The truth is inescapable and all encompassing

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
SneakySniper179
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The truth is inescapable and all encompassing

Post by SneakySniper179 »

I believe, weather you believe on thing is one way or another regarding life, athesm or religion, spirituality or otherwise has no bearing on what is true or false. The truth is the truth and what will happen will happen regardless of your views on how it is or should be. Views are pretty much irrelevant when compared to the truth that we most likely don't know.

I say this because regardless of if a god or hell or a heaven exist means nothing. It's just my subjective opinion. In reality my views have no bearing on what will happen in that regard. Yours don't mean anything either. You can wish and dream and even believe. That doesn't matter though. It just is.

I am trying to come to terms with this myself. I do believe that I find myself getting arrogant and full of myself in this regard because I believe I have a true say on matters regarding this subject. I have though about this to an unhealthy degree. I am coming to terms with the fact that I have no control nor should I in matters regarding life. Most people who try to will end up destroying themselves or other lives.

You have to work hard and subscribe to whatever happens not with indifference or contempt but with acceptance. That's what will truly set you free. Once you accept the way things are and what game you are playing you can learn the way to play it. This is just my life and it may be beneficial to others but I can't tell you how to live or believe in your life because I only have control over mine.

Very little control but I am working on fixing the things I can fix. That's really all I have to say on that.
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Re: The truth is inescapable and all encompassing

Post by MAYA EL »

Well you sound like you have given up on life and became a bitter old beta
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Re: The truth is inescapable and all encompassing

Post by SneakySniper179 »

That's all you got out of that.
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Re: The truth is inescapable and all encompassing

Post by LuckyR »

SneakySniper179 wrote: March 8th, 2021, 2:55 pm I believe, weather you believe on thing is one way or another regarding life, athesm or religion, spirituality or otherwise has no bearing on what is true or false. The truth is the truth and what will happen will happen regardless of your views on how it is or should be. Views are pretty much irrelevant when compared to the truth that we most likely don't know.

I say this because regardless of if a god or hell or a heaven exist means nothing. It's just my subjective opinion. In reality my views have no bearing on what will happen in that regard. Yours don't mean anything either. You can wish and dream and even believe. That doesn't matter though. It just is.

I am trying to come to terms with this myself. I do believe that I find myself getting arrogant and full of myself in this regard because I believe I have a true say on matters regarding this subject. I have though about this to an unhealthy degree. I am coming to terms with the fact that I have no control nor should I in matters regarding life. Most people who try to will end up destroying themselves or other lives.

You have to work hard and subscribe to whatever happens not with indifference or contempt but with acceptance. That's what will truly set you free. Once you accept the way things are and what game you are playing you can learn the way to play it. This is just my life and it may be beneficial to others but I can't tell you how to live or believe in your life because I only have control over mine.

Very little control but I am working on fixing the things I can fix. That's really all I have to say on that.
There is a fragment of valuable insight here. Namely that there is a lot you cannot influence and there is some that you can, therefore focus your energy on what you can change.
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Re: The truth is inescapable and all encompassing

Post by Pattern-chaser »

SneakySniper179 wrote: March 8th, 2021, 2:55 pm I believe, weather you believe on thing is one way or another regarding life, athesm or religion, spirituality or otherwise has no bearing on what is true or false. The truth is the truth and what will happen will happen regardless of your views on how it is or should be. Views are pretty much irrelevant when compared to the truth that we most likely don't know.

In philosophy, we find, when we start to look deeply, that truth is not the simple concept it first appears to be. There's a lot more to it than that.

The rest of your post seems to consider objective reality: that which is, regardless of our thoughts, opinions or beliefs. And, as you say, the detailed nature of objective reality is a 'truth' we cannot knowingly know, if you see what I mean. But 'truth' remains a prickly concept, I think, especially when it is quite impossible to verify or falsify that 'truth'.
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Re: The truth is inescapable and all encompassing

Post by SneakySniper179 »

Pattern-chaser wrote: March 9th, 2021, 8:05 am
SneakySniper179 wrote: March 8th, 2021, 2:55 pm I believe, weather you believe on thing is one way or another regarding life, athesm or religion, spirituality or otherwise has no bearing on what is true or false. The truth is the truth and what will happen will happen regardless of your views on how it is or should be. Views are pretty much irrelevant when compared to the truth that we most likely don't know.

In philosophy, we find, when we start to look deeply, that truth is not the simple concept it first appears to be. There's a lot more to it than that.

The rest of your post seems to consider objective reality: that which is, regardless of our thoughts, opinions or beliefs. And, as you say, the detailed nature of objective reality is a 'truth' we cannot knowingly know, if you see what I mean. But 'truth' remains a prickly concept, I think, especially when it is quite impossible to verify or falsify that 'truth'.
I was saying in regards to whatever you believe you have to be open to it being total ********. Humans are fallible and unless you have a lot of proof you cannot say anything is anything. It's just theory. Philosophy is just the study of human moral theory. Mostly when it comes to religion and though I have much proof in my personal life I cannot prove it to others, Therefore it's theory.
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Re: The truth is inescapable and all encompassing

Post by Mark1955 »

Back in the seventies you could get a poster for the wall of your student digs. The wording was one of a few variations on: -

"Please give me the strength to change what I can, the endurance to put up with what I cannot change and the intelligence to know the difference", but like everything else in life every new generation has to rediscover the wheel.
If you think you know the answer you probably don't understand the question.
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Re: The truth is inescapable and all encompassing

Post by Belindi »

SneakySniper179 wrote: March 8th, 2021, 2:55 pm I believe, weather you believe on thing is one way or another regarding life, athesm or religion, spirituality or otherwise has no bearing on what is true or false. The truth is the truth and what will happen will happen regardless of your views on how it is or should be. Views are pretty much irrelevant when compared to the truth that we most likely don't know.

I say this because regardless of if a god or hell or a heaven exist means nothing. It's just my subjective opinion. In reality my views have no bearing on what will happen in that regard. Yours don't mean anything either. You can wish and dream and even believe. That doesn't matter though. It just is.

I am trying to come to terms with this myself. I do believe that I find myself getting arrogant and full of myself in this regard because I believe I have a true say on matters regarding this subject. I have though about this to an unhealthy degree. I am coming to terms with the fact that I have no control nor should I in matters regarding life. Most people who try to will end up destroying themselves or other lives.

You have to work hard and subscribe to whatever happens not with indifference or contempt but with acceptance. That's what will truly set you free. Once you accept the way things are and what game you are playing you can learn the way to play it. This is just my life and it may be beneficial to others but I can't tell you how to live or believe in your life because I only have control over mine.

Very little control but I am working on fixing the things I can fix. That's really all I have to say on that.
The truth is the truth and what will happen will happen regardless of your views on how it is or should be. Views are pretty much irrelevant when compared to the truth that we most likely don't know.
This is determinism and that is okay however what you have to contend with is fatalism.

What will happen undoubtedly will happen whether it be caused by nature or willed by God. However determinism does not imply prediction. That means you do not know what is going to happen.

)Sneaky Sniper
I am coming to terms with the fact that I have no control nor should I in matters regarding life. Most people who try to will end up destroying themselves or other lives.
Good for you that you do not believe in so-called Free Will ! However you can approach more closely to what will probably happen in proportion as you increase your knowledge and use of reason and sound judgement. It is in fact your duty to yourself and others to increase your knowledge and use of reason and sound judgement. You have no absolute control: you have control relative to your power of knowledge and reason.
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Re: The truth is inescapable and all encompassing

Post by SneakySniper179 »

Belindi wrote: March 10th, 2021, 7:23 am
SneakySniper179 wrote: March 8th, 2021, 2:55 pm I believe, weather you believe on thing is one way or another regarding life, athesm or religion, spirituality or otherwise has no bearing on what is true or false. The truth is the truth and what will happen will happen regardless of your views on how it is or should be. Views are pretty much irrelevant when compared to the truth that we most likely don't know.

I say this because regardless of if a god or hell or a heaven exist means nothing. It's just my subjective opinion. In reality my views have no bearing on what will happen in that regard. Yours don't mean anything either. You can wish and dream and even believe. That doesn't matter though. It just is.

I am trying to come to terms with this myself. I do believe that I find myself getting arrogant and full of myself in this regard because I believe I have a true say on matters regarding this subject. I have though about this to an unhealthy degree. I am coming to terms with the fact that I have no control nor should I in matters regarding life. Most people who try to will end up destroying themselves or other lives.

You have to work hard and subscribe to whatever happens not with indifference or contempt but with acceptance. That's what will truly set you free. Once you accept the way things are and what game you are playing you can learn the way to play it. This is just my life and it may be beneficial to others but I can't tell you how to live or believe in your life because I only have control over mine.

Very little control but I am working on fixing the things I can fix. That's really all I have to say on that.
The truth is the truth and what will happen will happen regardless of your views on how it is or should be. Views are pretty much irrelevant when compared to the truth that we most likely don't know.
This is determinism and that is okay however what you have to contend with is fatalism.

What will happen undoubtedly will happen whether it be caused by nature or willed by God. However determinism does not imply prediction. That means you do not know what is going to happen.

)Sneaky Sniper
I am coming to terms with the fact that I have no control nor should I in matters regarding life. Most people who try to will end up destroying themselves or other lives.
Good for you that you do not believe in so-called Free Will ! However you can approach more closely to what will probably happen in proportion as you increase your knowledge and use of reason and sound judgement. It is in fact your duty to yourself and others to increase your knowledge and use of reason and sound judgement. You have no absolute control: you have control relative to your power of knowledge and reason.
You have free will to an extent. You have choices to make changes and to do stuff. What you don't have free will over is how you are or think. That's just you but you do have the choice to choose what you put into your head and why.

I do not have free will and I do. I have the control to change to an extent but I do not have the control to choose the correlations from the causes. Meaning I can not chose how my brain wants to interpret or deal with such things.

Free will is inherent and nonexistent at the same time. You can chose what but not why with a vague reason on how. You can only work with what is given to you. You cannot chose to think in a word you don't know until you know it. After that you can use it.

I don't believe in just fate. Your actions dictate your future. You have free will to go left or right. Suicide would be the only way to stay dormant when there is a future. You have to chose a direction or chose death.

With that being said, the only people who are exempt from this are the extremely mentally retarded. They make no choices and have absolutely free will because they have no knowledge of their existence and are probably extremely happy.
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Re: The truth is inescapable and all encompassing

Post by evolution »

SneakySniper179 wrote: March 8th, 2021, 2:55 pm I believe, weather you believe on thing is one way or another regarding life, athesm or religion, spirituality or otherwise has no bearing on what is true or false. The truth is the truth and what will happen will happen regardless of your views on how it is or should be. Views are pretty much irrelevant when compared to the truth that we most likely don't know.

I say this because regardless of if a god or hell or a heaven exist means nothing. It's just my subjective opinion. In reality my views have no bearing on what will happen in that regard. Yours don't mean anything either.
But what happens if one's views are of thee Truth?
SneakySniper179 wrote: March 8th, 2021, 2:55 pm You can wish and dream and even believe. That doesn't matter though. It just is.

I am trying to come to terms with this myself. I do believe that I find myself getting arrogant and full of myself in this regard because I believe I have a true say on matters regarding this subject.
But that is just your belief, and according to your logic this has no bearing on what is true or false.
SneakySniper179 wrote: March 8th, 2021, 2:55 pm I have though about this to an unhealthy degree. I am coming to terms with the fact that I have no control nor should I in matters regarding life. Most people who try to will end up destroying themselves or other lives.
And what are you basing this conclusion on exactly?
SneakySniper179 wrote: March 8th, 2021, 2:55 pm You have to work hard and subscribe to whatever happens not with indifference or contempt but with acceptance.
Why do you, supposedly, have to work hard?

What are you working hard for, exactly?
SneakySniper179 wrote: March 8th, 2021, 2:55 pm That's what will truly set you free.
So, if you observe and/or experience abuse, then are you saying here that you have to subscribe to this happening with acceptance?
SneakySniper179 wrote: March 8th, 2021, 2:55 pm Once you accept the way things are and what game you are playing you can learn the way to play it.
What I can and do accept is all of human beings good and right behavior, as well as everything else in the Universe. That is; the way things are.

But I do not accept the wrong and bad behavior human beings do. I accept that this is happening. I also accept that human beings, on occasions, do not even know they are doing wrong or bad. I accept as well that human beings are not even yet aware why they do what they do, right or wrong, good or bad. So, I accept that this is the way things are. However, I do not have to, and will not, just sit back continually observing and accepting the wrong and bad behavior that human beings do. So, instead I intend to keep changing what I can.
SneakySniper179 wrote: March 8th, 2021, 2:55 pm This is just my life and it may be beneficial to others but I can't tell you how to live or believe in your life because I only have control over mine.
Have you not had children?
SneakySniper179 wrote: March 8th, 2021, 2:55 pm Very little control but I am working on fixing the things I can fix. That's really all I have to say on that.
What are those things, which you see need fixing, and which you can?
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Re: The truth is inescapable and all encompassing

Post by Belindi »

SneakySniper179 wrote: March 10th, 2021, 7:54 am
Belindi wrote: March 10th, 2021, 7:23 am
SneakySniper179 wrote: March 8th, 2021, 2:55 pm I believe, weather you believe on thing is one way or another regarding life, athesm or religion, spirituality or otherwise has no bearing on what is true or false. The truth is the truth and what will happen will happen regardless of your views on how it is or should be. Views are pretty much irrelevant when compared to the truth that we most likely don't know.

I say this because regardless of if a god or hell or a heaven exist means nothing. It's just my subjective opinion. In reality my views have no bearing on what will happen in that regard. Yours don't mean anything either. You can wish and dream and even believe. That doesn't matter though. It just is.

I am trying to come to terms with this myself. I do believe that I find myself getting arrogant and full of myself in this regard because I believe I have a true say on matters regarding this subject. I have though about this to an unhealthy degree. I am coming to terms with the fact that I have no control nor should I in matters regarding life. Most people who try to will end up destroying themselves or other lives.

You have to work hard and subscribe to whatever happens not with indifference or contempt but with acceptance. That's what will truly set you free. Once you accept the way things are and what game you are playing you can learn the way to play it. This is just my life and it may be beneficial to others but I can't tell you how to live or believe in your life because I only have control over mine.

Very little control but I am working on fixing the things I can fix. That's really all I have to say on that.
The truth is the truth and what will happen will happen regardless of your views on how it is or should be. Views are pretty much irrelevant when compared to the truth that we most likely don't know.
This is determinism and that is okay however what you have to contend with is fatalism.

What will happen undoubtedly will happen whether it be caused by nature or willed by God. However determinism does not imply prediction. That means you do not know what is going to happen.

)Sneaky Sniper
I am coming to terms with the fact that I have no control nor should I in matters regarding life. Most people who try to will end up destroying themselves or other lives.
Good for you that you do not believe in so-called Free Will ! However you can approach more closely to what will probably happen in proportion as you increase your knowledge and use of reason and sound judgement. It is in fact your duty to yourself and others to increase your knowledge and use of reason and sound judgement. You have no absolute control: you have control relative to your power of knowledge and reason.
You have free will to an extent. You have choices to make changes and to do stuff. What you don't have free will over is how you are or think. That's just you but you do have the choice to choose what you put into your head and why.

I do not have free will and I do. I have the control to change to an extent but I do not have the control to choose the correlations from the causes. Meaning I can not chose how my brain wants to interpret or deal with such things.

Free will is inherent and nonexistent at the same time. You can chose what but not why with a vague reason on how. You can only work with what is given to you. You cannot chose to think in a word you don't know until you know it. After that you can use it.

I don't believe in just fate. Your actions dictate your future. You have free will to go left or right. Suicide would be the only way to stay dormant when there is a future. You have to chose a direction or chose death.

With that being said, the only people who are exempt from this are the extremely mentally retarded. They make no choices and have absolutely free will because they have no knowledge of their existence and are probably extremely happy.
You are a good thinker and at the educational stage where you seem to be you need to be learning philosophy from a proper teacher who will direct your reading matter so you don't waste your time and effort.
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Re: The truth is inescapable and all encompassing

Post by Pattern-chaser »

SneakySniper179 wrote: March 8th, 2021, 2:55 pm I believe, weather you believe on thing is one way or another regarding life, athesm or religion, spirituality or otherwise has no bearing on what is true or false. The truth is the truth and what will happen will happen regardless of your views on how it is or should be. Views are pretty much irrelevant when compared to the truth that we most likely don't know.
Pattern-chaser wrote: March 9th, 2021, 8:05 am In philosophy, we find, when we start to look deeply, that truth is not the simple concept it first appears to be. There's a lot more to it than that.

The rest of your post seems to consider objective reality: that which is, regardless of our thoughts, opinions or beliefs. And, as you say, the detailed nature of objective reality is a 'truth' we cannot knowingly know, if you see what I mean. But 'truth' remains a prickly concept, I think, especially when it is quite impossible to verify or falsify that 'truth'.

SneakySniper179 wrote: March 9th, 2021, 9:26 am I was saying in regards to whatever you believe you have to be open to it being total ********. Humans are fallible and unless you have a lot of proof you cannot say anything is anything.
Proof, like truth, is a thorny concept. Often, proof involves demonstrating the truth of something that we define (i.e. assert) to be true. In other cases, proof is dependent on the correctness of the axiom(s) (i.e. assumptions) upon which the proof is based. And, in still other cases, proof proves impossible, for many and varied reasons. So, given the difficulties we often encounter with regard to proof, must we refrain from saying "anything is anything", or must we guess or assume, as we always have done? Perhaps this latter point is what you are aiming at, here?


SneakySniper179 wrote: March 9th, 2021, 9:26 am Philosophy is just the study of human moral theory.

Philosophy is usually understood to represent rather more than just moral theory:
The Philosophy Foundation wrote:So, here’s The Philosophy Foundation’s attempt to say what philosophy is - certainly as it pertains to our aims when doing philosophy and training others to facilitate it: Philosophy, done well, should be a rigorous, structured, sequential conversation (with others or oneself) that is both collaborative and oppositional, that attempts to explore, explain and justify the structure and content of our thoughts in response to perceived problems and puzzles about reality, knowledge, value and meaning. Link to original article
Wikipedia wrote:Philosophy (from Greek philosophia, 'love of wisdom') is the study of general and fundamental questions, such as those about reason, existence, knowledge, values, mind, and language. Link to original article
Informally, I think we can say that philosophy is giving serious, considered, structured, thought to any topic.


SneakySniper179 wrote: March 9th, 2021, 9:26 am Mostly when it comes to religion and though I have much proof in my personal life I cannot prove it to others, Therefore it's theory.

In general, I think it is fair to say that the 'truth' of religion is personal and subjective, not at all like the 'truth' you are trying to address here. Religion is believed, but rarely, if ever, proven. There are reasons beside/beyond truth why someone might have religious belief, but they are outside the subject matter you have chosen to address here.


You seem to be repeating Descartes' journey here, looking for that of which you can be certain. But in the real world, outside of that which is merely theory, certainty proves hard to come by. Often certainty can prove impossible, for reasons that we can understand, but not circumvent. So we can develop philosophies that pretend to certainty, just to make ourselves feel better about it, or we can look reality in the face, and accept that there is much about it that we will never understand to the extent that we can prove stuff about it. As a generality: there is no certainty in the real world.

This topic seems to be about burying our heads in the sand, asserting truth and proof where there is none, in a desparate search for certainty. Now, I don't doubt that this perspective seems wrong to you, so tell me: where have I got it wrong? What have I misunderstood?
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Re: The truth is inescapable and all encompassing

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Mark1955 wrote: March 10th, 2021, 5:44 am Back in the seventies you could get a poster for the wall of your student digs. The wording was one of a few variations on: -

"Please give me the strength to change what I can, the endurance to put up with what I cannot change and the intelligence to know the difference", but like everything else in life every new generation has to rediscover the wheel.

The poster-slogan I most remember is "Be realistic; demand the impossible!" A bit immature, maybe, but even now, all these years later, I still remember those words, and the poster they appeared on.

Thanks for the brief nostalgia trip! 👍🙂
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Re: The truth is inescapable and all encompassing

Post by SneakySniper179 »

Pattern-chaser wrote: March 10th, 2021, 9:08 am
SneakySniper179 wrote: March 8th, 2021, 2:55 pm I believe, weather you believe on thing is one way or another regarding life, athesm or religion, spirituality or otherwise has no bearing on what is true or false. The truth is the truth and what will happen will happen regardless of your views on how it is or should be. Views are pretty much irrelevant when compared to the truth that we most likely don't know.
Pattern-chaser wrote: March 9th, 2021, 8:05 am In philosophy, we find, when we start to look deeply, that truth is not the simple concept it first appears to be. There's a lot more to it than that.

The rest of your post seems to consider objective reality: that which is, regardless of our thoughts, opinions or beliefs. And, as you say, the detailed nature of objective reality is a 'truth' we cannot knowingly know, if you see what I mean. But 'truth' remains a prickly concept, I think, especially when it is quite impossible to verify or falsify that 'truth'.

SneakySniper179 wrote: March 9th, 2021, 9:26 am I was saying in regards to whatever you believe you have to be open to it being total ********. Humans are fallible and unless you have a lot of proof you cannot say anything is anything.
Proof, like truth, is a thorny concept. Often, proof involves demonstrating the truth of something that we define (i.e. assert) to be true. In other cases, proof is dependent on the correctness of the axiom(s) (i.e. assumptions) upon which the proof is based. And, in still other cases, proof proves impossible, for many and varied reasons. So, given the difficulties we often encounter with regard to proof, must we refrain from saying "anything is anything", or must we guess or assume, as we always have done? Perhaps this latter point is what you are aiming at, here?


SneakySniper179 wrote: March 9th, 2021, 9:26 am Philosophy is just the study of human moral theory.

Philosophy is usually understood to represent rather more than just moral theory:
The Philosophy Foundation wrote:So, here’s The Philosophy Foundation’s attempt to say what philosophy is - certainly as it pertains to our aims when doing philosophy and training others to facilitate it: Philosophy, done well, should be a rigorous, structured, sequential conversation (with others or oneself) that is both collaborative and oppositional, that attempts to explore, explain and justify the structure and content of our thoughts in response to perceived problems and puzzles about reality, knowledge, value and meaning. Link to original article
Wikipedia wrote:Philosophy (from Greek philosophia, 'love of wisdom') is the study of general and fundamental questions, such as those about reason, existence, knowledge, values, mind, and language. Link to original article
Informally, I think we can say that philosophy is giving serious, considered, structured, thought to any topic.


SneakySniper179 wrote: March 9th, 2021, 9:26 am Mostly when it comes to religion and though I have much proof in my personal life I cannot prove it to others, Therefore it's theory.

In general, I think it is fair to say that the 'truth' of religion is personal and subjective, not at all like the 'truth' you are trying to address here. Religion is believed, but rarely, if ever, proven. There are reasons beside/beyond truth why someone might have religious belief, but they are outside the subject matter you have chosen to address here.


You seem to be repeating Descartes' journey here, looking for that of which you can be certain. But in the real world, outside of that which is merely theory, certainty proves hard to come by. Often certainty can prove impossible, for reasons that we can understand, but not circumvent. So we can develop philosophies that pretend to certainty, just to make ourselves feel better about it, or we can look reality in the face, and accept that there is much about it that we will never understand to the extent that we can prove stuff about it. As a generality: there is no certainty in the real world.

This topic seems to be about burying our heads in the sand, asserting truth and proof where there is none, in a desparate search for certainty. Now, I don't doubt that this perspective seems wrong to you, so tell me: where have I got it wrong? What have I misunderstood?
My point really is though it might be fun and comforting for some to point out on these things nothing really comes from it. It just goes in circles and the beliefs you get from are just ideas. You may have the truth and never know it. You may be extremely far from the truth and belief that's it and in a way you are right. It's not a total waste of time but at the end of the day it is.

No Matter what answer you get from it you won't be content and no matter how you look at it or want it to be that way, It may never be that way. Especially regarding religion. It's pointless to obsessive about it because either way it's not going anywhere and it doesn't matter until the life is over. The only reason that would matter if you were living your life wrong or you are an atheist. If you were an atheist you wouldn't give enough of a thought about it unless your main goal was to proof everyone else wrong.

An atheist who tries to prove religion wrong does so out of his own contempt for religion. In the end all that person does is get a following of other non believers and accomplishes nothing. Religious people won't budge no matter what is thrown at them and the same thing goes for atheist. So what do you really have now is a group of people sucking their own dicks to make a point nobody cares to hear.

As for the study of human morals I meant all of those things. The word I should have used was behavior and life. In conclusion the main problem is people probably like myself try to get their points out because they believe they hold value. In reality people will most likely walk out indifferent to the points being made so you are practically talking to yourself with another person and a way to validate your issues.
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Re: The truth is inescapable and all encompassing

Post by SneakySniper179 »

I think the absolute best way to get your point across is with subtly in movies or books. I will use a book crime and punishment as an example. The character wants vengeance and justice. He's gonna murder some old hag with an axe. He gets it all planned out when it happens and has his reasons she deserves to die.

He kills her and her sister. He runs out of the house and the rest of the movie is his bottled up guilt turned against him as sickness. He's withdrawn, depressed and sick laying on his bed the whole movie. Without being preachy the book serves a great purpose about morality and used a good story and interesting. It shows how you will pay the consequences for your actions one way or another.

His self serving revenge was for nothing. All it got was a greedy woman and a nice woman killed and a man so overwhelmed by his own problems it turned into a sickness. Never said that was what the book was going to be or tried to make out a point spoken, It's just what happened to him and you get to see that book and make your own opinion on it. If the writer is good you will get the same outcome.

If you don't say it and you say everything but the point you are trying to make you will get what the story was and you will incorporate what the author was trying to convey with the story into your own world therefore getting through to the reader in the proper way unlike me sitting here and telling you this is how it is.
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