Why did God create Human in the first place?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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Sculptor1
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Re: Why did God create Human in the first place?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Ecurb wrote: April 1st, 2021, 7:42 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: April 1st, 2021, 2:25 pm

It is a good question.
It is perhaps the only question.
By conrast your question contains two unexamined and unsupported assumptions.
And unless you address the assumptions, your question is meaningless.
Why? It's perfectly reasonable to discuss where premises that have not been fully supported might lead. Why wouldn't it be? Sculptor's rejection of religion is so blind that he can't stand the idea of even assuming religious principles for the sake of argument. That's such an anti-intellectual approach that it has no place on a philosophy discussion board.
You are insulting and wrong.
You attack on me is so blind you can't stand the idea I might be right.
I said nothing against religion, but "religion" cannot have a principle from which any discussion can proceed since "religion" is legion in imagination and scope. Any attempt to annswer the thread title would only lead from one form of dogma or another. And dogma is not philosophy.

I was pointing to two unsupported assumptions, which still make the thread meaningless.
You cannot begin to answer the thread title since you cannot know God, nor can you know God's motives. Whether "God" (whever that might be today) exists or not.
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Sculptor1
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Re: Why did God create Human in the first place?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Belindi wrote: April 2nd, 2021, 4:14 am If God is at least as intelligent as His Son then God will have created men because God was lonely and wanted somebody to recognise Him as an entity.

Of course, if you do not personify ideas such as 'creation' i.e. 'eternal order and meaning', then you have no need to question any of God's intentions because only persons intend. (For lovers of dogs and other animals each individual should be regarded as a person insofar as it can cerebrally intend).
God does not have a son since it is turtles all the way down.
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: Why did God create Human in the first place?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

gad-fly wrote: March 31st, 2021, 5:58 pm The topic is based on God create human, followed by asking Why? If you are a believer, you should know what he is asking you to do.

I am a believer, but not in the God who inspired the writing of the Bible or the Koran. I do not even believe in a Creator-God. So I have no answer for your "Why?". I'm not sure if I should continue, or whether I should consider this topic not to be aimed at me?
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Re: Why did God create Human in the first place?

Post by gad-fly »

Pattern-chaser wrote: April 2nd, 2021, 2:23 pm So I have no answer for your "Why?". I'm not sure if I should continue, or whether I should consider this topic not to be aimed at me?
Correct. This topic is not targeted on you.

Unlike question and answer session, a philosophy forum asks for your thought if any. The challenge is usually based on some premise which is supposed to be taken for granted by you. No thought? Fine. You want to challenge the premise? Fine too, but elsewhere please, since it would then be a different question. When? Soon enough. In the meantime, you may find it worthwhile to listen to what others are saying.
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Re: Why did God create Human in the first place?

Post by gad-fly »

Belindi wrote: April 2nd, 2021, 4:14 am If God is at least as intelligent as His Son then God will have created men because God was lonely and wanted somebody to recognise Him as an entity.

Of course, if you do not personify ideas such as 'creation' i.e. 'eternal order and meaning', then you have no need to question any of God's intentions because only persons intend. (For lovers of dogs and other animals each individual should be regarded as a person insofar as it can cerebrally intend).
God can be lonely. I would if I were marooned in my toy-land. But then, he has his Holy Family, as in that landmark cathedral in Barcelona.

You may have no need to question his intention, but you are entitled to be curious, just like after government has imposed a new tax. Or would you suggest that ignorance is the best remedy, or why bother what cannot be evaded?

I can see God beyond loneliness. How about self-aggrandizement, or playing King, Lord, or Prince Charming to his toy subjects? Sir, you are great.
Ecurb
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Re: Why did God create Human in the first place?

Post by Ecurb »

Sculptor1 wrote: April 2nd, 2021, 12:33 pm

I was pointing to two unsupported assumptions, which still make the thread meaningless.
You cannot begin to answer the thread title since you cannot know God, nor can you know God's motives. Whether "God" (whever that might be today) exists or not.
That's incorrect. Clearly people "know" things about God and His motives. Their knowledge is based on written scripture, personal religious experience, and the testimony of other people. Like all knowledge, speculation about God's motives can never be perfect, or certain -- but neither can any other knowledge.

If I were a better theologian, I could probably provide some scriptural evidence pertinent to the original question. Unfortuanately, my theology is rudimentary.
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Re: Why did God create Human in the first place?

Post by Tegularius »

Ecurb wrote: April 2nd, 2021, 5:44 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: April 2nd, 2021, 12:33 pm

I was pointing to two unsupported assumptions, which still make the thread meaningless.
You cannot begin to answer the thread title since you cannot know God, nor can you know God's motives. Whether "God" (whever that might be today) exists or not.
That's incorrect. Clearly people "know" things about God and His motives. Their knowledge is based on written scripture, personal religious experience, and the testimony of other people. Like all knowledge, speculation about God's motives can never be perfect, or certain -- but neither can any other knowledge.

If I were a better theologian, I could probably provide some scriptural evidence pertinent to the original question. Unfortuanately, my theology is rudimentary.
Hearsay in short! All it takes is a single word - considering the source - to describe god...which is okay provided you know it's only your description or whichever one you wish to adopt which gives it credence.
The earth has a skin and that skin has diseases; one of its diseases is called man ... Nietzsche
Ecurb
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Re: Why did God create Human in the first place?

Post by Ecurb »

Tegularius wrote: April 2nd, 2021, 8:32 pm

Hearsay in short! All it takes is a single word - considering the source - to describe god...which is okay provided you know it's only your description or whichever one you wish to adopt which gives it credence.
Of course it's "hearsay". But the OP stated: "The Holy Bible or the Koran should be the initial source to ruminate on this celestial question."

As I said, I'm not a theologian -- I don't really know what the Bible (or, much less, the Quran) suggests on this subject. Nonetheless, I'm confident that Theologians have speculated about it and that their speculations are supported by "evidence" (given certain postulates). One fun thing about theology is that the postulates are a given: the Bible, or the Quran. The conclusions one can draw from these postulates are often debatable (as, of course, is the truth value of the postulates themselves). It's still a reasonable and fun exercise, requiring the use of logical inference and interesting speculation.

I vaguely remember that the Bible asks, rhetorically, "Who can know the mind of God?" So being CERTAIN of the answer suggests hubris. That doesn't mean (as Sculptor suggested) that the attempt is "meaningless". We're not certain of ANY answers.
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Re: Why did God create Human in the first place?

Post by LuckyR »

Ecurb wrote: April 2nd, 2021, 5:44 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: April 2nd, 2021, 12:33 pm

I was pointing to two unsupported assumptions, which still make the thread meaningless.
You cannot begin to answer the thread title since you cannot know God, nor can you know God's motives. Whether "God" (whever that might be today) exists or not.
That's incorrect. Clearly people "know" things about God and His motives. Their knowledge is based on written scripture, personal religious experience, and the testimony of other people. Like all knowledge, speculation about God's motives can never be perfect, or certain -- but neither can any other knowledge.

If I were a better theologian, I could probably provide some scriptural evidence pertinent to the original question. Unfortuanately, my theology is rudimentary.
No. Knowledge of gods is not only unknown, it is unknowable. Knowledge of the physical can be measured. Not so much the metaphysical.
"As usual... it depends."
Tegularius
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Re: Why did God create Human in the first place?

Post by Tegularius »

Ecurb wrote: April 2nd, 2021, 8:51 pm
Tegularius wrote: April 2nd, 2021, 8:32 pm

Hearsay in short! All it takes is a single word - considering the source - to describe god...which is okay provided you know it's only your description or whichever one you wish to adopt which gives it credence.
Of course it's "hearsay". But the OP stated: "The Holy Bible or the Koran should be the initial source to ruminate on this celestial question."

As I said, I'm not a theologian -- I don't really know what the Bible (or, much less, the Quran) suggests on this subject. Nonetheless, I'm confident that Theologians have speculated about it and that their speculations are supported by "evidence" (given certain postulates). One fun thing about theology is that the postulates are a given: the Bible, or the Quran. The conclusions one can draw from these postulates are often debatable (as, of course, is the truth value of the postulates themselves). It's still a reasonable and fun exercise, requiring the use of logical inference and interesting speculation.

I vaguely remember that the Bible asks, rhetorically, "Who can know the mind of God?" So being CERTAIN of the answer suggests hubris. That doesn't mean (as Sculptor suggested) that the attempt is "meaningless". We're not certain of ANY answers.
One thing we can be certain of is that the Bible or the Quran are completely man-made creations. Whether an actual god exists is another subject altogether and remains a speculation which never ends and therefore not worth speculating on. No god ever appeared on this planet except as a fictional entity. That being the case theology cannot support any "postulates" which possess a validity beyond that of belief only. The god inclusion only exists because there remain many who still want to believe it as a psychological need...besides still being great for business.
The earth has a skin and that skin has diseases; one of its diseases is called man ... Nietzsche
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Re: Why did God create Human in the first place?

Post by Belindi »

gad-fly wrote: April 2nd, 2021, 5:31 pm
Belindi wrote: April 2nd, 2021, 4:14 am If God is at least as intelligent as His Son then God will have created men because God was lonely and wanted somebody to recognise Him as an entity.

Of course, if you do not personify ideas such as 'creation' i.e. 'eternal order and meaning', then you have no need to question any of God's intentions because only persons intend. (For lovers of dogs and other animals each individual should be regarded as a person insofar as it can cerebrally intend).
God can be lonely. I would if I were marooned in my toy-land. But then, he has his Holy Family, as in that landmark cathedral in Barcelona.

You may have no need to question his intention, but you are entitled to be curious, just like after government has imposed a new tax. Or would you suggest that ignorance is the best remedy, or why bother what cannot be evaded?

I can see God beyond loneliness. How about self-aggrandizement, or playing King, Lord, or Prince Charming to his toy subjects? Sir, you are great.
True, His intention could just as well be self-aggrandisement. However personifying God has at least this to recommend it: it helps one to pray as it is hard to pray to an impersonal idea.
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Re: Why did God create Human in the first place?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Ecurb wrote: April 2nd, 2021, 5:44 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: April 2nd, 2021, 12:33 pm

I was pointing to two unsupported assumptions, which still make the thread meaningless.
You cannot begin to answer the thread title since you cannot know God, nor can you know God's motives. Whether "God" (whever that might be today) exists or not.
That's incorrect. Clearly people "know" things about God and His motives.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Prove it!!
Their knowledge is based on written scripture, personal religious experience, and the testimony of other people. Like all knowledge, speculation about God's motives can never be perfect, or certain -- but neither can any other knowledge.
None of which has ANY basis in fact. None can be falsified. None can be verified.
Though if there were a god I can see no reason why this complete lack of verification should be the case.

If I were a better theologian, I could probably provide some scriptural evidence pertinent to the original question. Unfortuanately, my theology is rudimentary.
You grasp on reality seems rudimentary.
If you were any kind of theologian you would be inventing rubbish or borrowing rubbish from some other theologian; none of it would be beyond refutation and ridicule.
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Re: Why did God create Human in the first place?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

gad-fly wrote: April 2nd, 2021, 3:45 pm
Pattern-chaser wrote: April 2nd, 2021, 2:23 pm I'm not sure if I should continue, or whether I should consider this topic not to be aimed at me?
Correct. This topic is not targeted on you.

OK, thanks. <unsubscribe> 🙂
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Ecurb
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Re: Why did God create Human in the first place?

Post by Ecurb »

Sculptor1 wrote: April 3rd, 2021, 6:55 am


None of which has ANY basis in fact. None can be falsified. None can be verified.
Though if there were a god I can see no reason why this complete lack of verification should be the case.

You grasp on reality seems rudimentary.
If you were any kind of theologian you would be inventing rubbish or borrowing rubbish from some other theologian; none of it would be beyond refutation and ridicule.
As usual, Sculptor's approach to theology is misguided and anti-intellectual. Suppose someone were to ask,"In Anna Karenina, Kitty idolizes Anna and is in love with Vronsky. Is Kitty protected from sin because her passions are weaker than Anna's? Is Tolstoy suggesting that loving more is somehow worse than loving less?"

Sculptor (and perhaps Tegularius and LuckyR) would probably say, "This question is meaningless! Anna and Kitty are fictional characters! Neither of them has any basis in fact!"

Huh? OK. Everyone admits Kitty and Anna are fictional characters. Why should that make a question about their motives (or their creator's motives) "meaningless"? Kitty and Anna are (I suppose) what Lucky would call "metaphysical". But that doesn't mean they are "unknowable". We know them through the pages of the novel, just as we can know God through the pages of the Bible or Quran (among other possible ways of knowing).

Suggesting that we oughtn't discuss God's motives because God is "unknowable" is exactly comparable to suggesting that we oughtn't discuss Anna's or Kitty's motives because they are "unknowable". It's anti-intellectual and downright silly.
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Re: Why did God create Human in the first place?

Post by gad-fly »

Ecurb wrote: April 3rd, 2021, 10:46 am
Sculptor1 wrote: April 3rd, 2021, 6:55 am


None of which has ANY basis in fact. None can be falsified. None can be verified.
Though if there were a god I can see no reason why this complete lack of verification should be the case.

You grasp on reality seems rudimentary.
If you were any kind of theologian you would be inventing rubbish or borrowing rubbish from some other theologian; none of it would be beyond refutation and ridicule.
As usual, Sculptor's approach to theology is misguided and anti-intellectual. Suppose someone were to ask,"In Anna Karenina, Kitty idolizes Anna and is in love with Vronsky. Is Kitty protected from sin because her passions are weaker than Anna's? Is Tolstoy suggesting that loving more is somehow worse than loving less?"

Sculptor (and perhaps Tegularius and LuckyR) would probably say, "This question is meaningless! Anna and Kitty are fictional characters! Neither of them has any basis in fact!"

Huh? OK. Everyone admits Kitty and Anna are fictional characters. Why should that make a question about their motives (or their creator's motives) "meaningless"? Kitty and Anna are (I suppose) what Lucky would call "metaphysical". But that doesn't mean they are "unknowable". We know them through the pages of the novel, just as we can know God through the pages of the Bible or Quran (among other possible ways of knowing).

Suggesting that we oughtn't discuss God's motives because God is "unknowable" is exactly comparable to suggesting that we oughtn't discuss Anna's or Kitty's motives because they are "unknowable". It's anti-intellectual and downright silly.
Agreed. Even if you know absolutely nothing about God, you can still question his motive, out of curiosity or out of your need to know, like the police questioning a suspect with no record. This metaphor in no way compares God with the suspect, please. Questioning motive is no disrespect. You are so entitled as a decent human being.
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