Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑September 25th, 2021, 12:31 pm
psyreporter wrote: ↑September 25th, 2021, 9:00 am
My logic has indicated that
perception is not just pre-conscious (i.e. only relevant to consciousness) but also pre-physical...
Perception is an action taken by an
embodied mind (or an
enminded body, if you prefer; it's the same thing). The process of perception begins with sensation, which comes from our bio-physical senses, so it cannot possibly be "pre=physical".
My apologies for the late reply.
Did you consider my logic that indicates that a pattern (pattern in general or '
patternness') is
bound by perception on a fundamental nature level, and that as representative of
meaning that must necessarily underlay a pattern for it to be possible, perception-as-signifier must logically precede a pattern on a fundamental level?
The tiniest deviation from pure randomness is a pattern and implies
meaning.
Do you believe that a pattern be considered without meaning? If not, do you agree with the above logic that indicates that perception-as-signifier must precede a pattern on a fundamental level?
--
With regard sensation (sensing) to originate from a bio-physical process. If that were to be so, that which is sensing (i.e. the 'conscious I experience') must have known what to sense beforehand by the simple logic that the act of sensing is performing an evaluation of something that is external of itself.
If that 'inner experience' (conscious I) wouldn't know what to sense before it had ever sensed, it simply couldn't have existed in the first place because it wouldn't have any information to base an experience on.
Therefore, sensing is primary and must precede the individual, which includes a bio-physical sense process.
Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑September 25th, 2021, 12:31 pm
psyreporter wrote: ↑September 25th, 2021, 9:00 am
...the core qualia that underlays physical reality, logically manifests itself as consciousness.
Qualia is an "ineffable conscious experience". There are those who suggest that the universe is fundamentally data, and it seems you are a member of their community. You seem to be saying that the
experience of perception underlies physical reality. Can you explain if I have this right, and how/why you think this might be so?
No, the argument is that perception-as-signifier (
for patterns and
of meaning) underlies physical reality and that conscious experience as it has manifested in a human, is merely a product of that potential.
From this perspective, the 'meaning' that perception would signify in the form of a pattern can be denoted to be 'good per se' (good that cannot be valued or good cannot be a pattern). It is a good of which its nature differs from subjective good similar to how mathematical
potential infinity differs from the concept
actual infinity (beginningless infinity that cannot be counted), as discussed in the topic
Endless and Infinite.
What preceded an individual on a fundamental level logically lays beyond it from the perspective of the individual. That explains the meaningfulness of morality since it would imply that 'good per se' is the purpose of life (meaning of life). The origin of life ('good per se') is also the purpose of life.
--
With regard good being stronger than evil. As philosopher Bertrand Russel has said:
truth is essentially neutral, it is the same for anyone.
(2020)
The politics of logic - Philosophy at war: nationalism and logical analysis
Russell’s antiwar protest was so extensive that it would cost him both his job and, for a time, his personal freedom. His theoretical antidote to the irrational, sectarian vitriol between European nations was to try to show how logic could function as an international language that could be used impartially and dispassionately to adjudicate disputes. His theoretical antidote was, in other words, analytic philosophy.
‘The truth, whatever it may be, is the same in England, France, and Germany … it is in its essence neutral’
https://aeon.co/essays/philosophy-at-wa ... l-analysis
Within the context of reason, there is no place for evil. There is only 'good' (truth, etc). Evil is
corruption of good.
Truth is the same as 'good per se' or 'pure meaning' of which the above logic indicates that it precedes or underlays physical reality. Therefore, as the potential for friendship between almost any animal indicates (I just saw a video showing a man that became
friends with a pack of wild Hyenas), reason beyond value enables alignment for 'good' and it provides potential to allow humans, animals and plants to
culturally develop into a moral being.
Philosopher
Henry David Thoreau once said the following about the enhancement of human ethical practice in general:
wrote:"Whatever my own practice may be, I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other when they came in contact with the more civilized."
He was right. Millennials (Gen Y) have been driving a global shift away from eating animals and Gen Z is accelerating that shift to veganism.
(2018)
Millennials Are Driving The Worldwide Shift Away From Meat
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelpel ... from-meat/
It may be a sign of higher intelligence when the human shows potential for moral consideration. As such, it can be demanded on behalf of human dignity. A lack of care or moral consideration can become unjust when the potential for it (in an individual) can be made evident.
It could be an argument that humans should choose wisely when they have the capacity to do so. A greater capacity in intelligence and moral consideration comes with new responsibilities, and as such, the human being naturally evolves culturally into a moral being (reasonable being).
--
I personally would wonder: if an advanced alien specie would visit earth with their space craft. Will they even damage a blade of grass or hurt a bug, or will it notice the lady bug on a blade of grass and be aware of the amazing life path of that animal, and thus not even touch it or be technically prepared to allow optimal respect for other life?
Barbarians reflect on cruelty in nature to fuel cruelty. Moral beings reflect on reason to become reasonable. The potential for philosophy shows what path is right to choose.
According to philosopher Aristotle, philosophical contemplation (
eudaimonia) is the greatest virtue (highest human good). It is the addressing of the simple question 'what is good?'.