There is No such thing as Death

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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UniversalAlien
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There is No such thing as Death

Post by UniversalAlien »

This is not meant to be religious but might be taken to be mystical - Because it reflects concepts such as immortality and rebirth.

This post is based upon the thinking of Max Planck, the famous Nobel Prize winning physicist who gave us Quantum Mechanics
- And specifically my favorite quote by Planck:

“I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.”
― Max Planck


Again 'consciousness is fundamental' - No beginning, no end, but rather a fundamental state of conscious existence that is
the be all of all that exists - The past, present, and future is backed by an ever existing state of consciousness :!:

Now assuming, just for the sake of argument, that Planck is correct - Is death even possible :?:

How can any form of life actually die, discounting the actual physical body which we know will eventually pass on
- But the ever existent conscious state that the physical body came from will always exist and the conscious essence that the
body came from is ever present.

So we Humans, or any life form for that matter, can not die completely - It simply returns to the primal and forever state of
consciousness

That said - Can we postulate the existence of a real afterlife where our ego specific conscious mind can maintain itself
and voluntarily choose to return and be reborn :?:

And finally do you know of anyone, including yourself, who believes, and even better still has evidence of living before :?:
Good_Egg
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Re: There is No such thing as Death

Post by Good_Egg »

Software needs hardware. The idea that the software mysteriously goes somewhere else when the hardware it's running on is dismantled seems like a misunderstanding of the nature of software.
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: There is No such thing as Death

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Good_Egg wrote: May 2nd, 2022, 6:21 am Software needs hardware. The idea that the software mysteriously goes somewhere else when the hardware it's running on is dismantled seems like a misunderstanding of the nature of software.
OK, and by this logic one can also clearly see the possibility that software can migrate (or be migrated) to another platform if its original one disappears.
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Good_Egg
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Re: There is No such thing as Death

Post by Good_Egg »

Pattern-chaser wrote: May 2nd, 2022, 7:17 am ... by this logic one can also clearly see the possibility that software can migrate (or be migrated) to another platform if its original one disappears.
Yes - either be migrated ( before the original hardware goes down ) or be rewritten by the Great Programmer (either before or afterwards).
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AmericanKestrel
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Re: There is No such thing as Death

Post by AmericanKestrel »

Good_Egg wrote: May 2nd, 2022, 6:21 am Software needs hardware. The idea that the software mysteriously goes somewhere else when the hardware it's running on is dismantled seems like a misunderstanding of the nature of software.
This seems like air needs lungs to exist. Sound needs ears. Lungs and ears are biological and will die eventually, and vanish into earth, where all biological forms go. The body is merely a temporary holding place that gets its OS installed by consciousness.
"The Serpent did not lie."
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Re: There is No such thing as Death

Post by stevie »

UniversalAlien wrote: May 2nd, 2022, 5:06 am - And specifically my favorite quote by Planck:

“I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.”
― Max Planck
Same on Max Planck! :roll:
mankind ... must act and reason and believe; though they are not able, by their most diligent enquiry, to satisfy themselves concerning the foundation of these operations, or to remove the objections, which may be raised against them [Hume]
stevie
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Re: There is No such thing as Death

Post by stevie »

UniversalAlien wrote: May 2nd, 2022, 5:06 am - And specifically my favorite quote by Planck:

“I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.”
― Max Planck
Shame on Max Planck! :roll:
mankind ... must act and reason and believe; though they are not able, by their most diligent enquiry, to satisfy themselves concerning the foundation of these operations, or to remove the objections, which may be raised against them [Hume]
GE Morton
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Re: There is No such thing as Death

Post by GE Morton »

stevie wrote: May 2nd, 2022, 10:06 am
UniversalAlien wrote: May 2nd, 2022, 5:06 am - And specifically my favorite quote by Planck:

“I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.”
― Max Planck
Shame on Max Planck! :roll:
The OP is quoting Planck out of context, and thus misinterpreting his statement above.
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Re: There is No such thing as Death

Post by LuckyR »

GE Morton wrote: May 2nd, 2022, 12:41 pm
stevie wrote: May 2nd, 2022, 10:06 am
UniversalAlien wrote: May 2nd, 2022, 5:06 am - And specifically my favorite quote by Planck:

“I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.”
― Max Planck
Shame on Max Planck! :roll:
The OP is quoting Planck out of context, and thus misinterpreting his statement above.
So what's the correct context/meaning?
"As usual... it depends."
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UniversalAlien
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Re: There is No such thing as Death

Post by UniversalAlien »

LuckyR wrote: May 2nd, 2022, 3:53 pm
GE Morton wrote: May 2nd, 2022, 12:41 pm
stevie wrote: May 2nd, 2022, 10:06 am
UniversalAlien wrote: May 2nd, 2022, 5:06 am - And specifically my favorite quote by Planck:

“I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.”
― Max Planck
Shame on Max Planck! :roll:
The OP is quoting Planck out of context, and thus misinterpreting his statement above.
So what's the correct context/meaning?
Maybe another quote by Max Planck will help to clarify what he means to say:

Image

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matrix of the mind - max planck | Max planck quotes, Science quotes, Physics
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Sculptor1
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Re: There is No such thing as Death

Post by Sculptor1 »

There is such a thing as dying.

"Death" is a convenience of language which is very useful. There are so many such things for which "no such thing.." could be applied, it seems pointless to isolate this one.
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Sculptor1
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Re: There is No such thing as Death

Post by Sculptor1 »

UniversalAlien wrote: May 2nd, 2022, 5:08 pm
LuckyR wrote: May 2nd, 2022, 3:53 pm
GE Morton wrote: May 2nd, 2022, 12:41 pm
stevie wrote: May 2nd, 2022, 10:06 am

Shame on Max Planck! :roll:
The OP is quoting Planck out of context, and thus misinterpreting his statement above.
So what's the correct context/meaning?
Maybe another quote by Max Planck will help to clarify what he means to say:

Image

Pinterest
matrix of the mind - max planck | Max planck quotes, Science quotes, Physics
Planck seems to have descended into the bottomless rabbit hole of idealism and solipsism.
But there is no doubt he is no longer with us, yet the "matrix" he described is still here. So he proved himself false by dying, with the advantage of never seeing his failure, since his conceit died with him.
Gee
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Re: There is No such thing as Death

Post by Gee »

UniversalAlien wrote: May 2nd, 2022, 5:08 pm
LuckyR wrote: May 2nd, 2022, 3:53 pm
GE Morton wrote: May 2nd, 2022, 12:41 pm
stevie wrote: May 2nd, 2022, 10:06 am

Shame on Max Planck! :roll:
The OP is quoting Planck out of context, and thus misinterpreting his statement above.
So what's the correct context/meaning?
Maybe another quote by Max Planck will help to clarify what he means to say:

Image

Pinterest
matrix of the mind - max planck | Max planck quotes, Science quotes, Physics
Actually, I agree with Planck and have for a while now, but one must consider what is meant by consciousness, force, mind, etc.

"All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force . . ." Agreed. Force and motion are necessary in order to cause matter. Planck obviously knew this.

"We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind." I am not sure that I can agree with this part. In the first place it is based on an assumption, which I don't like, and it smacks of anthropomorphism because we can not envision a mind that is not like ours. So this is where the "God" idea comes from, but there is no way that a singular mind like ours could exist in the atmosphere of a pre-matter universe. Minds like ours require matter and bonding.

"This mind is the matrix of all matter." Agreed. But what kind of mind are we talking about? It could not be a conscious aspect of mind nor could it be thought as those things require a brain. So are we talking about an unconscious aspect of mind? I think that this has to be so.

The unconscious is where emotion rules. Emotion is a force. The unconscious is where we experience the supernatural, "God" ideas, etc., and it is what consciousness is formed from. Religions refer to "God" as love, which is an emotion. I am not saying religion is right as that is just an interpretation, but we are talking about a lot of coincidence.

Gee
SteveKlinko
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Re: There is No such thing as Death

Post by SteveKlinko »

UniversalAlien wrote: May 2nd, 2022, 5:06 am This is not meant to be religious but might be taken to be mystical - Because it reflects concepts such as immortality and rebirth.

This post is based upon the thinking of Max Planck, the famous Nobel Prize winning physicist who gave us Quantum Mechanics
- And specifically my favorite quote by Planck:

“I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.”
― Max Planck


Again 'consciousness is fundamental' - No beginning, no end, but rather a fundamental state of conscious existence that is
the be all of all that exists - The past, present, and future is backed by an ever existing state of consciousness :!:

Now assuming, just for the sake of argument, that Planck is correct - Is death even possible :?:

How can any form of life actually die, discounting the actual physical body which we know will eventually pass on
- But the ever existent conscious state that the physical body came from will always exist and the conscious essence that the
body came from is ever present.

So we Humans, or any life form for that matter, can not die completely - It simply returns to the primal and forever state of
consciousness

That said - Can we postulate the existence of a real afterlife where our ego specific conscious mind can maintain itself
and voluntarily choose to return and be reborn :?:

And finally do you know of anyone, including yourself, who believes, and even better still has evidence of living before :?:
For thoughts on Life after Death using the Inter Mind Model of Consciousness: https://theintermind.com/#_Toc337459238
GE Morton
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Re: There is No such thing as Death

Post by GE Morton »

LuckyR wrote: May 2nd, 2022, 3:53 pm
So what's the correct context/meaning?
"No science can rest its foundation on the dependability of single human individuals. And the moment we have made that statement we have taken a step which puts us off the logical pathway of the positivist system. We have followed the call of common sense. We have taken a jump into the metaphysical realm; because we have accepted the hypothesis that sensory perceptions do not of themselves create the physical world around us, but rather that they bring news of another world which lies outside of ours and is entirely independent of us . . . At this point a new epistemological difficulty enters. The basic principle of the positivist theory is that there is no other source of knowledge except within the restricted range of perception through the senses. Now there are two theorems that form together the cardinal hinge on which the whole structure of physical science turns. These theorems are: ( 1) There is a real outer world which exists independently of our act of knowing, and, (2) The real outer world is not directly knowable."

Planck, Where is Science Going", pp. 80-81

https://archive.org/details/whereisscie ... 0/mode/2up
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