 10:30 am Does the ego even belong to us? It seems we constantly work to keep things and control things, so isn't the lesson of pain in this case that we don't know who we are?
If one has NOT YET learned the 'lesson of pain', then that one does NOT YET know who 'we' are nor even who 'they' are.
Whitedragon wrote: August 15th, 2020, 10:30 am The whole thread is about a question we have been struggling to answer for a long time in history, perhaps the answer is to give pain a personality.
When you say; "... about a question 'we' have been struggling to answer for a long time in history, ...", then who and/or what is the 'we', exactly, which you are referring to here?

And, please make sure that 'you' are NOT including 'me' in that 'we', okay?
Whitedragon wrote: August 15th, 2020, 10:30 am No one will stop complaining about hunger until they are fed or until they meet a lover, does pain, then, not also have the "right to complain?"
'hunger' and 'lover' are just relative terms, which mean different things to different people.

What one person complains about is NOT necessarily what another person would complain about at all.

Some people, after all, just accept that the body might be feeling hungry at some particular point of time, but this is CERTAINLY NOT some thing that they would complain about all.

Also, things, besides children and non human animals, do not have a 'right to complain', nor even have the capacity to complain. Hunger and pain, obviously, does not have any capacity to complain.
Whitedragon wrote: August 15th, 2020, 10:30 am Perhaps trying to stop pain is like trying to calm the sea of which, it seems, we sometimes have equally little control over.
What is your seemingly 'obsession' with 'trying to' stop pain. I have NEVER suggested 'trying to' stop pain. So, where is this thinking, or obsession, with this, coming from exactly?
Whitedragon wrote: August 15th, 2020, 10:30 am So perhaps pain is far more removed from us than we think?
'Pain' is just part of the body, and, to me, people are NOT the body.

The body is made, and has evolved, to feel pain. Pain is a necessary way of helping to make sure that the body can live and survive for as long as it can, the best way that it can.

'Suffering' is a completely other matter, which has to do with people, and NOT the body.
evolution
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Re: Natural evil VS the innocent - Genetic defect in child

Post by evolution »

Whitedragon wrote: August 15th, 2020, 10:35 am
evolution wrote: August 15th, 2020, 10:18 am

I have YET to be told of what pain this child is supposedly even in, or is allegedly suffering from. When this is actually presented to me, then I better equipped to explain to you how you can take this explanation and represent it to the grandmother.

Until you are forthcoming with answers to ALL the clarifying questions I have asked you, in regards to this alleged child, then I can NOT present you with what is best for this grandmother.



With Honesty, and OPENNESS. That is how I like to present EVERY thing.

Now, once again, what pain is this child supposedly in?

Also, being deaf causes NO pain at all that I am aware of.

And, being deaf also does NOT mean that that one will never experience 'evil' thoughts.

So, what pain is that child supposedly in? And, why will that child supposedly never experience 'evil' thoughts?
I'm talking to the grandmother tomorrow, I'll ask her to text me the name of the disease and add all the other specifics.
But I thought you would ALREADY KNOW the specifics of 'this' child, especially considering you have said that 'this' child is in pain, and is suffering, and has no capacity of thinking and/or can never know nor understand 'evil'.

If, and when, someone tells me that there is a child like this, especially if it was their own grandson, then I am intrigued and so curious that I am very quickly set into a series of clarifying questions. But, then again, I do this with just about all things human beings say, and claim are true.
Atla
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Joined: January 30th, 2018, 1:18 pm

Re: Natural evil VS the innocent - Genetic defect in child

Post by Atla »

Whitedragon wrote: August 15th, 2020, 11:14 am Hi all,
I feel this thread has run it's course for me, I'm unsubscribing. There has been no new contributors here.
I also feel that aside from two helpful posters I haven't gotten anything from this discussion... I feel like I'm the only one, aside from one or two, that has been making any major and valuable inputs.

I don't like being subtly referred to as a liar when things are said like "alleged child." I also feel I don't need to prove his existence. I know I've provided enough information to have a discussion that will benefit both the contributors and the family I'm trying to help.

I'll find my own way,
You all are more than welcome to continue the discussion among yourselves. I on the other hand am disgruntled. I'm also dismayed that on a forum with hundreds of subscribers there is so little input, no offence to admin.

My special thanks and appreciation for those that truly tried to help and for the links. I'll study the story of Naomi as recommended.

Cheers,
WD
Don't let anything what 'evolution' wrote bother you though, he's probably clinically insane.
True philosophy points to the Moon
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