Ecurb wrote: ↑October 10th, 2020, 9:37 am...
The student of religion can't possibly know what other people "believe". We can only know people from their actions: what they say and what they do. For Fundamentalists (who probably don't believe Acquinas was a saint at all) "belief" in the Bible is the foundational tenet of their sects. However, since they can't tell WHAT their co-religionists believe, they must constantly recount their "born again" moment; their faith in the infallibility of the bible; their position about abortion (although I'm not sure what that has to do with the Bible).
The reason why you are unsure what being against abortion has to do with the Bible is because that position is not Biblical. In fact, the reverse is Biblical. In Exodus, we are told that if people accidentally kill a fetus (note it does not matter if it is the day before she is due to give birth), the penalty is only a fine, if the husband requires it, as approved by judges. Since murder is to be punished with death, this means killing a fetus is not murder according to the Bible. The fetus is treated just like property of the husband, not like it is a real life.
Exodus 21 (KJV):
22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
Not only is there that bit in Exodus, there is what is stated in Numbers, in which a man make take his pregnant wife to the priests, when he suspects that she has committed adultery, and the priests mix a magic potion that will cause an abortion if she is guilty of adultery. Thus the Bible is in favor fo abortion, at least in the case of adultery.
Numbers 5 (KJV):
11 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
12 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man's wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him,
13 And a man lie with her carnally, and it be hid from the eyes of her husband, and be kept close, and she be defiled, and there be no witness against her, neither she be taken with the manner;
14 And the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled:
15 Then shall the man bring his wife unto the priest, and he shall bring her offering for her, the tenth part of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil upon it, nor put frankincense thereon; for it is an offering of jealousy, an offering of memorial, bringing iniquity to remembrance.
16 And the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the Lord:
17 And the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel; and of the dust that is in the floor of the tabernacle the priest shall take, and put it into the water:
18 And the priest shall set the woman before the Lord, and uncover the woman's head, and put the offering of memorial in her hands, which is the jealousy offering: and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse:
19 And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say unto the woman, If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness with another instead of thy husband, be thou free from this bitter water that causeth the curse:
20 But if thou hast gone aside to another instead of thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee beside thine husband:
21 Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, The Lord make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the Lord doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell;
22 And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen.
23 And the priest shall write these curses in a book, and he shall blot them out with the bitter water:
24 And he shall cause the woman to drink the bitter water that causeth the curse: and the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter.
25 Then the priest shall take the jealousy offering out of the woman's hand, and shall wave the offering before the Lord, and offer it upon the altar:
26 And the priest shall take an handful of the offering, even the memorial thereof, and burn it upon the altar, and afterward shall cause the woman to drink the water.
27 And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people.
28 And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed.
29 This is the law of jealousies, when a wife goeth aside to another instead of her husband, and is defiled;
30 Or when the spirit of jealousy cometh upon him, and he be jealous over his wife, and shall set the woman before the Lord, and the priest shall execute upon her all this law.
31 Then shall the man be guiltless from iniquity, and this woman shall bear her iniquity.
So, the Christians who are against abortion, claiming that the unborn is to be regarded as human life and pretend to get their ideas about abortion from the Bible are just wrong. They are going directly against what the Bible explicitly states.
So, you are absolutely right to question the idea that being anti-abortion is connected to the Bible.
This is also instructive in that people often pretend to get their ideas from places where they did not. Whether one takes the Bible literally or metaphorically makes no difference on this. Much of what people believe is what they want to believe rather than being derived from a book.
Ecurb wrote: ↑October 10th, 2020, 9:37 am...
My experience with evangelical Christianity is slim. But in my anthroplogy days, I once attended a church in which people spoke in tongues (glossolalia). Now, this is supposed to involve an altered state of consciousness, in which the inspired person speaks in strange languages. When I saw it, as a mere observer, the state of consciousness appeared no more "altered" than it did for any other part of the service: singing a hymn or saying a prayer. It appeared to be a church ritual like any other.
Well, yes, doing such things regularly isn't going to be with an altered state of consciousness. It is pretend, like so much in religion, though sometimes people believe their own BS.
The idea that they can switch it on and switch it off at will, with it being a real altered state of consciousness, is just ridiculous.
Yes, for some religions, ritual is what matters. That is particularly true of many ancient religions, like the ancient Greek religion.
Stories can have more than one meaning. And some stories can be taken either literally or metaphorically, as in many instances in the Bible (to keep with the present example).
Of course, it is an open question what the original author or authors intended to mean with their stories. Sometimes, authors willfully include ambiguity and leave things open to many interpretations. I am not so sure that I would always regard that as a feature of "good" stories, as it could also be the result of sloppy and careless writing. Sometimes, having one exact meaning is a virtue, to help avoid confusion.