Proof there is no God

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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Sculptor1
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Re: Proof there is no God

Post by Sculptor1 » October 17th, 2020, 12:01 pm

evolution wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 7:57 am
Sculptor1 wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 6:40 am

What do you mean "God"?
Thee actual Truth of what God actually IS.
But what so you mean by "God"?
Sculptor1 wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 6:40 am
I already told you.
What you told me was, obviously, NOT very specific at all, and could, actually, refer to absolutely ANY thing at all. If you do NOT want to explain specifically NOR in detail what you actually mean, then that is fine. I ALREADY KNOW, and UNDERSTAND WHY, 'you' are still so confused about things here.
I am not going to divide everything in the Universe of my experience into tow convenient lists for you; good and evil.
You are the confused one here.

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Jack D Ripper
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Re: Proof there is no God

Post by Jack D Ripper » October 17th, 2020, 12:01 pm

Felix wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 5:00 am
Jack D Ripper: "You seem to be assuming that having a material world in which things evolve is desirable. That is something for which evidence should be given before anyone believes this."
You need evidence that the universe we live in is more "desirable" than one in which in which life does not evolve beyond simple unicellular life forms?

You evidently have not been paying attention to my posts. I have repeatedly stated that, if there were a God, if it would create anything (which it would not need to do), it would directly create things suitable for heaven. There is no need for a God to create or allow suffering. Creating or allowing unnecessary suffering is evil.

Felix wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 5:00 am
"You seem to be assuming that the laws of physics could not have been made to be something else. That is something for which evidence should be given before anyone believes this."
There is no dispute about the fact that a precise balance of universal forces must manifest to give rise to stars, planets, and especially to life.

There may be no dispute about those things without a God, but with one, God could change things at will. Otherwise, it would not be omnipotent. You seem to imagine that God is powerless to do anything. You seem to imagine a god that is omni-impotent, the opposite of omnipotent.

Felix wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 5:00 am
...
If you have your appendix removed, you will never miss it. You do not need it at all. In fact, for those who regard humans as being created by God, the appendix appears to be a design flaw, unless God wanted people to occasionally get sick and sometimes be in excruciating pain and sometimes die....
Completely false, by the way, the appendix serves an important immune function and studies suggest that lacking one can depress your immune response.

...
Not that this example matters for the main argument, but people don't drop dead from having their appendixes removed. It is unnecessary, or everyone who had one removed would die or suffer from its loss, which is not the case and you know this to be true. You also know that having an appendix kills people from time to time.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence." - David Hume

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Jack D Ripper
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Re: Proof there is no God

Post by Jack D Ripper » October 17th, 2020, 12:11 pm

evolution wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 7:10 am
...

When, and IF, you ever learn and understand exactly what thee omniscient and omnipotent Being actually IS, and how It actually works, then you will, also, instantly SEE and UNDERSTAND the absurdness and ridiculousness of what you are 'trying to' argue for, and are concluding here.

...

You keep claiming that and yet you never explain it. Why is that?

Why don't you tell us what this "omniscient and omnipotent Being actually IS" since you seem to be suggesting that you know about this?

Of course, if you tell us that this being lacks omnibenevolence, then it isn't the god being discussed in the opening post, and is therefore irrelevant to the discussion, just like Zeus, who, by the way, I have not shown in this thread to not exist. If you believe in Zeus, the argument presented does not show that he does not exist, so you can rest easy. The argument only applies to a being that has all three of these qualities: Omniscience, omnipotence, and omnibenevolence. If it lacks one of those qualities, it is not the being under discussion.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence." - David Hume

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Jack D Ripper
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Re: Proof there is no God

Post by Jack D Ripper » October 17th, 2020, 12:15 pm

In the quote below, an obvious typographical error has been corrected. The word that is altered is in italics.
Sculptor1 wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 12:01 pm
evolution wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 7:57 am


Thee actual Truth of what God actually IS.
But what do you mean by "God"?
...
It will be interesting to see if you get a coherent attempt at an answer to that question.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence." - David Hume

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Jack D Ripper
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Re: Proof there is no God

Post by Jack D Ripper » October 17th, 2020, 12:18 pm

evolution wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 6:48 am
Jack D Ripper wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 2:25 pm



I was shocked because I was young (a child) and naive. Some of those people were members of the church I attended.

Now, of course, I am not surprised when I encounter Christians who are total hypocrites and who affirm contradictory nonsense. It is almost shocking if one encounters a Christian who is not obviously hypocritical and who does not openly affirm contradictory nonsense.
Have you ever considered that the, so called, "contradictory nonsense" is just due to the way that you and/or them mis/interpret and/or express those views?
Have you ever considered the possibility that it is contradictory nonsense?
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence." - David Hume

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Jack D Ripper
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Re: Proof there is no God

Post by Jack D Ripper » October 17th, 2020, 12:20 pm

evolution wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 7:22 am
Jack D Ripper wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 2:48 pm



So you do not think that parents, who create their children, have any duty to care for them?
You wrote a statement, but put a question mark at the end of it. So, are you writing a statement, (based on an ASSUMPTION), or are you asking me a question, for clarification?

...
No wonder the conversation with you goes nowhere, when you do not understand that a question mark is used to ask a question. I see now why you don't answer questions that are asked of you.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence." - David Hume

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Jack D Ripper
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Re: Proof there is no God

Post by Jack D Ripper » October 17th, 2020, 12:22 pm

Terrapin Station wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 11:34 am
Jack D Ripper wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 9:11 pm
I am suggesting that saying that "God is good" is supposed to be a description of God, and not a description of what people think or feel about God.
Aside from other issues here, you're just making up that it's "supposed to be" something other than a description of mental states.
...
Do you mean to suggest that the statement "God is good" is not supposed to be about God, but about something else?
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence." - David Hume

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Sculptor1
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Re: Proof there is no God

Post by Sculptor1 » October 17th, 2020, 1:24 pm

Jack D Ripper wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 12:15 pm
In the quote below, an obvious typographical error has been corrected. The word that is altered is in italics.
Sculptor1 wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 12:01 pm

But what do you mean by "God"?
...
It will be interesting to see if you get a coherent attempt at an answer to that question.
It's not the first time I've asked.
LOL

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Fanman
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Re: Proof there is no God

Post by Fanman » October 17th, 2020, 1:51 pm

evolution,
I agree that this 'helping one's self and/or doing and accomplishing things for, and by, one's self' is unrivaled.
It is isn't it. Recently I've been in a bit of employment law difficulty. I can't afford a solicitor, so after doing some research and reading, I formulated a complaint of my own making, which did not achieve everything that I wanted to, but it got me out of the situation without huge damage to my reputation, which was my opponents goal I believe. I've been using these forums for a good few years now, and I can tell you that being articulate is a very powerful tool, don't underestimate what you have in that sense.

On topic, as much I would welcome 'divine help' in my life, the satisfaction of helping oneself in my view outweighs it. Because anything we learn can only strengthen us and cause us to develop further. I don't need God for anything, I just need too feed my brain with information/knowledge, and watch it go.

I also had a problem with heartburn, did a bit of research, changed my diet, and bang,100% better. If God had healed me, I would be none the wiser. Therefore, how do we know that it isn't God's will that we go through these things? He/She may not be as the texts report, they could be like "a divine gardener", who just provides the nutrients for us to grow. But unlike flowers, how we grow totally is up to us.

My apologies for not responding to other posts, I'll try to get to them when I can.
Once a theist, now agnostic.

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Felix
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Re: Proof there is no God

Post by Felix » October 17th, 2020, 3:22 pm

Jack D Ripper: "There may be no dispute about those things without a God, but with one, God could change things at will. Otherwise, it would not be omnipotent."
As I suggested earlier, your definition of "omnipotent" is nonsensical, it implies magical powers completely divorced from reality as we know it. If we know that certain conditions are necessary to form a universe, generate life, etc., it's absurd to propose that a magical being could simply ignore those physical laws and manifest things willy-nilly out of thin air (or thick neutrons). I take omnipotent to mean the ability to do anything physically possible, not to do any impossible thing. There is no need to disprove the existence of the God you've sketched because it is an absurdity.

We may first want to consider if a "being" could be omni-anything (omniscient, omnipotent, etc.) at all, since by definition a being is a discrete derivative entity. It could be a primal power, such as consciousness - but of course most people could not take solace in such a diety.
"I also had a problem with heartburn, did a bit of research, changed my diet, and bang, 100% better."
I thought you were going to say, "So I avoided all philosophy forum threads re: God, and bang, 100% better!" - that will work too.
"Therefore, how do we know that it isn't God's will that we go through these things?"
Yes, that is supposedly the point of evolution - becoming. Or as Alan Watts put it, the Lord's first commandment is, "Thou shalt not be boring!"
"We do not see things as they are; we see things as we are." - Anaïs Nin

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Sculptor1
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Re: Proof there is no God

Post by Sculptor1 » October 17th, 2020, 4:03 pm

Felix wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 3:22 pm
I take omnipotent to mean the ability to do anything physically possible, not to do any impossible thing. There is no need to disprove the existence of the God you've sketched because it is an absurdity.
Fine. So what do you mean by God. What can God do?

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detail
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Re: Proof there is no God

Post by detail » October 17th, 2020, 4:19 pm

Steve3007 wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 4:50 am
detail wrote:Why doesn't anybody here calls god , just the government and the public officials of this state.
Start by re-phrasing your question so that it's more coherent. I started by looking back a couple of posts to see if this makes any sense in the context of what you've said previously. You said this:
The proof is that the most amiable old relatives who never did to anybody any harm died quite terrible for oneself.
OK. So, first, what do you mean by "quite terrible for oneself"? What does it mean to die in that manner? Are you simply saying that the finite length of human life proves that there is no God?

Then you go on to say this:
Another proof is , that people that are close to unknown to you buy a whal-o-matic app (in english election o matic app) play the the intrigant and claim for other people political provocative claims and laugh about other people treated badly to the inside , due to the fact that they are in posession of a membership of a brain activity sounds , whats app group and listen to the interrogation of those people.
It's even more difficult to figure out what you're talking about here, but you seem to be saying that the existence of an app giving people recommendations about who to vote for proves that there is no God? If that is what you're claiming (and you're not just joking) then it's a pretty specific and personal gripe to use as the basis for an argument. You might as well grumble that the windscreen wipers on your car have broken, therefore there is no God.
The problem , why should anybody be in need of a inhumane deity which is not in case interested in personal matters. There is even a limit for philosphical understanding that a deity that doesn't want to communicate with you and is not capable to act in a sociable and humane matter is a deity that needs no one to believe in it. So the basic reason for a god, the belief of humans,is lacking which is the basis of all philosophical argumentation.
Without anybody believing in a wayward and cruel god, the pure existence of something without caring , that acts ruthless and does not reward your belief is simply superflous.

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Terrapin Station
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Re: Proof there is no God

Post by Terrapin Station » October 17th, 2020, 7:02 pm

Jack D Ripper wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 12:22 pm
Terrapin Station wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 11:34 am


Aside from other issues here, you're just making up that it's "supposed to be" something other than a description of mental states.
...
Do you mean to suggest that the statement "God is good" is not supposed to be about God, but about something else?
I don't mean to suggest that statements are supposed to be about anything.

They ARE about whatever they're about per the particular usages in question.

creation
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Re: Proof there is no God

Post by creation » October 17th, 2020, 7:39 pm

Terrapin Station wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 11:20 am
evolution wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 6:42 am
We could look at and talk about a 'person', or, we could just stay on the topic of thread.

The former is usually discouraged in "philosophy".
You never talk about philosophy.
ONCE AGAIN you use words as though they have ONE definition ONLY, and that you are the beholder of that ONE and ONLY definition.

You STILL have NOT YET come to COMPREHEND and UNDERSTAND what I have been saying here, in this forum.

What does the word 'philosophy' in your claim here mean?
Terrapin Station wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 11:20 am
You just say that people don't understand what you meant, do know the truth like you do (even though you never actually attempt to relay it), and proclaim that you have no beliefs.
Besides the first 'do' word, ALL of the rest of what you wrote here is just about EXACTLY RIGHT.

I have, however, ALSO explained EXACTLY WHY people do not YET understand what I meant, partly explained WHY people do NOT know the Truth like I do, explained WHY I NEVER have NOR EVER WILL actually attempt to relay thee Truth, in this forum, and I have explained EXACTLY WHY I have NO beliefs.

But who here has EVERY actually FULLY understood my explanations?

creation
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Re: Proof there is no God

Post by creation » October 17th, 2020, 7:41 pm

Sculptor1 wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 11:59 am
evolution wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 7:47 am


Okay, all is good then.

I now wonder WHY such a, self-professed, enlightened one would converse with one such as 'me'?
I am an educator.
A, so called, "educator" of 'what', exactly?
Sculptor1 wrote:
October 17th, 2020, 11:59 am
For emphasis use italics. Bold, in online discussions, is taken as shouting.
Ah okay.

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