Time for God to retire or fade away?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
gad-fly
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Time for God to retire or fade away?

Post by gad-fly »

Let me ask you to assume, without questioning, that God has created human according to his game plan, which has been fulfilled at every stage up to now. From the very beginning, he endowed human with the intelligence to use primitive biological tool like stone and stick. As our civilization advances, the plan would have us brought into digital technology, to the invention of Artificial Intelligence, which must be the next best thing to creating life, something so far remaining in God's domain. I doubt if the game plan would go that far, but this is not my present concern.

As human becomes smarter, he relies less and less on God than on himself. As an example, he used to be drenched in a downpour, but now he has the umbrella, and he may not even care under a roof. Earthquake and eclipse: he can predict without fear that the sky is falling. From the innocence of Adam and Eve, He has grown up to a stature almost as high as God's. Nothing wrong with that, except that God is about to face a looming crisis. Instead of praying for miracle, human would seek solution and cure without divine intervention. Human would say to God, "Don't call me. I call you." When? Rese assured it would be rare.

I would suggest to God, if he does not mind. Relax. The crisis, like a storm, will come and go. You have done a great job. You deserve a well-earned rest lasting much longer than the seventh day in a week. Congratulate yourself If human no longer needs your helping hand. It is great, and fine too. Let God speak: Make my day. I am retiring, and I am fading away, like old soldiers.

It is long overdue, but we should welcome the lasting embrace, love, peace, and bliss fomented between God and human, almost like between equals. As an understatement, wouldn't that be nice!
Tegularius
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Re: Time for God to retire or fade away?

Post by Tegularius »

A disease lasting for millenniums doesn't easily fade away. It's almost impossible to be successfully inoculated against a viral meme that has had its home in the human psyche for so long.
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LuckyR
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Re: Time for God to retire or fade away?

Post by LuckyR »

This makes some sense for gods in pre-Abrahamic times, before concepts like omnipotence etc became fashionable.
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chewybrian
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Re: Time for God to retire or fade away?

Post by chewybrian »

gad-fly wrote: April 8th, 2021, 6:44 pm Let me ask you to assume, without questioning, that God has created human according to his game plan, which has been fulfilled at every stage up to now. From the very beginning, he endowed human with the intelligence to use primitive biological tool like stone and stick. As our civilization advances, the plan would have us brought into digital technology, to the invention of Artificial Intelligence, which must be the next best thing to creating life, something so far remaining in God's domain. I doubt if the game plan would go that far, but this is not my present concern.

As human becomes smarter, he relies less and less on God than on himself. As an example, he used to be drenched in a downpour, but now he has the umbrella, and he may not even care under a roof. Earthquake and eclipse: he can predict without fear that the sky is falling. From the innocence of Adam and Eve, He has grown up to a stature almost as high as God's. Nothing wrong with that, except that God is about to face a looming crisis. Instead of praying for miracle, human would seek solution and cure without divine intervention. Human would say to God, "Don't call me. I call you." When? Rese assured it would be rare.

I would suggest to God, if he does not mind. Relax. The crisis, like a storm, will come and go. You have done a great job. You deserve a well-earned rest lasting much longer than the seventh day in a week. Congratulate yourself If human no longer needs your helping hand. It is great, and fine too. Let God speak: Make my day. I am retiring, and I am fading away, like old soldiers.

It is long overdue, but we should welcome the lasting embrace, love, peace, and bliss fomented between God and human, almost like between equals. As an understatement, wouldn't that be nice!
It seems like a common human mistake of conceit to think that our own time is special and important, that we are close to figuring things out. But, we only have things relatively more figured out than someone who came before us (perhaps, in some ways, though we may have also forgotten important lessons that they knew).

If knowledge is potentially infinite, then how can we say we are most of the way along to full knowledge? Against infinity, all our finite knowledge just rounds down to zero. If God is infinite, then our need for Him would not be lessened because our knowledge doubled, or doubled a million times over. All our knowledge, our logic, and our thought processes break down when infinity is in the mix. We don't even have the capacity to contemplate infinity in any useful way.

In short, either we need God or we don't. but progress in our understanding of the world, such as it is, doesn't define a boundary for the need.
"If determinism holds, then past events have conspired to cause me to hold this view--it is out of my control. Either I am right about free will, or it is not my fault that I am wrong."
Ecurb
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Re: Time for God to retire or fade away?

Post by Ecurb »

Tegularius wrote: April 8th, 2021, 11:09 pm A disease lasting for millenniums doesn't easily fade away. It's almost impossible to be successfully inoculated against a viral meme that has had its home in the human psyche for so long.
Small pox is the most deadly infectious disease in human history. In the 20th century alone it killed some 300 million people. Yet there has not been a single case anywhere in the world since 1980. Was it "easy" to get it to fade away (i.e. vaccinate the world)? Perhaps not, but it happened.
gadfly wrote:From the very beginning, he endowed human with the intelligence to use primitive biological tool like stone and stick.
The fossil record shows otherwise. It appears that our ancestors developed bipedalism before they developed large brains. The australopithicienes were small-brained, bipedal creatures. Perhaps it was their bipedalism which allowed them to use their hands to manipulate tools, which, in turn, created evolutionary advantages for larger brains. The next leap forward was the development of large frontal-lobes. Language (which develops in this part of the brain) was doubtless also a huge evolutionary advantage. Once it began to develop, the advantages of a biology adapted to its manipulation spurred rabid development of the frontal lobes (rapid in evolutionary terms).
Tegularius
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Re: Time for God to retire or fade away?

Post by Tegularius »

Tegularius wrote: April 8th, 2021, 11:09 pmA disease lasting for millenniums doesn't easily fade away. It's almost impossible to be successfully inoculated against a viral meme that has had its home in the human psyche for so long.
Ecurb wrote: April 9th, 2021, 11:59 am Small pox is the most deadly infectious disease in human history. In the 20th century alone it killed some 300 million people. Yet there has not been a single case anywhere in the world since 1980. Was it "easy" to get it to fade away (i.e. vaccinate the world)? Perhaps not, but it happened.
You'd be right if the god complex were equivalent to a case of smallpox!
gad-fly
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Re: Time for God to retire or fade away?

Post by gad-fly »

chewybrian wrote: April 9th, 2021, 7:59 am
In short, either we need God or we don't. but progress in our understanding of the world, such as it is, doesn't define a boundary for the need.
To dichotomize is a perpetual fallacy in discourse. "either or" is intellectual humbug leaving no freedom of movement, like in a police state.

Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, thought like a child, and reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up my childish ways.

As a parent, I could not avoid the wistful thought that my kids would be like Peter Pan, never growing up. Those were the days. If God is my parent, I believe he would be like me. Grow up, big, strong, and independent. Seeking my advice and help? Fine. I would gladly offer what I can. My empty nest? I know I shall see you less, and your ways would differ from mine, but don't worry. I can manage. All I want is all the best for you. I shall fade away, with your blessing.
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chewybrian
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Re: Time for God to retire or fade away?

Post by chewybrian »

gad-fly wrote: April 9th, 2021, 3:55 pm
chewybrian wrote: April 9th, 2021, 7:59 am
In short, either we need God or we don't. but progress in our understanding of the world, such as it is, doesn't define a boundary for the need.
To dichotomize is a perpetual fallacy in discourse. "either or" is intellectual humbug leaving no freedom of movement, like in a police state.

Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, thought like a child, and reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up my childish ways.

As a parent, I could not avoid the wistful thought that my kids would be like Peter Pan, never growing up. Those were the days. If God is my parent, I believe he would be like me. Grow up, big, strong, and independent. Seeking my advice and help? Fine. I would gladly offer what I can. My empty nest? I know I shall see you less, and your ways would differ from mine, but don't worry. I can manage. All I want is all the best for you. I shall fade away, with your blessing.
I was not focused at all on the either/or, but only trying sum up. My point is that we don't meaningfully get closer to God, any more than we get closer to infinity. If I set out today on a journey of "infinity" miles, then no matter how far I go today, I still have "infinity" miles left to travel. If I set out on a journey toward infinite knowledge, no matter what I learn, I still effectively know nothing on an infinite scale. This holds true individually, or as a society or species.

My point is that we can't compare ourselves to God, at infinite scale, and say that we no longer need Him because we are becoming God-like, because this is beyond our scope. I like what you say regarding a parent, but I don't think a parent is a good analogy to a perfect God, if there is such. If we could somehow access this perfect God, it's hard to see how our need would fade, as we would always remain so far from perfection.
"If determinism holds, then past events have conspired to cause me to hold this view--it is out of my control. Either I am right about free will, or it is not my fault that I am wrong."
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: Time for God to retire or fade away?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

gad-fly wrote: April 9th, 2021, 3:55 pm To dichotomize is a perpetual fallacy in discourse. "either or" is intellectual humbug...

I think it's more usually called binary thinking, and, correctly applied, it's a very powerful tool. Binary thinking is the intellectual power-house that enables science, a very powerful and successful tool, as we all know. But when it is mis-applied, it leads to the negative effects you describe. The secret is simple: use the right tool for the job. Do not apply binary thinking where there are more than two possible options or outcomes. ... Oh, and be careful when we try to reconfigure a complex, real-world, multi-facetted problem into a binary proposition - such reconfiguration is not always possible or valid.
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Sculptor1
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Re: Time for God to retire or fade away?

Post by Sculptor1 »

gad-fly wrote: April 8th, 2021, 6:44 pm Let me ask you to assume, without questioning, that God has created human according to his game plan, which has been fulfilled at every stage up to now.
If this is the case then we have never had any use for god, since we are so obviously powerless to act for or against his wishes, they are determined since the beginning and shall be till the end.
Ecurb
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Re: Time for God to retire or fade away?

Post by Ecurb »

gad-fly wrote: April 8th, 2021, 6:44 pm Let me ask you to assume, without questioning, that God has created human according to his game plan, which has been fulfilled at every stage up to now.
God is Bill Belichick! Who knew?
gad-fly
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Re: Time for God to retire or fade away?

Post by gad-fly »

chewybrian wrote: April 9th, 2021, 5:22 pm
My point is that we can't compare ourselves to God, at infinite scale, and say that we no longer need Him because we are becoming God-like, because this is beyond our scope.
Fear to compare with superior being can be inferiority complex. Restriction to exercise such comparison is hegemony. You can do better than your mentor or Big Brother. You can take the sky as the limit. Why not? To find lame excuse is cowardice.

Infinity is a mathematical concept with little room in religion. More appropriate to talk about eternity. To baffle or prove the existence of infinity and eternity is a waste of time.

"Either or" taken to extreme is dichotomy: Black or white. allowing no color, and not even grey.

i am wary of the pitfall and diversion when I began this thread. Hence I began with "assume without questioning". Questioning on the premise can be taken elsewhere.

Back to the topic. Your mentor or Big Brother or Big Sister did or will fade away? Or would you not allow that? If God will never die, fine, but we can allow him and us more and more breathing space. The two can settle down as one.
Fellowmater
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Re: Time for God to retire or fade away?

Post by Fellowmater »

Psalm 46:10 "Be still and know that I am God" I know there is a God because I have a relationship with Him, He speaks to my heart. I feel His presence with me every day. You say you want a better relationship with Him, but then you say you're not sure if He is real so that makes me wonder if you have any relationship with Him at all. What we hear is affected not only by our relationship with Him but our understanding of who He is. Do you listen as an intimate friend or a distant friend? The best way to know Him is to read His Word, that is one way He speaks to us. Spiritual books are good, but no other book will teach what He is like or help to know Him better than the Bible, His word.
popeye1945
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Re: Time for God to retire or fade away?

Post by popeye1945 »

Gods will never fade away as long as the majority of the population does not have an intellectual life, belief is really effortless as long as you don't allow contradiction, think the good old U, S, of A--lol!!!
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Shane Mc
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Re: Time for God to retire or fade away?

Post by Shane Mc »

I think that as long as man is afraid of death, there will always be gods and afterlife. It has been my observation that man needs the fear of death to believe in an afterlife which then leads to the question of who gets to enjoy the afterlife. You must then have a good vs. evil judge or god. Until man is comfortable with the idea of a single life I don’t think we will ever eradicate this disease. Besides the churches are starting to change with the times, the Catholic Church is changing its stance on evolution to meet what science is saying.
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