God is dead. So help me God.

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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GrayArea
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Re: God is dead. So help me God.

Post by GrayArea »

gad-fly wrote: July 1st, 2022, 3:45 pm
GrayArea wrote: July 1st, 2022, 4:49 am
I suppose I can offer a small bit of idea to this discussion: God is dead only when we want him to be. We have control over our own thoughts. If God is "what ought to", then we still have the power to choose from "what ought to" or "what ought not to but what we still want". This whole process isn't what we "ought to do", it's what we "end up doing".
To remove it would leave an empty void which we have no hope of filling, as far as I can see. Who can help to play the replaced role, jointly or singly? I would appreciate reply in this respect.
Well, the question I first want to ask regarding the question in this reply would be, were we ever servants to these so-called necessary institutions, or have we just been "acting" like a servant to satiate our own desires? To me, the only thing that we truly rely on, the only necessary institutions that we serve, are ourselves and our desires—and it has always been this way. Everything that a man relies on, it is for the sake of himself. If it wasn't, he would not be relying to begin with. After all, it is he who relies in that moment, not anyone else.

So in truth, we serve whatever we serve in order to ultimately serve ourselves. This is the true necessary institution, the only institution that is actually able to leave an empty void which we have no hope of filling, when it is gone. The only thing that we subconsciously and continuously serve just by existing.

It should bring us content that we always have something to serve for no matter what. Something to rely on. But if you want to commit to serving yourself even more by serving other things other than yourself (for the sake of yourself), then just remember that now they don't have to be absolute or necessary anymore (much like "God"). This is because the thing that's absolute and necessary is already being served by you.
People perceive gray and argue about whether it's black or white.
gad-fly
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Re: God is dead. So help me God.

Post by gad-fly »

GrayArea wrote: July 2nd, 2022, 8:54 am
So in truth, we serve whatever we serve in order to ultimately serve ourselves. This is the true necessary institution
I take you to advocate that, in the absence of God, the only institution is the Law of the Jungle. Worse than lions and elephants, we humans are lone hunters like leopards, existing to survive and mate, and deriving satisfaction from domination. All help, except self-help, will be out of the question.
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GrayArea
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Re: God is dead. So help me God.

Post by GrayArea »

gad-fly wrote: July 2nd, 2022, 11:15 am
GrayArea wrote: July 2nd, 2022, 8:54 am
So in truth, we serve whatever we serve in order to ultimately serve ourselves. This is the true necessary institution
I take you to advocate that, in the absence of God, the only institution is the Law of the Jungle. Worse than lions and elephants, we humans are lone hunters like leopards, existing to survive and mate, and deriving satisfaction from domination. All help, except self-help, will be out of the question.
Yes, but I am also attempting to blur the boundaries between having nothing else to rely on and having something to rely on, because we can never have nothing else to rely on. We are still relying on ourselves.
People perceive gray and argue about whether it's black or white.
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GrayArea
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Re: God is dead. So help me God.

Post by GrayArea »

GrayArea wrote: July 2nd, 2022, 4:13 pm
gad-fly wrote: July 2nd, 2022, 11:15 am
GrayArea wrote: July 2nd, 2022, 8:54 am
So in truth, we serve whatever we serve in order to ultimately serve ourselves. This is the true necessary institution
I take you to advocate that, in the absence of God, the only institution is the Law of the Jungle. Worse than lions and elephants, we humans are lone hunters like leopards, existing to survive and mate, and deriving satisfaction from domination. All help, except self-help, will be out of the question.
Yes, but I am also attempting to blur the boundaries between having nothing else to rely on and having something to rely on, because we can never have nothing else to rely on. We are still relying on ourselves.
If I may add on, we also have to remember that if one truly "ought to" do a certain thing, then one will end up doing so in the end—whether by the virtue of one’s own desire or the world itself. Because the one thing that ought to happen is simply whatever happens within the world.
People perceive gray and argue about whether it's black or white.
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Sy Borg
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Re: God is dead. So help me God.

Post by Sy Borg »

JackDaydream wrote: June 30th, 2022, 3:44 pm
gad-fly wrote: June 30th, 2022, 12:41 pm Faulty title. How stupid to ask the dead to help. Apparently: Wrong timing. Should ask earlier, when God was still vibrant and potent.

In February 2020, when I started the post: "God is dying. Will he be dead?", I never expected it to stretch to 20 pages. Am I happy, as if having won the popularity contest? Not really, To be honest with you, many replies I have not read, and I fear joining the discussion now unprepared. No one to blame except myself for not narrowing the scope in the first place.

having learnt, I would like to emphasize that the present topic is not on whether God is Dead or not. "God is Dead" in the present context is taken to mean that, a priori, he is no is no longer present in our mind under any circumstance. You disagree? Fine. Mount your challenging points elsewhere.

The present post is on: So help me, any being, that is not God. Who are you, trying to help me? Would your help be enough, now that God is dead? Should I give up hope? Persuade me, support me, encourage me, and push and pull me forward with confidence, please. You can only philosophize? Still better than nothing. Come on. Isn't that what you are here for?
I have come across people who don't believe in God any longer who have admitted when they are in a desperate crisis they pray at times. This may be out of habit or even some underlying sense there is some kind of protective providence in the universe.
It's habit and conditioning. When teenagers are under stress, it's not uncommon for them to reach for comfort toys that they had put away years as children.
gad-fly
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Re: God is dead. So help me God.

Post by gad-fly »

JackDaydream wrote: June 30th, 2022, 3:44 pm
I have come across people who don't believe in God any longer who have admitted when they are in a desperate crisis they pray at times.
In crisis, praying is appealing to higher authority. One factor to make non-believer pray is that they have no way out. Suspending his belief is a small price to pay. As an afterthought, what has he got to lose even if his prayer is not answered? What bargain can be better?

The question asked in this post is : What higher authorities are at our disposal? So help me, Mr. Higher Authority.
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Sy Borg
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Re: God is dead. So help me God.

Post by Sy Borg »

gad-fly wrote: July 2nd, 2022, 10:59 pm
JackDaydream wrote: June 30th, 2022, 3:44 pm
I have come across people who don't believe in God any longer who have admitted when they are in a desperate crisis they pray at times.
In crisis, praying is appealing to higher authority. One factor to make non-believer pray is that they have no way out. Suspending his belief is a small price to pay. As an afterthought, what has he got to lose even if his prayer is not answered? What bargain can be better?

The question asked in this post is : What higher authorities are at our disposal? So help me, Mr. Higher Authority.
Agreed. The bargaining phase of dying.

In the end, it need not be the deity as described by one particular Middle Eastern Iron Age tribe. There are many conceptions of what could generally be thought of as a higher collective mind - be it a single deity, multiple competing deities, the pantheism of the Tao or Spinoza, Gaia and so forth.

My guess is that Taoism and Gaianism are the most credible conceptions. If true, it's easy to see how a living universe could be interpreted and anthropomorphised as God or Allah. Same with polytheism and how each deity expresses observed characteristics of reality.

The ancients were not idiots, just that there is much that we now know that they did not know back then, just as children are not fools but just have much to learn. They observed mental phenomena in themselves and others and formed opinions about them, based on the limited knowledge they had at the time.
gad-fly
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Re: God is dead. So help me God.

Post by gad-fly »

Sy Borg wrote: July 3rd, 2022, 8:33 pm
Agreed. The bargaining phase of dying.

In the end, it need not be the deity as described by one particular Middle Eastern Iron Age tribe. There are many conceptions of what could generally be thought of as a higher collective mind - be it a single deity, multiple competing deities, the pantheism of the Tao or Spinoza, Gaia and so forth.

My guess is that Taoism and Gaianism are the most credible conceptions. If true, it's easy to see how a living universe could be interpreted and anthropomorphised as God or Allah. Same with polytheism and how each deity expresses observed characteristics of reality.

The conclusion: If all options are off except Big Brother or God, you pray to one of them.

"My guess is that Taoism and Gaianism are the most credible conceptions." Do you have any non-religious guess?
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