You mean Earth, Water, Air and Fire? Perhaps you will see it more easily if I call them solid, liquid, gas and energy?
Christmas and contradiction
- Pattern-chaser
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Re: Christmas and contradiction
"Who cares, wins"
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Re: Christmas and contradiction
You're the one who thought that the 4 elements are science.
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Re: Christmas and contradiction
And this one doesn't know the difference between elements and the common states of matter.Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑December 27th, 2020, 8:46 amYou mean Earth, Water, Air and Fire? Perhaps you will see it more easily if I call them solid, liquid, gas and energy?
- Sculptor1
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Re: Christmas and contradiction
Like I said, maybe you should read more.
Let me recommned this one.
Greek Science After Aristotle
by G. E. R. Lloyd
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Re: Christmas and contradiction
Here's something for you to read too:
https://www.amazon.com/Tabbed-Board-Boo ... 0756636043
Once you get used to big numbers like 2020, you'll have an easier time avoiding anachronism
- Pattern-chaser
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Re: Christmas and contradiction
The use of "elements" in this way pre-dates the more modern use (as in "chemical elements") by many centuries. The original usage is acceptable and clear.Atla wrote: ↑December 27th, 2020, 8:59 amAnd this one doesn't know the difference between elements and the common states of matter.Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑December 27th, 2020, 8:46 am You mean Earth, Water, Air and Fire? Perhaps you will see it more easily if I call them solid, liquid, gas and energy?
"Who cares, wins"
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Re: Christmas and contradiction
Now you're mixing three different things, the 4 elements, the chemical elements and the common states of matter.Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑December 27th, 2020, 10:12 amThe use of "elements" in this way pre-dates the more modern use (as in "chemical elements") by many centuries. The original usage is acceptable and clear.
- Pattern-chaser
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Re: Christmas and contradiction
So what? My words are clear and easily understood. What's your problem?Atla wrote: ↑December 27th, 2020, 10:19 amNow you're mixing three different things, the 4 elements, the chemical elements and the common states of matter.Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑December 27th, 2020, 10:12 am
The use of "elements" in this way pre-dates the more modern use (as in "chemical elements") by many centuries. The original usage is acceptable and clear.
"Who cares, wins"
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Re: Christmas and contradiction
You're conflating three different things, while apparently also agreeing and disagreeing with me at the same time contradicting yourself, while trying to play the know-it-all. Wouldn't call that clear and easily understood.Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑December 27th, 2020, 10:33 amSo what? My words are clear and easily understood. What's your problem?
- Sculptor1
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Re: Christmas and contradiction
Yes, as the contemporary cosmology of the universe was considered to be made of only four elemental substances, the term "element" is not only correct it is literally correct.Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑December 27th, 2020, 10:12 amThe use of "elements" in this way pre-dates the more modern use (as in "chemical elements") by many centuries. The original usage is acceptable and clear.
We still use the term "elements" poetically when we talk about the weather.
And in a sense, what we now call elements such as hydrogen, helium etc.. are no longer elemental since we now use a long list of sub-atomic particles.
And whilst we are on the subject the word "atom" also dates from pre-socratic Greece and literaly means a fundemental particle so small it cannot be divided.
- Pattern-chaser
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Re: Christmas and contradiction
Atla wrote: ↑December 27th, 2020, 11:06 amYou're conflating three different things, while apparently also agreeing and disagreeing with me at the same time contradicting yourself, while trying to play the know-it-all. Wouldn't call that clear and easily understood.Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑December 27th, 2020, 10:33 am So what? My words are clear and easily understood. What's your problem?
I'm sorry you feel that way. You offered the four elements as an example of primitive and ignorant superstition. I observed that the ancients had already begun their (metaphorical) journey from astrology to astronomy, all those centuries before the emergence of science, and were not quite as ignorant as we sometimes think. So I disagreed with you, mildly. And quite clearly, I think....
"Who cares, wins"
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Re: Christmas and contradiction
And as usual you don't know what you're replying to. I wrote that some philosophical views can be seen as refuted by science, and Sculptor wrote that the opposite is true. The opposite of that is that we take some philosophical views (which ones though?), and then decide which experimentally established scientific facts are valid and which ones aren't. For example hydrogen oxygen and other chemical elements obviously don't exist, because they are irreconcilable with the truth of the four elements.Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑December 28th, 2020, 11:35 am
I'm sorry you feel that way. You offered the four elements as an example of primitive and ignorant superstition. I observed that the ancients had already begun their (metaphorical) journey from astrology to astronomy, all those centuries before the emergence of science, and were not quite as ignorant as we sometimes think. So I disagreed with you, mildly. And quite clearly, I think....
Also fyi, fairly advanced technology already existed way before the Greeks.
- h_k_s
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Re: Christmas and contradiction
Christian religion like Hinduism, Confucianism, and Buddhism before it, contains a lot of philosophy. What is good? And what is best? These question are all addressed in different ways by these 4 major religions in a philosophical way.
Pure philosophy completely disregards religion and science, and seeks to answer what is good and what is best through inquiry of the mind and pure unadulterated human though. Often though all 6 of these arrive at the same destination, just along different paths.
The journey is as important as the destination. Actually, in many ways, to travel is better than to arrive.
- h_k_s
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Re: Christmas and contradiction
Confucius say, never argue with an idiot; the people watching may not be able to tell the difference. Ah, so.Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑December 28th, 2020, 11:35 am
I'm sorry you feel that way. You offered the four elements as an example of primitive and ignorant superstition. I observed that the ancients had already begun their (metaphorical) journey from astrology to astronomy, all those centuries before the emergence of science, and were not quite as ignorant as we sometimes think. So I disagreed with you, mildly. And quite clearly, I think....
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Re: Christmas and contradiction
Except I didn't write or imply what Pattern-chaser is arguing against. What's with people's reading comprehension skills on this forum?h_k_s wrote: ↑December 30th, 2020, 5:22 amConfucius say, never argue with an idiot; the people watching may not be able to tell the difference. Ah, so.Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑December 28th, 2020, 11:35 am
I'm sorry you feel that way. You offered the four elements as an example of primitive and ignorant superstition. I observed that the ancients had already begun their (metaphorical) journey from astrology to astronomy, all those centuries before the emergence of science, and were not quite as ignorant as we sometimes think. So I disagreed with you, mildly. And quite clearly, I think....
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