Time for God to retire or fade away?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
gad-fly
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Re: Time for God to retire or fade away?

Post by gad-fly »

popeye1945 wrote: April 12th, 2021, 5:55 am Gods will never fade away as long as the majority of the population does not have an intellectual life, belief is really effortless as long as you don't allow contradiction, think the good old U, S, of A--lol!!!
Inter-dependence and mutual influence in the relationship between human and God has and will continue to undergo evolvement, at the same time as each is evolving on its own. The relationship mentioned above may intensify, weaken, fade, or even die. It is not the focus here to pass the blame or trace responsibility, on not being converted, freewill given to stay unconverted, and so on.

Both God and human are evolving. On the former, you can find strong evidence when comparing the Old and New Testaments.
popeye1945
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Re: Time for God to retire or fade away?

Post by popeye1945 »

Like I said, when the majority of the population has no intellectual life. Christianity is a self-willed lobotomy.
Fellowmater
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Re: Time for God to retire or fade away?

Post by Fellowmater »

Shane Mc wrote: April 12th, 2021, 9:02 am I think that as long as man is afraid of death, there will always be gods and afterlife. It has been my observation that man needs the fear of death to believe in an afterlife which then leads to the question of who gets to enjoy the afterlife. You must then have a good vs. evil judge or god. Until man is comfortable with the idea of a single life I don’t think we will ever eradicate this disease. Besides the churches are starting to change with the times, the Catholic Church is changing its stance on evolution to meet what science is saying.
I'm not quite updated with the current standing of the Catholic Church in its stance on evolution. Can you please share where you read about this? Thank you.
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LuckyR
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Re: Time for God to retire or fade away?

Post by LuckyR »

Fellowmater wrote: April 13th, 2021, 9:38 am
Shane Mc wrote: April 12th, 2021, 9:02 am I think that as long as man is afraid of death, there will always be gods and afterlife. It has been my observation that man needs the fear of death to believe in an afterlife which then leads to the question of who gets to enjoy the afterlife. You must then have a good vs. evil judge or god. Until man is comfortable with the idea of a single life I don’t think we will ever eradicate this disease. Besides the churches are starting to change with the times, the Catholic Church is changing its stance on evolution to meet what science is saying.
I'm not quite updated with the current standing of the Catholic Church in its stance on evolution. Can you please share where you read about this? Thank you.
Also interested.
"As usual... it depends."
Tegularius
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Re: Time for God to retire or fade away?

Post by Tegularius »

It's basically a matter of an imaginary being considered real for most of history becoming imaginary once again. God never solved any problems except as justification to do something humans didn't have the authority for. We have leveraged our capital based in the god concept which never requires repayment.
The earth has a skin and that skin has diseases; one of its diseases is called man ... Nietzsche
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Papus79
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Re: Time for God to retire or fade away?

Post by Papus79 »

If the concept of a theistic deity, as outlined in books like the Bible or Quran, gives cultures a means to organize themselves, socially network, proof of character in other community members through familiarity, and establish basic protocol in terms of how they interact then it's still serving some of what's is most likely intended purpose and thus it will go away when it's fully depleted - which IMHO would probably require little short of the end of adversity and harsh competition for resources (maybe a Star Trek luxury communist federation where anything you need can either be replicated or Holodecked will be where that ends).
Humbly watching Youtube in Universe 25. - Me
gad-fly
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Re: Time for God to retire or fade away?

Post by gad-fly »

Tegularius wrote: April 13th, 2021, 4:44 pm It's basically a matter of an imaginary being considered real for most of history becoming imaginary once again. God never solved any problems except as justification to do something humans didn't have the authority for. We have leveraged our capital based in the god concept which never requires repayment.
Fading away presumes the weakening of continuing presence and influence. Fading away is a matter of degree, not a matter of yes and no. As an example, our parents fade away in the process of us growing up. It is another issue whether we pay them back, or whether they so deserve.
Tegularius
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Re: Time for God to retire or fade away?

Post by Tegularius »

gad-fly wrote: April 14th, 2021, 11:53 am
Tegularius wrote: April 13th, 2021, 4:44 pm It's basically a matter of an imaginary being considered real for most of history becoming imaginary once again. God never solved any problems except as justification to do something humans didn't have the authority for. We have leveraged our capital based in the god concept which never requires repayment.
Fading away presumes the weakening of continuing presence and influence. Fading away is a matter of degree, not a matter of yes and no. As an example, our parents fade away in the process of us growing up. It is another issue whether we pay them back, or whether they so deserve.
That's correct and why god is becoming imaginary fading slowly into the sunset as an unnecessary appendage which never accomplished anything!
The earth has a skin and that skin has diseases; one of its diseases is called man ... Nietzsche
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Dogday33
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Re: Time for God to retire or fade away?

Post by Dogday33 »

As long as we are looking for ways to mass kill each other with the only goal is to achieve the highest body count possible we will need God. A belief in a power greater than oneself offers comfort and peace in times of senseless suffering grief and horror.
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LuckyR
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Re: Time for God to retire or fade away?

Post by LuckyR »

Dogday33 wrote: April 14th, 2021, 8:08 pm As long as we are looking for ways to mass kill each other with the only goal is to achieve the highest body count possible we will need God. A belief in a power greater than oneself offers comfort and peace in times of senseless suffering grief and horror.
True, the concept of gods can do that, though other concepts can as well.
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Fanman
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Re: Time for God to retire or fade away?

Post by Fanman »

I think that belief can inspire people to do both positive and negative things depending on their nature. But when people overcome insurmountable odds. Can we only look to their beliefs as the cause of their capability? Is it their strength of character, or could it be that they have something, a force of some kind behind them? It is easy to dismiss such things because there is little or no empirical evidence for them. But how would (or could) we find empirical evidence for an invisible force that acts upon the will? Someone can believe they can overcome things or circumstances, but there is a difference between believing we can do something and doing it. That is the middle ground, where people use things like “God” or “the supernatural” as an explanation or justification. They act as a bridge between the potential and the actualisation.
Theists believe, agnostics ponder and atheists analyse. A little bit of each should get us the right answer.
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Shane Mc
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Re: Time for God to retire or fade away?

Post by Shane Mc »

It was on pewforum, a religious website. I’ve also heard it In a couple of documentaries.
popeye1945
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Re: Time for God to retire or fade away?

Post by popeye1945 »

I suspect that religious people function in their decision making by relying upon their emotions. With religious friends, they tend to state what they feel to be the case, rather what they think to be the case. If questioned about a certain decision, they again relie upon an emotional response. I've also been struck with the awareness that through their belief system they acquire a community, or an extended family if you will. Friends who turn born again often drop their old friends for believer friends and after some time, live in this social bubble of believers. Some at least, actively protect their beliefs, by avoiding reading anything that might challenge their belief system, even indirectly.

Philosophically belief is less energy consuming, it takes less energy to accept, take visually acquired perceptual knowledge it is automatic, it takes extra effort to question what seems apparent at a first impression. Independent thinking is also less rewarding I think when your part of a group. I think the dopamine/ the feel-good drug/chemical is in greater abundance. This is all in addition to, what the given mythology/religion promises its believer. The widespread emotional contagion is very up lifing surely increasing the desire for more. What else offers such a package, atheist/ critical thinkers, do not tend to groupthink or gather for support. No god isn't going anywhere real soon, it lives in the intellectual doldrums of any great majority within society.
Fanman
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Re: Time for God to retire or fade away?

Post by Fanman »

popeye1945,
I suspect that religious people function in their decision making by relying upon their emotions. With religious friends, they tend to state what they feel to be the case, rather what they think to be the case. If questioned about a certain decision, they again relie upon an emotional response. I've also been struck with the awareness that through their belief system they acquire a community, or an extended family if you will. Friends who turn born again often drop their old friends for believer friends and after some time, live in this social bubble of believers. Some at least, actively protect their beliefs, by avoiding reading anything that might challenge their belief system, even indirectly.
I think that in general, you are quite correct. And the things you say about community, friends and family are right. Religions offer a shared ideal, where large groups of people work towards the same goal. Salvation and “right-living” in whatever forms their religion offers them. I agree that religious people feel more than they think, but I think that is because the doctrines work upon the heart rather than the head. Religions are all about examining the heart. The mind is just expected to blindly follow along. If given the choice between faith and critical thinking, they will choose faith all of the time.
Philosophically belief is less energy consuming, it takes less energy to accept, take visually acquired perceptual knowledge it is automatic, it takes extra effort to question what seems apparent at a first impression. Independent thinking is also less rewarding I think when your part of a group. I think the dopamine/ the feel-good drug/chemical is in greater abundance. This is all in addition to, what the given mythology/religion promises its believer. The widespread emotional contagion is very up lifing surely increasing the desire for more. What else offers such a package, atheist/ critical thinkers, do not tend to groupthink or gather for support. No god isn't going anywhere real soon, it lives in the intellectual doldrums of any great majority within society.
Well said. Although I think there are some religious people that do seek to bring God into the realms of logic. Attempting to create logical arguments for its existence. But yes, believing is less taxing than critical thinking. Critical thinking will highlight the inconsistencies and impossibilities in the texts. But I wouldn't knock vertical thinking too much, because belief in a higher power (not necessarily the God of any organised religion) can be beneficial to us, and allow us to see things in a larger context than pure, rational, critical thinking. There is beauty and hope in the notion of a higher power that nothing else can offer. I find that vertical thinking "opens doors", whereas lateral thinking "closes them". I agree that God isn't going anywhere real soon, but if science continues to make ground-breaking discoveries and advances, the room for religious beliefs to manoeuvre will become smaller and smaller. Until God is a completely non-viable idea.
Theists believe, agnostics ponder and atheists analyse. A little bit of each should get us the right answer.
popeye1945
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Re: Time for God to retire or fade away?

Post by popeye1945 »

Hi Fanman.

Excellent, From my limited experience of the faithful, at least some of those people I find not capable of an intellectual life. the repetition and written in stone text appeals to those who function on a level of perhaps an excellent memory, and what they memorize they do want it changing. I also believe that although these people can find bliss in a fantasy life, and in the short term it has a positive effect upon them, the modern world just might not survive the divisiveness and irrationality of these conflicting faiths. May Ali behead you if you disagree with me---lol!!
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