Why did God create the universe?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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AverageBozo
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Re: Why did God create the universe?

Post by AverageBozo »

Zosimus wrote: July 2nd, 2021, 9:09 am
AverageBozo wrote: July 1st, 2021, 2:47 pm
AverageBozo wrote: June 29th, 2021, 11:19 am
Zosimus wrote: June 29th, 2021, 7:32 am
But, can I not know with certainty that the square root of 2 is an irrational number or that the square of a hypotenuse of a right triangle is equal to the sum of the squares of the other two sides?
Are these inferences or mathematical equivalents?

Why do you say that you can know with certainty that mathematics is justified?
The above are not gotcha questions, Zosimus. I sincerely would like to hear your thoughts on the above two as well as addressing the fact that math is actually a language, and as such its statements are meant as definitions to be accepted a priori as just a part of the structure of math.
If math is a language, please indicate how I can use math to ask someone a question.

If you cannot use math to ask someone a question, please identify some human language in which you cannot ask someone a question.

In case this is not obvious, I am contending that mathematics is not a language.

The only reason I can imagine that someone disagrees with math would be that someone disagrees with one of Peano's postulates. Kindly indicate which one you disagree with.

Or perhaps you are objecting to the idea that an ant is an insect because the definition of "insect" is purposely designed to include ants. And thus, indirectly, trying to say that a rational number is not logically justified because our only justification is that we defined rational numbers in a specific way.
Thanks. Your response helps me to understand why it is that I believe what I do. A whale is a mammal because “mammal” is designed to include whales. Mathematics is also justified by definition. Thank you.
Atla
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Re: Why did God create the universe?

Post by Atla »

Zosimus wrote: July 2nd, 2021, 8:57 am There is no evidence-free idea. This is a straw man argument on your part.

Let's start again right from the beginning. Someone said, "There's no evidence for God." This is false. As Hempel's Paradox shows, the non-existence of the tooth fairy is actually evidence for God, even though atheists stupidly run around saying, "The tooth fairy doesn't exist, so there is no God."
...
Sorry, but I'll continue to just address the first thing in your posts that I disagree with, and skip the rest.

If you look up Hempel's paradox, you'll probably find a long list of all the ways how some people have rejected it as a valid argument. I'd say presenting its validity as fact is intellectual dishonesty.

I think the most obvious problem with it is that when we are investingating ravens, we are investigating ravens not tooth fairies, the paradox is invalid. But here's a much simpler refutation:
Let's assume that the world is infinite, or big enough that it comes across as infinite to us. We investigate all the things in existence, to look for God.

We start with 0% likelihood for God. Then we find a tooth fairy, which is not God. Therefore the likelihood of God increases by 1/infinite which is 0. 0%+0% is still 0%, oh no. So the tooth fairy was no evidence after all.

I guess this is why science works by falsification.
True philosophy points to the Moon
Fanman
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Re: Why did God create the universe?

Post by Fanman »

One of the benefits of evidence is that it allows us to make informed choices. Let’s say, for example, that we suspected our partner of cheating on us. They happened to leave their email account open. And when we browsed them, we find personal emails over one year. Which show they were having a sexual relationship with someone else. Not only would the emails make us aware of what was going on and confirm our suspicions. But also allow us to make an informed choice about the future of the relationship. In a situation like that, the importance of evidence speaks for itself.
Theists believe, agnostics ponder and atheists analyse. A little bit of each should get us the right answer.
gad-fly
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Re: Why did God create the universe?

Post by gad-fly »

Fanman wrote: July 7th, 2021, 6:00 am One of the benefits of evidence is that it allows us to make informed choices. Let’s say, for example, that we suspected our partner of cheating on us. They happened to leave their email account open. And when we browsed them, we find personal emails over one year. Which show they were having a sexual relationship with someone else. Not only would the emails make us aware of what was going on and confirm our suspicions. But also allow us to make an informed choice about the future of the relationship. In a situation like that, the importance of evidence speaks for itself.
Evidence is important in all walks of life, or in staying put. Evidence, being deduction, is based on occurred events which must be factual. Deduction varies according to whoever is drawing it. Say a terminal cancer patient recovers. One evidence can be divine intervention, while another may be the advancement of medical science. Comparatively, it cannot be said which is right or wrong, but only which is stronger. Some evidence may be so flimsy as to defy common sense.

Faith is self-actuation of belief. It would be a miserable world without faith. You cannot avoid either. Having said that, faith should give way when faced with evidence.
EricPH
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Re: Why did God create the universe?

Post by EricPH »

gad-fly wrote: June 4th, 2021, 11:33 pm My threat "Why did God create human in the first place?"
If you were to design a racing car; you would probably have one purpose in mind - To win races. The evolution of racing cars over the last century has been driven with the one aim of winning.

If an all knowing God was to create the universe and life, would he have one greatest good purpose to do so?

Could God create anything greater than children in his own image, nature and likeness?

Can there be any greater good purpose for God to create children; than for God to love each and everyone of them as he loves himself?

Can God love us more than he loves himself?

Just a collection of words to challenge the mind to think.
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LuckyR
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Re: Why did God create the universe?

Post by LuckyR »

EricPH wrote: October 31st, 2021, 6:56 pm
gad-fly wrote: June 4th, 2021, 11:33 pm My threat "Why did God create human in the first place?"
If you were to design a racing car; you would probably have one purpose in mind - To win races. The evolution of racing cars over the last century has been driven with the one aim of winning.

If an all knowing God was to create the universe and life, would he have one greatest good purpose to do so?

Could God create anything greater than children in his own image, nature and likeness?

Can there be any greater good purpose for God to create children; than for God to love each and everyone of them as he loves himself?

Can God love us more than he loves himself?

Just a collection of words to challenge the mind to think.
Humans supposing the working of the minds of gods isn't very flattering to gods.
"As usual... it depends."
gad-fly
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Re: Why did God create the universe?

Post by gad-fly »

LuckyR wrote: November 1st, 2021, 2:39 am
EricPH wrote: October 31st, 2021, 6:56 pm
gad-fly wrote: June 4th, 2021, 11:33 pm My threat "Why did God create human in the first place?"
If you were to design a racing car; you would probably have one purpose in mind - To win races. The evolution of racing cars over the last century has been driven with the one aim of winning.

If an all knowing God was to create the universe and life, would he have one greatest good purpose to do so?

Could God create anything greater than children in his own image, nature and likeness?

Can there be any greater good purpose for God to create children; than for God to love each and everyone of them as he loves himself?

Can God love us more than he loves himself?

Just a collection of words to challenge the mind to think.
Humans supposing the working of the minds of gods isn't very flattering to gods.
To respond to Lucky R, I would say that since we are entitled to freedom of expression, whether flattering to God or not is a moot point. It would be sad to see God deteriorated as an idol allowing no questioning.

To respond to EricPH, you probably have one purpose, but you probably have more than one purpose. i can suggest a purpose: Boredom. Like us, or us like him, God may be a social animal, or rather, a complex social animal. He can also be a superstar who cannot be so described without his fans. As to the rest of his questions, the answer is Yes, they can, probably. Can you love yourself more than you love your spouse, or the other way round? Does it matter?
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LuckyR
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Re: Why did God create the universe?

Post by LuckyR »

gad-fly wrote: November 2nd, 2021, 12:08 pm
LuckyR wrote: November 1st, 2021, 2:39 am
EricPH wrote: October 31st, 2021, 6:56 pm
gad-fly wrote: June 4th, 2021, 11:33 pm My threat "Why did God create human in the first place?"
If you were to design a racing car; you would probably have one purpose in mind - To win races. The evolution of racing cars over the last century has been driven with the one aim of winning.

If an all knowing God was to create the universe and life, would he have one greatest good purpose to do so?

Could God create anything greater than children in his own image, nature and likeness?

Can there be any greater good purpose for God to create children; than for God to love each and everyone of them as he loves himself?

Can God love us more than he loves himself?

Just a collection of words to challenge the mind to think.
Humans supposing the working of the minds of gods isn't very flattering to gods.
To respond to Lucky R, I would say that since we are entitled to freedom of expression, whether flattering to God or not is a moot point. It would be sad to see God deteriorated as an idol allowing no questioning.
Oh, I agree with the idea of pondering the workings of gods. Why not, they're a human construction, why wouldn't humans comment on them? However, if you are trying to sell omniscience, why (as a mere far-from-omniscient human) sound dogmatic about the inner mind workings of omniscient gods? It shoots your own argument in the foot.
"As usual... it depends."
EricPH
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Re: Why did God create the universe?

Post by EricPH »

Oh, I agree with the idea of pondering the workings of gods. Why not, they're a human construction,
Can you give an alternative to a creator God? How did the universe and life come to be; purely by natural causes?
gad-fly
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Re: Why did God create the universe?

Post by gad-fly »

LuckyR wrote: November 2nd, 2021, 12:55 pm
gad-fly wrote: November 2nd, 2021, 12:08 pm
LuckyR wrote: November 1st, 2021, 2:39 am
EricPH wrote: October 31st, 2021, 6:56 pm

If you were to design a racing car; you would probably have one purpose in mind - To win races. The evolution of racing cars over the last century has been driven with the one aim of winning.

If an all knowing God was to create the universe and life, would he have one greatest good purpose to do so?

Could God create anything greater than children in his own image, nature and likeness?

Can there be any greater good purpose for God to create children; than for God to love each and everyone of them as he loves himself?

Can God love us more than he loves himself?

Just a collection of words to challenge the mind to think.
Humans supposing the working of the minds of gods isn't very flattering to gods.
To respond to Lucky R, I would say that since we are entitled to freedom of expression, whether flattering to God or not is a moot point. It would be sad to see God deteriorated as an idol allowing no questioning.
Oh, I agree with the idea of pondering the workings of gods. Why not, they're a human construction, why wouldn't humans comment on them? However, if you are trying to sell omniscience, why (as a mere far-from-omniscient human) sound dogmatic about the inner mind workings of omniscient gods? It shoots your own argument in the foot.
No, I am not selling that. I agree with you: Humans supposing the working of the minds of gods isn't very flattering to gods.
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LuckyR
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Re: Why did God create the universe?

Post by LuckyR »

EricPH wrote: November 2nd, 2021, 2:08 pm
Oh, I agree with the idea of pondering the workings of gods. Why not, they're a human construction,
Can you give an alternative to a creator God? How did the universe and life come to be; purely by natural causes?
Uummm... anything not a creator god? To answer your question: I don't know, just as you don't know.
"As usual... it depends."
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Sy Borg
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Re: Why did God create the universe?

Post by Sy Borg »

EricPH wrote: November 2nd, 2021, 2:08 pmCan you give an alternative to a creator God? How did the universe and life come to be; purely by natural causes?
While, as Lucky noted, no one knows for sure, "purely by natural causes" would seem a better contender than a deity posited in the Iron Age Middle East.
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paradox
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Re: Why did God create the universe?

Post by paradox »

EricPH wrote: November 2nd, 2021, 2:08 pm
Oh, I agree with the idea of pondering the workings of gods. Why not, they're a human construction,
Can you give an alternative to a creator God? How did the universe and life come to be; purely by natural causes?
No because we would have to search for "first cause" within "purely by natural causes", which if found, is then again God.

Think of it as having unlimited closed doors to open, which ever you open there is a poster that says "God", you can't escape it.

I think a better question would be, is that God a thing or being?
Tegularius
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Re: Why did God create the universe?

Post by Tegularius »

If something created anything, it would have been the other way around
The earth has a skin and that skin has diseases; one of its diseases is called man ... Nietzsche
EricPH
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Joined: October 22nd, 2021, 11:26 am

Re: Why did God create the universe?

Post by EricPH »

I agree with you: Humans supposing the working of the minds of gods isn't very flattering to gods.
The only way to respond to the thread title is to assume there is a God; the creator of all that is seen and unseen.

Are there thousands of gods, or do thousands of religions choose to worship the same god, but in thousands of ways? Christianity comes to mind, it would make far more sense if there were a thousand Jesus Christs. Despite all our differences, the same God hears all our prayers. We are all created by the same God; and we have a duty to care for all of God's creation; this means caring for each other despite all our differences.

We can look at the amazing advances that science has given our world; yet we cannot grasp the meaning of the greatest commandments; to love God and all our neighbours. Even if we ignore the greatest commandment, the second still makes sense to love all our neighbours as we love ourselves.

We search for a greatest good meaning of 'One God'.
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