Relationships between Schizophrenia and the God

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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kk23wong
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Relationships between Schizophrenia and the God

Post by kk23wong »

I have suffered from schizophrenia for a decade. My major and only symptom was auditory hallucinations (AH). The mysterious voice come directly into my head and I suspected it was actually the manipulation from the God. In another word, the God abuses her power (or ability) to communicate with us. In fact, it happened a lot in the history of humankind. For instance, the writing of bibles.

I am sorry if my writing is a little bit hard for you guys to read. English was not my mother tongue.

I hope it is not defined as insane to talk about the presence of the God in 21 century. It definitely need courage to speak out as a patient of schizophrenia, but I do think I have to speak out. Psychology nowadays has taken over philosophy in the explanations of mental illnesses. However, it does not necessarily mean they are correct.

The God abuses her ability to communicate with us to change our destinies. I think it is the truth behind all myths.

It was not strange that the God can speak to a large number of people at the same time, as well as in different places. Our computer could now process a lot of data at the same time too. Please be open-minded to this question.

I have to admit that the God is good at role-playing e.g. angels, demons, ghosts and inner-self etc. The "all-knowing" ability allows the God to know the history of everyone well. Hence, the God could play many roles by recalling our memories. It seems absurd, but the God is "all-knowing". I just don't know how. The situation is similar to the super-computers nowadays which could process many information at the same time instantly. How it actually works still remains a mystery.

I insist, "Schizophrenia is the by-product of the manipulations from the God. She abuses the abilities to communicate with us to create various legends. And the God preferred to hide her manipulations behind modern psychology with the aims to become an invisible hand behind our tangible world. Although the God decides our "Destinies", "Fates" are still in our hands. It is our "Free Will" which allows us to have fates. Hence, the God don't play dice. She plays with us. She fools us. To a certain extent, humankind are her toys."

It sorely depends on the intentions of the God to speak to you. If it was a punishment, she (the God/the voices) would probably start to role-playing as the ghosts or spirits. If the God wants you to be a priest or pastor, he or she will talk to you as an angel or demon. It all depends on the purposes of the God to talk to you.

The God manipulates our world and decides our destinies by talking to us. These voices were not caused by the imbalance of chemicals inside our brains as the modern psychology has claimed. The God just fooling around with her power to communicate with many of us at the same time. Meanwhile, the abilities of "all-knowing" and "having presence in everywhere", or I have to say the power of this "omniscient" God, allows her to role-playing almost everything. It includes angels, demons, ghosts, holy spirits and even our "inner-self". I don't know how but the God was even capable of reading my minds during getting along with me. The power of this mighty God keeps manipulating or world. The establishment of modern psychology was a mistake. It makes her manipulations of our world become even more difficult to be explained with. It makes me even harder to retaliate upon her manipulations. That is what we shall call the "destinies" of someone. Destinies and fates. Destinies come from the God, fates are still in our hands. It is my "Free Will" who makes me here today complaining the manipulations from the God.

The presence of the God does not necessarily proved the existence of souls. Nobody knows where we will go after death. I still believe that humankind are animals with higher intelligence only. Everyone was born to be, even the God herself! There are no offences. They are simply just some personal beliefs.

I know more or less the same about this manipulator with all of you. The only differences between me and the majority of the people is that I suffered from schizophrenia for more then a decade. For which, I experienced the manipulations of the God and I really resent her wrongdoings. Obviously, the God is not righteous and good all the time. The God has to do dirty works on her own too because she is the only one capable of doing them. She did it in purposes for modifying our world according to her own will. The struggles between the will of the God (I call it "destinies") and our "Free Will" (I call it "fates") always end up with tragedies. Those who refused to compromise go mad. At the end of the day, the God only becomes an invisible manipulator of our world. The truth is so upset. The God created destinies for us, but at the same time she also created her own destiny. That is being a manipulator. I wonder if she was satisfied with this role or not.

I suddenly think of a quote I found on the internet some days ago, "If you talk to God, you are praying; If God talks to you, you have schizophrenia."

See how the manipulations work :shock:

I know you guys have a lot to talk about this. Below are open to discussions.
Looking for the Truth Teller in this website http://itsmyurls.com/kk23wong
A Teller is the Teller in the Holy Bible if you are seeking.

Proverbs 12:17 - International Standard Version (ISV) - English
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JackDaydream
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Re: Relationships between Schizophrenia and the God

Post by JackDaydream »

kk23wong wrote: May 28th, 2022, 10:36 am I have suffered from schizophrenia for a decade. My major and only symptom was auditory hallucinations (AH). The mysterious voice come directly into my head and I suspected it was actually the manipulation from the God. In another word, the God abuses her power (or ability) to communicate with us. In fact, it happened a lot in the history of humankind. For instance, the writing of bibles.

I am sorry if my writing is a little bit hard for you guys to read. English was not my mother tongue.

I hope it is not defined as insane to talk about the presence of the God in 21 century. It definitely need courage to speak out as a patient of schizophrenia, but I do think I have to speak out. Psychology nowadays has taken over philosophy in the explanations of mental illnesses. However, it does not necessarily mean they are correct.

The God abuses her ability to communicate with us to change our destinies. I think it is the truth behind all myths.

It was not strange that the God can speak to a large number of people at the same time, as well as in different places. Our computer could now process a lot of data at the same time too. Please be open-minded to this question.

I have to admit that the God is good at role-playing e.g. angels, demons, ghosts and inner-self etc. The "all-knowing" ability allows the God to know the history of everyone well. Hence, the God could play many roles by recalling our memories. It seems absurd, but the God is "all-knowing". I just don't know how. The situation is similar to the super-computers nowadays which could process many information at the same time instantly. How it actually works still remains a mystery.

I insist, "Schizophrenia is the by-product of the manipulations from the God. She abuses the abilities to communicate with us to create various legends. And the God preferred to hide her manipulations behind modern psychology with the aims to become an invisible hand behind our tangible world. Although the God decides our "Destinies", "Fates" are still in our hands. It is our "Free Will" which allows us to have fates. Hence, the God don't play dice. She plays with us. She fools us. To a certain extent, humankind are her toys."

It sorely depends on the intentions of the God to speak to you. If it was a punishment, she (the God/the voices) would probably start to role-playing as the ghosts or spirits. If the God wants you to be a priest or pastor, he or she will talk to you as an angel or demon. It all depends on the purposes of the God to talk to you.

The God manipulates our world and decides our destinies by talking to us. These voices were not caused by the imbalance of chemicals inside our brains as the modern psychology has claimed. The God just fooling around with her power to communicate with many of us at the same time. Meanwhile, the abilities of "all-knowing" and "having presence in everywhere", or I have to say the power of this "omniscient" God, allows her to role-playing almost everything. It includes angels, demons, ghosts, holy spirits and even our "inner-self". I don't know how but the God was even capable of reading my minds during getting along with me. The power of this mighty God keeps manipulating or world. The establishment of modern psychology was a mistake. It makes her manipulations of our world become even more difficult to be explained with. It makes me even harder to retaliate upon her manipulations. That is what we shall call the "destinies" of someone. Destinies and fates. Destinies come from the God, fates are still in our hands. It is my "Free Will" who makes me here today complaining the manipulations from the God.

The presence of the God does not necessarily proved the existence of souls. Nobody knows where we will go after death. I still believe that humankind are animals with higher intelligence only. Everyone was born to be, even the God herself! There are no offences. They are simply just some personal beliefs.

I know more or less the same about this manipulator with all of you. The only differences between me and the majority of the people is that I suffered from schizophrenia for more then a decade. For which, I experienced the manipulations of the God and I really resent her wrongdoings. Obviously, the God is not righteous and good all the time. The God has to do dirty works on her own too because she is the only one capable of doing them. She did it in purposes for modifying our world according to her own will. The struggles between the will of the God (I call it "destinies") and our "Free Will" (I call it "fates") always end up with tragedies. Those who refused to compromise go mad. At the end of the day, the God only becomes an invisible manipulator of our world. The truth is so upset. The God created destinies for us, but at the same time she also created her own destiny. That is being a manipulator. I wonder if she was satisfied with this role or not.

I suddenly think of a quote I found on the internet some days ago, "If you talk to God, you are praying; If God talks to you, you have schizophrenia."

See how the manipulations work :shock:

I know you guys have a lot to talk about this. Below are open to discussions.
The topic which you raise is complicated and it really involves the nature of 'mental illness' and the issue of God's existence. The relationship between the two is complex. It is also brave of you to share your experience. The basis on which I answer your question is because I do have a strong interest in the nature of religious 'psychosis'. I have friends who have been diagnosed with 'schizophrenia' and, also, I have trained and worked in mental health care.

Part of the problem which I see is knowing how to understand experiences, such as voices. They can be extremely distressing, especially if they are interpreted as coming from God. My own angle of understanding is one of seeing them as symbolic rather than literal. This is based on my reading of the psychology of Carl Jung, who wrote so much on aspects of inner experiences. He had intense inner experiences himself, such as he conversed with a spirit guide, who he referred to as Philemon. He sees the mythic aspects of dreams as intense aspects of waking experiences. In this, he does not deny the importance of them but does suggest a critical understanding of symbolism rather than just taking them at face value.

With current psychiatry, the answer is often reduced to treatment by medication, such as antipsychotics. I am not opposed to these because I know how so many people are able to function better, but getting the right one and dosage is extremely important, especially as many of them have such terrible side-effects.

As for the ideas amongst mental health professionals, there are major variations. The doctors are trained in the medical model. As for the nurses, in my experience so many I have met did believe in God, whereas I am not sure that this was true of the doctors. It is likely that there is so much variations though, including the culture which one is coming from and it may be that many who work in mental health care do not have a strong interest in philosophy.

My own interest and beliefs about God have changed a lot at times. I grew up as a Catholic and did question so much, but I am not an atheist. I have a strong interest in the philosophy of religion, both theistic approaches and comparative religion, including Buddhism which is not theistic.

Understanding experience is difficult and throughout history many influential figures had intense ones. For example, William Blake saw visions of angels and devils and if he was alive today, it is likely that he would have been Sectioned and treated on antipsychotics. One particular book which I came across is 'The Bicameral Mind' by Julian Jaynes. It was actually a patient who introduced me to it. What Jaynes argues is that at an earlier stage in the evolution of consciousness, people heard voices. The distinction between inner and outer consciousness was less for ancient people and there was a hallucinatory aspect which was seen or projected onto 'gods'. Jaynes is writing descriptively and does not get into the topic as to whether God exists, which comes more in the category of the philosophy of religion.

Anyway, I think that I will finish here. I am happy to interact further on the topic, but I will wait to see if you find my reply useful or not, and what other people may reply to you.
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kk23wong
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Re: Relationships between Schizophrenia and the God

Post by kk23wong »

JackDaydream wrote: May 28th, 2022, 12:07 pm
The topic which you raise is complicated and it really involves the nature of 'mental illness' and the issue of God's existence. The relationship between the two is complex. It is also brave of you to share your experience. The basis on which I answer your question is because I do have a strong interest in the nature of religious 'psychosis'. I have friends who have been diagnosed with 'schizophrenia' and, also, I have trained and worked in mental health care.

Part of the problem which I see is knowing how to understand experiences, such as voices. They can be extremely distressing, especially if they are interpreted as coming from God. My own angle of understanding is one of seeing them as symbolic rather than literal. This is based on my reading of the psychology of Carl Jung, who wrote so much on aspects of inner experiences. He had intense inner experiences himself, such as he conversed with a spirit guide, who he referred to as Philemon. He sees the mythic aspects of dreams as intense aspects of waking experiences. In this, he does not deny the importance of them but does suggest a critical understanding of symbolism rather than just taking them at face value.

With current psychiatry, the answer is often reduced to treatment by medication, such as antipsychotics. I am not opposed to these because I know how so many people are able to function better, but getting the right one and dosage is extremely important, especially as many of them have such terrible side-effects.

As for the ideas amongst mental health professionals, there are major variations. The doctors are trained in the medical model. As for the nurses, in my experience so many I have met did believe in God, whereas I am not sure that this was true of the doctors. It is likely that there is so much variations though, including the culture which one is coming from and it may be that many who work in mental health care do not have a strong interest in philosophy.

My own interest and beliefs about God have changed a lot at times. I grew up as a Catholic and did question so much, but I am not an atheist. I have a strong interest in the philosophy of religion, both theistic approaches and comparative religion, including Buddhism which is not theistic.

Understanding experience is difficult and throughout history many influential figures had intense ones. For example, William Blake saw visions of angels and devils and if he was alive today, it is likely that he would have been Sectioned and treated on antipsychotics. One particular book which I came across is 'The Bicameral Mind' by Julian Jaynes. It was actually a patient who introduced me to it. What Jaynes argues is that at an earlier stage in the evolution of consciousness, people heard voices. The distinction between inner and outer consciousness was less for ancient people and there was a hallucinatory aspect which was seen or projected onto 'gods'. Jaynes is writing descriptively and does not get into the topic as to whether God exists, which comes more in the category of the philosophy of religion.

Anyway, I think that I will finish here. I am happy to interact further on the topic, but I will wait to see if you find my reply useful or not, and what other people may reply to you.
Philosophy without the God is insane, and psychology without the God is even more.

"No subjects are equal. All psychological therapies are invalid." I still remember what I have been taught in the first lesson of Behaviour Science 101.

Hence, modern psychology was not established on a solid base. When the foundation is weak, one fatal blow could destroy everything. One pillar that support modern psychology was missing. That was the pillar of truth -- or I have to say, the ironic truth -- that is the existence of the God. Philosophy without the God is insane. Science without the God is lame. Psychology without the God is wrong.

Looking forward to your reply and more others to join us. Peace.
Looking for the Truth Teller in this website http://itsmyurls.com/kk23wong
A Teller is the Teller in the Holy Bible if you are seeking.

Proverbs 12:17 - International Standard Version (ISV) - English
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JackDaydream
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Joined: July 25th, 2021, 5:16 pm

Re: Relationships between Schizophrenia and the God

Post by JackDaydream »

kk23wong wrote: May 29th, 2022, 8:48 am
JackDaydream wrote: May 28th, 2022, 12:07 pm
The topic which you raise is complicated and it really involves the nature of 'mental illness' and the issue of God's existence. The relationship between the two is complex. It is also brave of you to share your experience. The basis on which I answer your question is because I do have a strong interest in the nature of religious 'psychosis'. I have friends who have been diagnosed with 'schizophrenia' and, also, I have trained and worked in mental health care.

Part of the problem which I see is knowing how to understand experiences, such as voices. They can be extremely distressing, especially if they are interpreted as coming from God. My own angle of understanding is one of seeing them as symbolic rather than literal. This is based on my reading of the psychology of Carl Jung, who wrote so much on aspects of inner experiences. He had intense inner experiences himself, such as he conversed with a spirit guide, who he referred to as Philemon. He sees the mythic aspects of dreams as intense aspects of waking experiences. In this, he does not deny the importance of them but does suggest a critical understanding of symbolism rather than just taking them at face value.

With current psychiatry, the answer is often reduced to treatment by medication, such as antipsychotics. I am not opposed to these because I know how so many people are able to function better, but getting the right one and dosage is extremely important, especially as many of them have such terrible side-effects.

As for the ideas amongst mental health professionals, there are major variations. The doctors are trained in the medical model. As for the nurses, in my experience so many I have met did believe in God, whereas I am not sure that this was true of the doctors. It is likely that there is so much variations though, including the culture which one is coming from and it may be that many who work in mental health care do not have a strong interest in philosophy.

My own interest and beliefs about God have changed a lot at times. I grew up as a Catholic and did question so much, but I am not an atheist. I have a strong interest in the philosophy of religion, both theistic approaches and comparative religion, including Buddhism which is not theistic.

Understanding experience is difficult and throughout history many influential figures had intense ones. For example, William Blake saw visions of angels and devils and if he was alive today, it is likely that he would have been Sectioned and treated on antipsychotics. One particular book which I came across is 'The Bicameral Mind' by Julian Jaynes. It was actually a patient who introduced me to it. What Jaynes argues is that at an earlier stage in the evolution of consciousness, people heard voices. The distinction between inner and outer consciousness was less for ancient people and there was a hallucinatory aspect which was seen or projected onto 'gods'. Jaynes is writing descriptively and does not get into the topic as to whether God exists, which comes more in the category of the philosophy of religion.

Anyway, I think that I will finish here. I am happy to interact further on the topic, but I will wait to see if you find my reply useful or not, and what other people may reply to you.
Philosophy without the God is insane, and psychology without the God is even more.

"No subjects are equal. All psychological therapies are invalid." I still remember what I have been taught in the first lesson of Behaviour Science 101.

Hence, modern psychology was not established on a solid base. When the foundation is weak, one fatal blow could destroy everything. One pillar that support modern psychology was missing. That was the pillar of truth -- or I have to say, the ironic truth -- that is the existence of the God. Philosophy without the God is insane. Science without the God is lame. Psychology without the God is wrong.

Looking forward to your reply and more others to join us. Peace.
I have no wish to criticise your viewpoint as you are entitled to believe in God. My friend who just came out of psychiatric hospital sees his inner experience in relation to the Bible and often sees his experiences in relation to prayer. Of course, the majority of people who hold strong religious beliefs are not regarded as mentalily ill at at all. People have such different ways of regarding life and my own view on the existence of God does fluctuate because I see the issue as so complex. It is extremely difficult to prove or disprove God's existence and often it comes down to a matter of faith.

With inner experiences the problem which I see is that it can be problematic if all of them are attributed to God, especially the difficult ones. Supposing a voice told someone to do something wrong and the person followed it. I have known people who have followed orders of voices on the belief that they were from God with dire consequences. Your initial outpost does suggest an ambivalence about how voices should be seen in relation to God.

I really do recommend reading Carl Jung as his many writings do explore the relationship between profound experiences and the idea of God. I first read his writings when I had intense dream experiences and some premonitions when I was still at school. I often think that if I had not read his writings at that stage I could have gone on to be diagnosed as mentally ill. The book which I read by him was, 'Memories, Dreams and Reflections', which was the autobiography which he wrote at the end of his life. His many writings do explore the relationship between God and psychology, and do go into various aspects of philosophy, but the autobiography is particularly helpful because it explores the intense experiences which he had at many different times in his life.
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kk23wong
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Re: Relationships between Schizophrenia and the God

Post by kk23wong »

JackDaydream wrote: May 29th, 2022, 9:55 am
I have no wish to criticise your viewpoint as you are entitled to believe in God. My friend who just came out of psychiatric hospital sees his inner experience in relation to the Bible and often sees his experiences in relation to prayer. Of course, the majority of people who hold strong religious beliefs are not regarded as mentalily ill at at all. People have such different ways of regarding life and my own view on the existence of God does fluctuate because I see the issue as so complex. It is extremely difficult to prove or disprove God's existence and often it comes down to a matter of faith.

With inner experiences the problem which I see is that it can be problematic if all of them are attributed to God, especially the difficult ones. Supposing a voice told someone to do something wrong and the person followed it. I have known people who have followed orders of voices on the belief that they were from God with dire consequences. Your initial outpost does suggest an ambivalence about how voices should be seen in relation to God.

I really do recommend reading Carl Jung as his many writings do explore the relationship between profound experiences and the idea of God. I first read his writings when I had intense dream experiences and some premonitions when I was still at school. I often think that if I had not read his writings at that stage I could have gone on to be diagnosed as mentally ill. The book which I read by him was, 'Memories, Dreams and Reflections', which was the autobiography which he wrote at the end of his life. His many writings do explore the relationship between God and psychology, and do go into various aspects of philosophy, but the autobiography is particularly helpful because it explores the intense experiences which he had at many different times in his life.
Religious people are often not being regarded as mentally ill as long as auditory hallucinations (AH) did not influence their lives. However, that is definitely a problem I am facing. The God intended to manipulate my life by abusing her abilities to communicate with us. Her wrongdoings lead me to the doorway of the truth -- that is the coexistence between humankind and the God. The sync between our world and the God could be best described as instant and surely much more often then anyone have expected. The God prefers to be an invisible manipulator and modern psychology is doing a favour for her. I have no ways but to stand up against her dictatorship although engaging in online forums do not help much. If one day the God begins to speak to you, you will find out how limited that our "Free Will" are. Maybe you will start doing what I am doing right now. Questioning the validity of our modern psychology.

Btw, I guess Carl Jung would not agree with my stance if he's still alive :lol: but thank you for your recommendation. You have a kind heart.
Looking for the Truth Teller in this website http://itsmyurls.com/kk23wong
A Teller is the Teller in the Holy Bible if you are seeking.

Proverbs 12:17 - International Standard Version (ISV) - English
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JackDaydream
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Joined: July 25th, 2021, 5:16 pm

Re: Relationships between Schizophrenia and the God

Post by JackDaydream »

kk23wong wrote: May 29th, 2022, 3:21 pm
JackDaydream wrote: May 29th, 2022, 9:55 am
I have no wish to criticise your viewpoint as you are entitled to believe in God. My friend who just came out of psychiatric hospital sees his inner experience in relation to the Bible and often sees his experiences in relation to prayer. Of course, the majority of people who hold strong religious beliefs are not regarded as mentalily ill at at all. People have such different ways of regarding life and my own view on the existence of God does fluctuate because I see the issue as so complex. It is extremely difficult to prove or disprove God's existence and often it comes down to a matter of faith.

With inner experiences the problem which I see is that it can be problematic if all of them are attributed to God, especially the difficult ones. Supposing a voice told someone to do something wrong and the person followed it. I have known people who have followed orders of voices on the belief that they were from God with dire consequences. Your initial outpost does suggest an ambivalence about how voices should be seen in relation to God.

I really do recommend reading Carl Jung as his many writings do explore the relationship between profound experiences and the idea of God. I first read his writings when I had intense dream experiences and some premonitions when I was still at school. I often think that if I had not read his writings at that stage I could have gone on to be diagnosed as mentally ill. The book which I read by him was, 'Memories, Dreams and Reflections', which was the autobiography which he wrote at the end of his life. His many writings do explore the relationship between God and psychology, and do go into various aspects of philosophy, but the autobiography is particularly helpful because it explores the intense experiences which he had at many different times in his life.
Religious people are often not being regarded as mentally ill as long as auditory hallucinations (AH) did not influence their lives. However, that is definitely a problem I am facing. The God intended to manipulate my life by abusing her abilities to communicate with us. Her wrongdoings lead me to the doorway of the truth -- that is the coexistence between humankind and the God. The sync between our world and the God could be best described as instant and surely much more often then anyone have expected. The God prefers to be an invisible manipulator and modern psychology is doing a favour for her. I have no ways but to stand up against her dictatorship although engaging in online forums do not help much. If one day the God begins to speak to you, you will find out how limited that our "Free Will" are. Maybe you will start doing what I am doing right now. Questioning the validity of our modern psychology.

Btw, I guess Carl Jung would not agree with my stance if he's still alive :lol: but thank you for your recommendation. You have a kind heart.
Carl Jung is not alive and died some time about 50 years ago. I don't know what he would make of your post but, there again, I am not sure what he would make of psychology as it has developed.

Your topic is a fairly difficult one to discuss on forums, especially as it involves your own personal experiences rather than mere ideas. You have not spoken of the actual experiences which you are having. I am not sure to what extent it is advisable to speak of the really personal experiences on a public forum because it is public. It is a matter of choice, but also it depends who reads it and how they view both psychosis and the existence of God. The site doesn't have a large readership and sometimes the arguments for and against the existence of God can be fierce. I hope that you do get some more helpful replies or if you are in mental health services that you can find some supportive people to talk to. While people are in psychiatric inpatient units they can usually access chaplaincy members, but you may have never been admitted to hospital.

Hallucinations can be extremely difficult. Freud saw them as being like dreams while awake. I have known people who have terribly distressing voices, which challenge them so much. Some people even listen to music on headphones to distract themselves from unpleasant voices. I am not sure that me saying this is particularly helpful but I am aware of people who hear voices. When I tried LSD I heard voices talking about me in the music being played at the rave warehouse where I was. The whole experience of hallucinating on acid and skunk weed did challenge my understanding of reality. There is a definite chemical component to hallucinations, which can be triggered by stress and some people are more genetically predisposed to what is diagnosed as schizophrenia or psychosis.

I am not saying that to dismiss your experience or what you are trying to explore. I also wonder if you are part of a religious community to gain some face to face support. Of course, there are many people who do perceive diagnosed 'mental illness' and, as you say, people who are religious but don't hear voices are not regarded as mentality unwell. However, many people do hear voices and have unusual experiences, probably some of whom never come to the attention of psychiatric services. So, I hope that you find some helpful interaction, in terms of helpful replies here, or in daily life.

Best wishes,
Jack
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kk23wong
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Location: Hong Kong

Re: Relationships between Schizophrenia and the God

Post by kk23wong »

JackDaydream wrote: May 29th, 2022, 5:51 pm
Carl Jung is not alive and died some time about 50 years ago. I don't know what he would make of your post but, there again, I am not sure what he would make of psychology as it has developed.

Your topic is a fairly difficult one to discuss on forums, especially as it involves your own personal experiences rather than mere ideas. You have not spoken of the actual experiences which you are having. I am not sure to what extent it is advisable to speak of the really personal experiences on a public forum because it is public. It is a matter of choice, but also it depends who reads it and how they view both psychosis and the existence of God. The site doesn't have a large readership and sometimes the arguments for and against the existence of God can be fierce. I hope that you do get some more helpful replies or if you are in mental health services that you can find some supportive people to talk to. While people are in psychiatric inpatient units they can usually access chaplaincy members, but you may have never been admitted to hospital.

Hallucinations can be extremely difficult. Freud saw them as being like dreams while awake. I have known people who have terribly distressing voices, which challenge them so much. Some people even listen to music on headphones to distract themselves from unpleasant voices. I am not sure that me saying this is particularly helpful but I am aware of people who hear voices. When I tried LSD I heard voices talking about me in the music being played at the rave warehouse where I was. The whole experience of hallucinating on acid and skunk weed did challenge my understanding of reality. There is a definite chemical component to hallucinations, which can be triggered by stress and some people are more genetically predisposed to what is diagnosed as schizophrenia or psychosis.

I am not saying that to dismiss your experience or what you are trying to explore. I also wonder if you are part of a religious community to gain some face to face support. Of course, there are many people who do perceive diagnosed 'mental illness' and, as you say, people who are religious but don't hear voices are not regarded as mentality unwell. However, many people do hear voices and have unusual experiences, probably some of whom never come to the attention of psychiatric services. So, I hope that you find some helpful interaction, in terms of helpful replies here, or in daily life.

Best wishes,
Jack
Carl Jung, of course, I have heard of him, but in term of his Chinese name. Since I am a Hong Konger and my mother tongue is Cantonese. I know him because he is a prominent figure in psychology. And I did google it a bit more after reading your post :P and did found his biography in English ebooks collection in the public library database in Hong Kong. However, I am not much interested in that :roll:

I believe our discussions can be open to public. It need not to be private because we can avoid talking about personal issues but just to focus on the framework e.g. how the God take advantage of her nature (e.g. omniscient) to manipulate our world silently. Like what we did in economy. We divided it into micro- and macro-economy. We just talk about the big picture of the manipulation from the God instead of focusing on personal issues. Therefore, I think our discussions can be continue as long as it is rational.

I am not asking for helps here. I have a couples of supportive persons helping me and they are very helpful. I am here to ask more people to rise up against the tyranny of the God. Psychology should not be used as a suppression tools against the rebellions. The God manipulate our world with her invisible hands. She is a dictator. We humankind should be conscious of our own positions. Free Will shall win over the manipulations from the God and thrives a victory in our history. Psychology was not established in a solid base since nobody is totally the same as the others. No subjects are equal. That is the fatal weakness of modern psychology. Besides, modern psychology is going in a completely wrong direction without mentioning the presence of the God.

Peace,
Teru
Looking for the Truth Teller in this website http://itsmyurls.com/kk23wong
A Teller is the Teller in the Holy Bible if you are seeking.

Proverbs 12:17 - International Standard Version (ISV) - English
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JackDaydream
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Re: Relationships between Schizophrenia and the God

Post by JackDaydream »

kk23wong wrote: May 30th, 2022, 7:03 am
JackDaydream wrote: May 29th, 2022, 5:51 pm
Carl Jung is not alive and died some time about 50 years ago. I don't know what he would make of your post but, there again, I am not sure what he would make of psychology as it has developed.

Your topic is a fairly difficult one to discuss on forums, especially as it involves your own personal experiences rather than mere ideas. You have not spoken of the actual experiences which you are having. I am not sure to what extent it is advisable to speak of the really personal experiences on a public forum because it is public. It is a matter of choice, but also it depends who reads it and how they view both psychosis and the existence of God. The site doesn't have a large readership and sometimes the arguments for and against the existence of God can be fierce. I hope that you do get some more helpful replies or if you are in mental health services that you can find some supportive people to talk to. While people are in psychiatric inpatient units they can usually access chaplaincy members, but you may have never been admitted to hospital.

Hallucinations can be extremely difficult. Freud saw them as being like dreams while awake. I have known people who have terribly distressing voices, which challenge them so much. Some people even listen to music on headphones to distract themselves from unpleasant voices. I am not sure that me saying this is particularly helpful but I am aware of people who hear voices. When I tried LSD I heard voices talking about me in the music being played at the rave warehouse where I was. The whole experience of hallucinating on acid and skunk weed did challenge my understanding of reality. There is a definite chemical component to hallucinations, which can be triggered by stress and some people are more genetically predisposed to what is diagnosed as schizophrenia or psychosis.

I am not saying that to dismiss your experience or what you are trying to explore. I also wonder if you are part of a religious community to gain some face to face support. Of course, there are many people who do perceive diagnosed 'mental illness' and, as you say, people who are religious but don't hear voices are not regarded as mentality unwell. However, many people do hear voices and have unusual experiences, probably some of whom never come to the attention of psychiatric services. So, I hope that you find some helpful interaction, in terms of helpful replies here, or in daily life.

Best wishes,
Jack
Carl Jung, of course, I have heard of him, but in term of his Chinese name. Since I am a Hong Konger and my mother tongue is Cantonese. I know him because he is a prominent figure in psychology. And I did google it a bit more after reading your post :P and did found his biography in English ebooks collection in the public library database in Hong Kong. However, I am not much interested in that :roll:

I believe our discussions can be open to public. It need not to be private because we can avoid talking about personal issues but just to focus on the framework e.g. how the God take advantage of her nature (e.g. omniscient) to manipulate our world silently. Like what we did in economy. We divided it into micro- and macro-economy. We just talk about the big picture of the manipulation from the God instead of focusing on personal issues. Therefore, I think our discussions can be continue as long as it is rational.

I am not asking for helps here. I have a couples of supportive persons helping me and they are very helpful. I am here to ask more people to rise up against the tyranny of the God. Psychology should not be used as a suppression tools against the rebellions. The God manipulate our world with her invisible hands. She is a dictator. We humankind should be conscious of our own positions. Free Will shall win over the manipulations from the God and thrives a victory in our history. Psychology was not established in a solid base since nobody is totally the same as the others. No subjects are equal. That is the fatal weakness of modern psychology. Besides, modern psychology is going in a completely wrong direction without mentioning the presence of the God.

Peace,
Teru
I didn't realise you were in Hong Kong, although I did notice your name. I have not come across anyone from there on this site. What I think is wonderful is that it is possible to communicate here with people throughout the world. I am also wondering about your experience of both religious ideas and psychology in relation to mine, as I was born and live in England. With the internet information is becoming far more universal throughout the world but education systems vary so much.

From what you are saying it appears to me that you are struggling with the problem of evil in relation to God. The reason why I refer to Jung so much is to acknowledge the basis of my own ideas and I wrote a dissertation on his ideas about the 'dark side' of God. This was based on one of his lesser known works, 'Answer to Job'. In this he explores the dark side of human nature and experience, tracing it to the image of God in the human mind. He suggests that the development of ideas about God have excluded evil from the picture.

So, I would say that the image of God which many people have can be one sided, and, often evil is projected onto the figure of Satan. Some pictures of whatever transcendent reality exists are more inclined to embrace opposites in the form of the yin and yang, as well as good and evil as aspects of a greater whole. I notice that you refer to God as 'she' which is less conventional than as 'he'. My understanding is that if there is a God, and by that I mean a source underlying the processes of life, and the spark of consciousness inherent in life, this source must be include the totality of opposites on some level. This includes the fuller picture of the sources of human suffering and I do think that some pictures of religious experience are too 'chocolate box' style and miss the way in which religious experience can include a diabolical side as well. Some Christian mystics spoke of the 'dark night of the soul'. Also, in churches there are often images of gargoyles, which represent the diabolical aspect of spiritual experience. It may be that your own experience involves this aspect.
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kk23wong
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Re: Relationships between Schizophrenia and the God

Post by kk23wong »

JackDaydream wrote: May 30th, 2022, 9:23 am
I didn't realise you were in Hong Kong, although I did notice your name. I have not come across anyone from there on this site. What I think is wonderful is that it is possible to communicate here with people throughout the world. I am also wondering about your experience of both religious ideas and psychology in relation to mine, as I was born and live in England. With the internet information is becoming far more universal throughout the world but education systems vary so much.

From what you are saying it appears to me that you are struggling with the problem of evil in relation to God. The reason why I refer to Jung so much is to acknowledge the basis of my own ideas and I wrote a dissertation on his ideas about the 'dark side' of God. This was based on one of his lesser known works, 'Answer to Job'. In this he explores the dark side of human nature and experience, tracing it to the image of God in the human mind. He suggests that the development of ideas about God have excluded evil from the picture.

So, I would say that the image of God which many people have can be one sided, and, often evil is projected onto the figure of Satan. Some pictures of whatever transcendent reality exists are more inclined to embrace opposites in the form of the yin and yang, as well as good and evil as aspects of a greater whole. I notice that you refer to God as 'she' which is less conventional than as 'he'. My understanding is that if there is a God, and by that I mean a source underlying the processes of life, and the spark of consciousness inherent in life, this source must be include the totality of opposites on some level. This includes the fuller picture of the sources of human suffering and I do think that some pictures of religious experience are too 'chocolate box' style and miss the way in which religious experience can include a diabolical side as well. Some Christian mystics spoke of the 'dark night of the soul'. Also, in churches there are often images of gargoyles, which represent the diabolical aspect of spiritual experience. It may be that your own experience involves this aspect.
It is my pleasure to talk to you here. Nice to meet you too.

The God is always being portrayed as "all-good". I think it is not the case I really face her in the real life. I cannot define she as a good guy or evil one, but it is just not the case of "all-good".

Furthermore, he or she wasn't worth to debate. What really matters are his or her behaviours, but not the gender issues. I usually refers the God to her, but it does not have any special meanings. Just one of my habits to refers the God as "her". No offences, really.

By the way, oh my god, you dare to wrote a dissertation on the issues related with the "God"? In a psychology degree? Oh my god, I think it is absolutely forbidden and being described as "insane" to talk about "God" in modern psychology fields. It surprised me.
Looking for the Truth Teller in this website http://itsmyurls.com/kk23wong
A Teller is the Teller in the Holy Bible if you are seeking.

Proverbs 12:17 - International Standard Version (ISV) - English
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Sculptor1
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Re: Relationships between Schizophrenia and the God

Post by Sculptor1 »

kk23wong wrote: May 28th, 2022, 10:36 am I have suffered from schizophrenia for a decade. My major and only symptom was auditory hallucinations (AH). The mysterious voice come directly into my head and I suspected it was actually the manipulation from the God. In another word, the God abuses her power (or ability) to communicate with us. In fact, it happened a lot in the history of humankind. For instance, the writing of bibles.

I am sorry if my writing is a little bit hard for you guys to read. English was not my mother tongue.

I hope it is not defined as insane to talk about the presence of the God in 21 century. It definitely need courage to speak out as a patient of schizophrenia, but I do think I have to speak out. Psychology nowadays has taken over philosophy in the explanations of mental illnesses. However, it does not necessarily mean they are correct.

The God abuses her ability to communicate with us to change our destinies. I think it is the truth behind all myths.

It was not strange that the God can speak to a large number of people at the same time, as well as in different places. Our computer could now process a lot of data at the same time too. Please be open-minded to this question.

I have to admit that the God is good at role-playing e.g. angels, demons, ghosts and inner-self etc. The "all-knowing" ability allows the God to know the history of everyone well. Hence, the God could play many roles by recalling our memories. It seems absurd, but the God is "all-knowing". I just don't know how. The situation is similar to the super-computers nowadays which could process many information at the same time instantly. How it actually works still remains a mystery.

I insist, "Schizophrenia is the by-product of the manipulations from the God. She abuses the abilities to communicate with us to create various legends. And the God preferred to hide her manipulations behind modern psychology with the aims to become an invisible hand behind our tangible world. Although the God decides our "Destinies", "Fates" are still in our hands. It is our "Free Will" which allows us to have fates. Hence, the God don't play dice. She plays with us. She fools us. To a certain extent, humankind are her toys."

It sorely depends on the intentions of the God to speak to you. If it was a punishment, she (the God/the voices) would probably start to role-playing as the ghosts or spirits. If the God wants you to be a priest or pastor, he or she will talk to you as an angel or demon. It all depends on the purposes of the God to talk to you.

The God manipulates our world and decides our destinies by talking to us. These voices were not caused by the imbalance of chemicals inside our brains as the modern psychology has claimed. The God just fooling around with her power to communicate with many of us at the same time. Meanwhile, the abilities of "all-knowing" and "having presence in everywhere", or I have to say the power of this "omniscient" God, allows her to role-playing almost everything. It includes angels, demons, ghosts, holy spirits and even our "inner-self". I don't know how but the God was even capable of reading my minds during getting along with me. The power of this mighty God keeps manipulating or world. The establishment of modern psychology was a mistake. It makes her manipulations of our world become even more difficult to be explained with. It makes me even harder to retaliate upon her manipulations. That is what we shall call the "destinies" of someone. Destinies and fates. Destinies come from the God, fates are still in our hands. It is my "Free Will" who makes me here today complaining the manipulations from the God.

The presence of the God does not necessarily proved the existence of souls. Nobody knows where we will go after death. I still believe that humankind are animals with higher intelligence only. Everyone was born to be, even the God herself! There are no offences. They are simply just some personal beliefs.

I know more or less the same about this manipulator with all of you. The only differences between me and the majority of the people is that I suffered from schizophrenia for more then a decade. For which, I experienced the manipulations of the God and I really resent her wrongdoings. Obviously, the God is not righteous and good all the time. The God has to do dirty works on her own too because she is the only one capable of doing them. She did it in purposes for modifying our world according to her own will. The struggles between the will of the God (I call it "destinies") and our "Free Will" (I call it "fates") always end up with tragedies. Those who refused to compromise go mad. At the end of the day, the God only becomes an invisible manipulator of our world. The truth is so upset. The God created destinies for us, but at the same time she also created her own destiny. That is being a manipulator. I wonder if she was satisfied with this role or not.

I suddenly think of a quote I found on the internet some days ago, "If you talk to God, you are praying; If God talks to you, you have schizophrenia."

See how the manipulations work :shock:

I know you guys have a lot to talk about this. Below are open to discussions.
Have you rationally considered that the voice "inside your head" is generated by YOU?
My brother became schizophrenic from the age of 18, and died last year after struggling with life and a heart condition caused by chain smoking.

What is actually happening is that you are having a conversation with yourself. When you realise that you are going to be able to cope with it much better.
Don't let the religious freaks tell you any differently.
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Re: Relationships between Schizophrenia and the God

Post by kk23wong »

Sculptor1 wrote: May 30th, 2022, 10:40 am Have you rationally considered that the voice "inside your head" is generated by YOU?
My brother became schizophrenic from the age of 18, and died last year after struggling with life and a heart condition caused by chain smoking.

What is actually happening is that you are having a conversation with yourself. When you realise that you are going to be able to cope with it much better.
Don't let the religious freaks tell you any differently.
I am sorry for your lost.

I did try to convince myself the "voices in my head" come from my inner-self, but it just doesn't work. This mysterious voice has a magical power to attract you to think deeper into your life, the world as well as the God.

One again, sorry for your lost. But it is not a good timing for me to stop explore the nature of the God, as well as our world.

Peace
Looking for the Truth Teller in this website http://itsmyurls.com/kk23wong
A Teller is the Teller in the Holy Bible if you are seeking.

Proverbs 12:17 - International Standard Version (ISV) - English
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Sculptor1
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Re: Relationships between Schizophrenia and the God

Post by Sculptor1 »

kk23wong wrote: May 30th, 2022, 11:07 am
Sculptor1 wrote: May 30th, 2022, 10:40 am Have you rationally considered that the voice "inside your head" is generated by YOU?
My brother became schizophrenic from the age of 18, and died last year after struggling with life and a heart condition caused by chain smoking.

What is actually happening is that you are having a conversation with yourself. When you realise that you are going to be able to cope with it much better.
Don't let the religious freaks tell you any differently.
I am sorry for your lost.

I did try to convince myself the "voices in my head" come from my inner-self, but it just doesn't work. This mysterious voice has a magical power to attract you to think deeper into your life, the world as well as the God.

One again, sorry for your lost. But it is not a good timing for me to stop explore the nature of the God, as well as our world.

Peace
Try this.
Pretend that the voice is generated by yourself.
What would be the consequences of that fact?
How would it be any different from believing that it is generated by an external force?
My brother was more at peace when he accepted his own inventiveness.
But he was always angry when he thought the god voice was from a "God".
Because a god that would do such a thing is evil.
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Re: Relationships between Schizophrenia and the God

Post by kk23wong »

Sculptor1 wrote: May 30th, 2022, 11:12 am Try this.
Pretend that the voice is generated by yourself.
What would be the consequences of that fact?
How would it be any different from believing that it is generated by an external force?
My brother was more at peace when he accepted his own inventiveness.
But he was always angry when he thought the god voice was from a "God".
Because a god that would do such a thing is evil.
If the voice actually come from the God, our understanding towards the external world would be a complete different story.

Truth does matters. Besides, didn't it make you curious?
The God is an invisible manipulator of our world and schizophrenia is an abuse from her.
Our cosmology would be entirely different and the truth may also create great impacts towards many academic subjects.

It worth a try to explore the reason behind this "illness". It is also a good attempt to discuss it in the public since our Free Will allows us to rise up against the dark side of the God. Or let me put it this way, schizophrenia is making some of us be aware of the evil side of the God - the dark side of our world.

Trust me. It's worthy for the public to discuss with and to explore this issue. The God should no longer be an invisible manipulator. Her presence is being exposed by the public discussions. It may also helps to stop the God from fooling around and get the things back onto the right track. It is one of my goals and current missions.
Looking for the Truth Teller in this website http://itsmyurls.com/kk23wong
A Teller is the Teller in the Holy Bible if you are seeking.

Proverbs 12:17 - International Standard Version (ISV) - English
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JackDaydream
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Re: Relationships between Schizophrenia and the God

Post by JackDaydream »

kk23wong wrote: May 30th, 2022, 1:32 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: May 30th, 2022, 11:12 am Try this.
Pretend that the voice is generated by yourself.
What would be the consequences of that fact?
How would it be any different from believing that it is generated by an external force?
My brother was more at peace when he accepted his own inventiveness.
But he was always angry when he thought the god voice was from a "God".
Because a god that would do such a thing is evil.
If the voice actually come from the God, our understanding towards the external world would be a complete different story.

Truth does matters. Besides, didn't it make you curious?
The God is an invisible manipulator of our world and schizophrenia is an abuse from her.
Our cosmology would be entirely different and the truth may also create great impacts towards many academic subjects.

It worth a try to explore the reason behind this "illness". It is also a good attempt to discuss it in the public since our Free Will allows us to rise up against the dark side of the God. Or let me put it this way, schizophrenia is making some of us be aware of the evil side of the God - the dark side of our world.

Trust me. It's worthy for the public to discuss with and to explore this issue. The God should no longer be an invisible manipulator. Her presence is being exposed by the public discussions. It may also helps to stop the God from fooling around and get the things back onto the right track. It is one of my goals and current missions.
I am not trying to tell you what to think, but I simply wonder if it is worth separating your experiences from the question of the existence of God. For example, I may have very strange dreams and, I do indeed have nightmares at time. However, I would see it as problematic to see them as coming from God directly. I see them in a neutral way, and I am not sure if they are relevant to the question of God's existence.

The general philosophy issue which seems to be underlying your thread is about the problem of evil in relation to the existence of God. It has been answered in different ways. Some have argued that God is not all powerful, some that God allows evil in order to allow people to have learning experiences. It is possible to see God as having a good and evil aspect. Or, it can be argued that the idea of God doesn't make sense. These are some of the various possibilities within philosophical thinking.

Of course, it is for you to decide what to think, but I do wonder if connecting the experiences of voices with the question of God's existence is making it harder to cope with the experiences which you are having. But, once again, I will say that I am not trying to tell you what to think.I am merely saying that because you have put the issue on a philosophy forum, so it may be worth exploring the possible varying ways in which philosophy may be useful to apply and reflect on your experience. That is how I see philosophy, as a way of reasoning for clarity of thoughts. But, of course, only you can decide what you think and I hope that my post doesn't seem too harsh.

Best wishes,
Jack
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Sculptor1
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Re: Relationships between Schizophrenia and the God

Post by Sculptor1 »

kk23wong wrote: May 30th, 2022, 1:32 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: May 30th, 2022, 11:12 am Try this.
Pretend that the voice is generated by yourself.
What would be the consequences of that fact?
How would it be any different from believing that it is generated by an external force?
My brother was more at peace when he accepted his own inventiveness.
But he was always angry when he thought the god voice was from a "God".
Because a god that would do such a thing is evil.
If the voice actually come from the God, our understanding towards the external world would be a complete different story.
But it does not, obviously.

Truth does matters. Besides, didn't it make you curious?
The God is an invisible manipulator of our world and schizophrenia is an abuse from her.
Our cosmology would be entirely different and the truth may also create great impacts towards many academic subjects.
I've known two people in my life why thought they were talking to god. No they "knew" god was talking to them.
They were never able to agree what God's message is.
Think it over.
What does god tell you to do?

It worth a try to explore the reason behind this "illness". It is also a good attempt to discuss it in the public since our Free Will allows us to rise up against the dark side of the God. Or let me put it this way, schizophrenia is making some of us be aware of the evil side of the God - the dark side of our world.
What does God tell you when you ask about the reasons behind the illness?

Trust me.
No. Trust is earned.
Of the two people that I have previously known that claim to "know" god, which of them ought I to have trusted?
It's worthy for the public to discuss with and to explore this issue. The God should no longer be an invisible manipulator. Her presence is being exposed by the public discussions. It may also helps to stop the God from fooling around and get the things back onto the right track. It is one of my goals and current missions.
What has god got to say?
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