Religion: Did psychedelic's over embellish what actually happened?

[ASYD-PAPI]

Growing up as a forced catholic, I found myself questioning a lot of the things teachers, priests and even parents, were teaching us about said catholic religion, miracles, god, Jesus, etc... I always wondered, was it really miracles, or was Jesus just a helpful Hebrew person who had knowledge of possible holistic, mindfulness and herb based practices passed on to him. Maybe, through helping the sick and needy, in a time where greed and arrogance were the more common ways people carried themselves. I think he used psilocybin, aka, "The Sacred Mushroom", mentioned everywhere in religions, rites, rituals, healing and so on. And being someone who uses mushrooms and LSD to delve into my mind, I could see where a simple cure to something that usually kills, which could have been as simple as an infected wound, to a simple cold, could be perceived as "Miraculous" and "Divine". How, colors and light stand out and shine brighter could have contributed to the visions of halo's, the aura of Jesus, even seeing things happening while he\she did the treatment like hand trails and waves that aren't there. And this is only counting mushrooms, it's been proven that drugs such as cocaine, Opium, Tobacco, Cannabis, DMT, Mescaline, etc...

In those times, especially in desert areas that did not receive much rain, if really any at all, was seen as, "The Semen of The Gods", as when it rained, vegetation would sprout, animals would gather, rainbows would appear and, drum roll, these small mudrooms would appear from the ground, as though, "A Gift of The Heavens", a gift of knowledge and self revelation. But we would not know all of this. Everything would be new experience. So, for a moment, imagine you are totally oblivious and hungry, you stumble upon some mushrooms growing from the ground. You've eaten other mushrooms before with no adverse effect. an hour passes and all of a sudden, reality starts to transform before your eyes. Colors shine brighter. Things seem to breath along with you. you're scared so you lay down and the trip takes you away and you see and feel all of these things you have never felt before. It's been written in all walks of life, religions, ancient texts, etc... The power of all of these substances and the benefits they could hold. So if they were prevalent during our whole ascension to the people we are today, is it that much of a stretch to think that, these massively used substances that alter the mind, body, soul, emotions and views, that books like the bible, were just story's, written like all other story's, embellished for the reader. Nobody is going to cause a movement over a book about a normal person who helped people in a time where that itself was rare, but they will move mountains to be a part of "the chosen", the "children of the one true god" if the reader believes that waters were split, the world was flooded, created even, by said "one true god", who gave his son to absolve us of all the bad that has been done before then, a person who can heal the sick by just a hover of the hands, who made a feast from a loaf of bread and 1 fish for a huge group of people, and then the one we have all "prayed" for, to turn water into wine. Then you tell them that if they live to serve god, aka "obey", in everything they do, to not sin( which is technically impossible ) and to do everything in servitude so we can die, and go on to serve again for eternity...

In my opinion, Jesus was just a person who probably cured a few sick people who would have died without his help. Gave instead of took, and gave as much and as often as he could, and did all this as a Hebrew man in a time where the romans wanted control, compliance and would silence and\or remove ANYTHING that could threaten that, say, a person gathering a following as a helpful, kind soul, and make them a martyr with a very brutal public showing to show what happens when you don't go with the program.

Tank you for reading, ASYD PAPI.

[JackDaydream]

Growing up as a forced catholic, I found myself questioning a lot of the things teachers, priests and even parents, were teaching us about said catholic religion, miracles, god, Jesus, etc... I always wondered, was it really miracles, or was Jesus just a helpful Hebrew person who had knowledge of possible holistic, mindfulness and herb based practices passed on to him. Maybe, through helping the sick and needy, in a time where greed and arrogance were the more common ways people carried themselves. I think he used psilocybin, aka, "The Sacred Mushroom", mentioned everywhere in religions, rites, rituals, healing and so on. And being someone who uses mushrooms and LSD to delve into my mind, I could see where a simple cure to something that usually kills, which could have been as simple as an infected wound, to a simple cold, could be perceived as "Miraculous" and "Divine". How, colors and light stand out and shine brighter could have contributed to the visions of halo's, the aura of Jesus, even seeing things happening while he\she did the treatment like hand trails and waves that aren't there. And this is only counting mushrooms, it's been proven that drugs such as cocaine, Opium, Tobacco, Cannabis, DMT, Mescaline, etc...

In those times, especially in desert areas that did not receive much rain, if really any at all, was seen as, "The Semen of The Gods", as when it rained, vegetation would sprout, animals would gather, rainbows would appear and, drum roll, these small mudrooms would appear from the ground, as though, "A Gift of The Heavens", a gift of knowledge and self revelation. But we would not know all of this. Everything would be new experience. So, for a moment, imagine you are totally oblivious and hungry, you stumble upon some mushrooms growing from the ground. You've eaten other mushrooms before with no adverse effect. an hour passes and all of a sudden, reality starts to transform before your eyes. Colors shine brighter. Things seem to breath along with you. you're scared so you lay down and the trip takes you away and you see and feel all of these things you have never felt before. It's been written in all walks of life, religions, ancient texts, etc... The power of all of these substances and the benefits they could hold. So if they were prevalent during our whole ascension to the people we are today, is it that much of a stretch to think that, these massively used substances that alter the mind, body, soul, emotions and views, that books like the bible, were just story's, written like all other story's, embellished for the reader. Nobody is going to cause a movement over a book about a normal person who helped people in a time where that itself was rare, but they will move mountains to be a part of "the chosen", the "children of the one true god" if the reader believes that waters were split, the world was flooded, created even, by said "one true god", who gave his son to absolve us of all the bad that has been done before then, a person who can heal the sick by just a hover of the hands, who made a feast from a loaf of bread and 1 fish for a huge group of people, and then the one we have all "prayed" for, to turn water into wine. Then you tell them that if they live to serve god, aka "obey", in everything they do, to not sin( which is technically impossible ) and to do everything in servitude so we can die, and go on to serve again for eternity...

In my opinion, Jesus was just a person who probably cured a few sick people who would have died without his help. Gave instead of took, and gave as much and as often as he could, and did all this as a Hebrew man in a time where the romans wanted control, compliance and would silence and\or remove ANYTHING that could threaten that, say, a person gathering a following as a helpful, kind soul, and make them a martyr with a very brutal public showing to show what happens when you don't go with the program.

Tank you for reading, ASYD PAPI.

We have a few things in common because I grew up as a Catholic and questioned all my beliefs during my student years. I also began experimenting with psychedelics at that time, including cannabis and LSD.

Having done all that, I am not sure exactly where my experimentation led me to with religious beliefs because I felt that I saw a different reality on LSD but I am aware that it was chemically induced. I did feel as though I got out of my body and I have had some out of body experiences without drugs, and I am not a physicalist, because I am aware of subtle aspects of reality which seem beyond the basis of the material world. I don't interpret the Bible literally but I am not an atheist and have a strong interest in comparative religion.

[stevie]

Growing up as a forced catholic, I found myself questioning a lot of the things teachers, priests and even parents, were teaching us about said catholic religion, miracles, god, Jesus, etc... I always wondered, was it really miracles, or was Jesus just a helpful Hebrew person who had knowledge of possible holistic, mindfulness and herb based practices passed on to him. Maybe, through helping the sick and needy, in a time where greed and arrogance were the more common ways people carried themselves. I think he used psilocybin, aka, "The Sacred Mushroom", mentioned everywhere in religions, rites, rituals, healing and so on. And being someone who uses mushrooms and LSD to delve into my mind, I could see where a simple cure to something that usually kills, which could have been as simple as an infected wound, to a simple cold, could be perceived as "Miraculous" and "Divine". How, colors and light stand out and shine brighter could have contributed to the visions of halo's, the aura of Jesus, even seeing things happening while he\she did the treatment like hand trails and waves that aren't there. And this is only counting mushrooms, it's been proven that drugs such as cocaine, Opium, Tobacco, Cannabis, DMT, Mescaline, etc...

In those times, especially in desert areas that did not receive much rain, if really any at all, was seen as, "The Semen of The Gods", as when it rained, vegetation would sprout, animals would gather, rainbows would appear and, drum roll, these small mudrooms would appear from the ground, as though, "A Gift of The Heavens", a gift of knowledge and self revelation. But we would not know all of this. Everything would be new experience. So, for a moment, imagine you are totally oblivious and hungry, you stumble upon some mushrooms growing from the ground. You've eaten other mushrooms before with no adverse effect. an hour passes and all of a sudden, reality starts to transform before your eyes. Colors shine brighter. Things seem to breath along with you. you're scared so you lay down and the trip takes you away and you see and feel all of these things you have never felt before. It's been written in all walks of life, religions, ancient texts, etc... The power of all of these substances and the benefits they could hold. So if they were prevalent during our whole ascension to the people we are today, is it that much of a stretch to think that, these massively used substances that alter the mind, body, soul, emotions and views, that books like the bible, were just story's, written like all other story's, embellished for the reader. Nobody is going to cause a movement over a book about a normal person who helped people in a time where that itself was rare, but they will move mountains to be a part of "the chosen", the "children of the one true god" if the reader believes that waters were split, the world was flooded, created even, by said "one true god", who gave his son to absolve us of all the bad that has been done before then, a person who can heal the sick by just a hover of the hands, who made a feast from a loaf of bread and 1 fish for a huge group of people, and then the one we have all "prayed" for, to turn water into wine. Then you tell them that if they live to serve god, aka "obey", in everything they do, to not sin( which is technically impossible ) and to do everything in servitude so we can die, and go on to serve again for eternity...

In my opinion, Jesus was just a person who probably cured a few sick people who would have died without his help. Gave instead of took, and gave as much and as often as he could, and did all this as a Hebrew man in a time where the romans wanted control, compliance and would silence and\or remove ANYTHING that could threaten that, say, a person gathering a following as a helpful, kind soul, and make them a martyr with a very brutal public showing to show what happens when you don't go with the program.

Tank you for reading, ASYD PAPI.

When it comes to religions opinions are worthless. Either you study their doctrine in depth including their authoritative interpretations of scripture or you ignore it. Most individuals get stuck from the beginning in the conflict "Do I believe this or not?" but that's a silly initial approach because if one does not know the doctrine and its authoritative interpretations in depth then the question "Do I believe this or not?" has no point of reference.

[ASYD-PAPI]

Growing up as a forced catholic, I found myself questioning a lot of the things teachers, priests and even parents, were teaching us about said catholic religion, miracles, god, Jesus, etc... I always wondered, was it really miracles, or was Jesus just a helpful Hebrew person who had knowledge of possible holistic, mindfulness and herb based practices passed on to him. Maybe, through helping the sick and needy, in a time where greed and arrogance were the more common ways people carried themselves. I think he used psilocybin, aka, "The Sacred Mushroom", mentioned everywhere in religions, rites, rituals, healing and so on. And being someone who uses mushrooms and LSD to delve into my mind, I could see where a simple cure to something that usually kills, which could have been as simple as an infected wound, to a simple cold, could be perceived as "Miraculous" and "Divine". How, colors and light stand out and shine brighter could have contributed to the visions of halo's, the aura of Jesus, even seeing things happening while he\she did the treatment like hand trails and waves that aren't there. And this is only counting mushrooms, it's been proven that drugs such as cocaine, Opium, Tobacco, Cannabis, DMT, Mescaline, etc...

In those times, especially in desert areas that did not receive much rain, if really any at all, was seen as, "The Semen of The Gods", as when it rained, vegetation would sprout, animals would gather, rainbows would appear and, drum roll, these small mudrooms would appear from the ground, as though, "A Gift of The Heavens", a gift of knowledge and self revelation. But we would not know all of this. Everything would be new experience. So, for a moment, imagine you are totally oblivious and hungry, you stumble upon some mushrooms growing from the ground. You've eaten other mushrooms before with no adverse effect. an hour passes and all of a sudden, reality starts to transform before your eyes. Colors shine brighter. Things seem to breath along with you. you're scared so you lay down and the trip takes you away and you see and feel all of these things you have never felt before. It's been written in all walks of life, religions, ancient texts, etc... The power of all of these substances and the benefits they could hold. So if they were prevalent during our whole ascension to the people we are today, is it that much of a stretch to think that, these massively used substances that alter the mind, body, soul, emotions and views, that books like the bible, were just story's, written like all other story's, embellished for the reader. Nobody is going to cause a movement over a book about a normal person who helped people in a time where that itself was rare, but they will move mountains to be a part of "the chosen", the "children of the one true god" if the reader believes that waters were split, the world was flooded, created even, by said "one true god", who gave his son to absolve us of all the bad that has been done before then, a person who can heal the sick by just a hover of the hands, who made a feast from a loaf of bread and 1 fish for a huge group of people, and then the one we have all "prayed" for, to turn water into wine. Then you tell them that if they live to serve god, aka "obey", in everything they do, to not sin( which is technically impossible ) and to do everything in servitude so we can die, and go on to serve again for eternity...

In my opinion, Jesus was just a person who probably cured a few sick people who would have died without his help. Gave instead of took, and gave as much and as often as he could, and did all this as a Hebrew man in a time where the romans wanted control, compliance and would silence and\or remove ANYTHING that could threaten that, say, a person gathering a following as a helpful, kind soul, and make them a martyr with a very brutal public showing to show what happens when you don't go with the program.

Tank you for reading, ASYD PAPI.

We have a few things in common because I grew up as a Catholic and questioned all my beliefs during my student years. I also began experimenting with psychedelics at that time, including cannabis and LSD.

Having done all that, I am not sure exactly where my experimentation led me to with religious beliefs because I felt that I saw a different reality on LSD but I am aware that it was chemically induced. I did feel as though I got out of my body and I have had some out of body experiences without drugs, and I am not a physicalist, because I am aware of subtle aspects of reality which seem beyond the basis of the material world. I don't interpret the Bible literally but I am not an atheist and have a strong interest in comparative religion.

You seem to have fallen the same way I have, still in the unknown but feeling more entuned with it. I see myself as spiritual as everything I have seen on my trips have always led to me seeing and feeling a force around me, but just out of reach at most times. And when reachable, it's extremely hard to hold onto it.. But many more to come. I just feel that everyone is swept up in a religion that strikes drug use as a sin, but which, was most likely derived from.

[ASYD-PAPI]

Growing up as a forced catholic, I found myself questioning a lot of the things teachers, priests and even parents, were teaching us about said catholic religion, miracles, god, Jesus, etc... I always wondered, was it really miracles, or was Jesus just a helpful Hebrew person who had knowledge of possible holistic, mindfulness and herb based practices passed on to him. Maybe, through helping the sick and needy, in a time where greed and arrogance were the more common ways people carried themselves. I think he used psilocybin, aka, "The Sacred Mushroom", mentioned everywhere in religions, rites, rituals, healing and so on. And being someone who uses mushrooms and LSD to delve into my mind, I could see where a simple cure to something that usually kills, which could have been as simple as an infected wound, to a simple cold, could be perceived as "Miraculous" and "Divine". How, colors and light stand out and shine brighter could have contributed to the visions of halo's, the aura of Jesus, even seeing things happening while he\she did the treatment like hand trails and waves that aren't there. And this is only counting mushrooms, it's been proven that drugs such as cocaine, Opium, Tobacco, Cannabis, DMT, Mescaline, etc...

In those times, especially in desert areas that did not receive much rain, if really any at all, was seen as, "The Semen of The Gods", as when it rained, vegetation would sprout, animals would gather, rainbows would appear and, drum roll, these small mudrooms would appear from the ground, as though, "A Gift of The Heavens", a gift of knowledge and self revelation. But we would not know all of this. Everything would be new experience. So, for a moment, imagine you are totally oblivious and hungry, you stumble upon some mushrooms growing from the ground. You've eaten other mushrooms before with no adverse effect. an hour passes and all of a sudden, reality starts to transform before your eyes. Colors shine brighter. Things seem to breath along with you. you're scared so you lay down and the trip takes you away and you see and feel all of these things you have never felt before. It's been written in all walks of life, religions, ancient texts, etc... The power of all of these substances and the benefits they could hold. So if they were prevalent during our whole ascension to the people we are today, is it that much of a stretch to think that, these massively used substances that alter the mind, body, soul, emotions and views, that books like the bible, were just story's, written like all other story's, embellished for the reader. Nobody is going to cause a movement over a book about a normal person who helped people in a time where that itself was rare, but they will move mountains to be a part of "the chosen", the "children of the one true god" if the reader believes that waters were split, the world was flooded, created even, by said "one true god", who gave his son to absolve us of all the bad that has been done before then, a person who can heal the sick by just a hover of the hands, who made a feast from a loaf of bread and 1 fish for a huge group of people, and then the one we have all "prayed" for, to turn water into wine. Then you tell them that if they live to serve god, aka "obey", in everything they do, to not sin( which is technically impossible ) and to do everything in servitude so we can die, and go on to serve again for eternity...

In my opinion, Jesus was just a person who probably cured a few sick people who would have died without his help. Gave instead of took, and gave as much and as often as he could, and did all this as a Hebrew man in a time where the romans wanted control, compliance and would silence and\or remove ANYTHING that could threaten that, say, a person gathering a following as a helpful, kind soul, and make them a martyr with a very brutal public showing to show what happens when you don't go with the program.

Tank you for reading, ASYD PAPI.

When it comes to religions opinions are worthless. Either you study their doctrine in depth including their authoritative interpretations of scripture or you ignore it. Most individuals get stuck from the beginning in the conflict "Do I believe this or not?" but that's a silly initial approach because if one does not know the doctrine and its authoritative interpretations in depth then the question "Do I believe this or not?" has no point of reference.

Opinions are never useless. You don't know what I know( not an intelligence insult, You can't actually know what someone else has studied ) and that was not the question.

[stevie]

Growing up as a forced catholic, I found myself questioning a lot of the things teachers, priests and even parents, were teaching us about said catholic religion, miracles, god, Jesus, etc... I always wondered, was it really miracles, or was Jesus just a helpful Hebrew person who had knowledge of possible holistic, mindfulness and herb based practices passed on to him. Maybe, through helping the sick and needy, in a time where greed and arrogance were the more common ways people carried themselves. I think he used psilocybin, aka, "The Sacred Mushroom", mentioned everywhere in religions, rites, rituals, healing and so on. And being someone who uses mushrooms and LSD to delve into my mind, I could see where a simple cure to something that usually kills, which could have been as simple as an infected wound, to a simple cold, could be perceived as "Miraculous" and "Divine". How, colors and light stand out and shine brighter could have contributed to the visions of halo's, the aura of Jesus, even seeing things happening while he\she did the treatment like hand trails and waves that aren't there. And this is only counting mushrooms, it's been proven that drugs such as cocaine, Opium, Tobacco, Cannabis, DMT, Mescaline, etc...

In those times, especially in desert areas that did not receive much rain, if really any at all, was seen as, "The Semen of The Gods", as when it rained, vegetation would sprout, animals would gather, rainbows would appear and, drum roll, these small mudrooms would appear from the ground, as though, "A Gift of The Heavens", a gift of knowledge and self revelation. But we would not know all of this. Everything would be new experience. So, for a moment, imagine you are totally oblivious and hungry, you stumble upon some mushrooms growing from the ground. You've eaten other mushrooms before with no adverse effect. an hour passes and all of a sudden, reality starts to transform before your eyes. Colors shine brighter. Things seem to breath along with you. you're scared so you lay down and the trip takes you away and you see and feel all of these things you have never felt before. It's been written in all walks of life, religions, ancient texts, etc... The power of all of these substances and the benefits they could hold. So if they were prevalent during our whole ascension to the people we are today, is it that much of a stretch to think that, these massively used substances that alter the mind, body, soul, emotions and views, that books like the bible, were just story's, written like all other story's, embellished for the reader. Nobody is going to cause a movement over a book about a normal person who helped people in a time where that itself was rare, but they will move mountains to be a part of "the chosen", the "children of the one true god" if the reader believes that waters were split, the world was flooded, created even, by said "one true god", who gave his son to absolve us of all the bad that has been done before then, a person who can heal the sick by just a hover of the hands, who made a feast from a loaf of bread and 1 fish for a huge group of people, and then the one we have all "prayed" for, to turn water into wine. Then you tell them that if they live to serve god, aka "obey", in everything they do, to not sin( which is technically impossible ) and to do everything in servitude so we can die, and go on to serve again for eternity...

In my opinion, Jesus was just a person who probably cured a few sick people who would have died without his help. Gave instead of took, and gave as much and as often as he could, and did all this as a Hebrew man in a time where the romans wanted control, compliance and would silence and\or remove ANYTHING that could threaten that, say, a person gathering a following as a helpful, kind soul, and make them a martyr with a very brutal public showing to show what happens when you don't go with the program.

Tank you for reading, ASYD PAPI.

When it comes to religions opinions are worthless. Either you study their doctrine in depth including their authoritative interpretations of scripture or you ignore it. Most individuals get stuck from the beginning in the conflict "Do I believe this or not?" but that's a silly initial approach because if one does not know the doctrine and its authoritative interpretations in depth then the question "Do I believe this or not?" has no point of reference.

Opinions are never useless. You don't know what I know( not an intelligence insult, You can't actually know what someone else has studied ) and that was not the question.

If you have studied their doctrine you can comment on it providing transparent reference to the text you comment on. Mere opinions are worthless because without transparent textual evidence they simply refer to other opinions of oneself but not to the religion in question.

[JDBowden]

We could also look at it as religion narrows the mind to what scripture objectively says, vs. LSD which opens it.

Wasn't the DNA double-helix first proposed by guys on an LSD trip? Carl Sagen wrote equations in the shower steam on the glass while smoking pot.

[ASYD-PAPI]

We could also look at it as religion narrows the mind to what scripture objectively says, vs. LSD which opens it.

Wasn't the DNA double-helix first proposed by guys on an LSD trip? Carl Sagen wrote equations in the shower steam on the glass while smoking pot.

That is a whole other rabbit hole, in said rabbit hole haha

[Sy Borg]

The Romans didn't need it. They were already tripping out because their water was being delivered in lead pipes. Constantine adopted Christianity after having a vision, and this may well have been a hallucination triggered by lead poisoning.

Constantine's conversion effectively heralded in the Dark Ages - a millennium of stagnation, suffering and ignorance under the yolk of the Catholic Church, which was drunk with power as it tortured and executed innocents, stole vast amounts of wealth from the people, abused minors and suppressed science.

History might have been completely different had Roman plumbing used copper pipes instead of lead.

[JackDaydream]

Growing up as a forced catholic, I found myself questioning a lot of the things teachers, priests and even parents, were teaching us about said catholic religion, miracles, god, Jesus, etc... I always wondered, was it really miracles, or was Jesus just a helpful Hebrew person who had knowledge of possible holistic, mindfulness and herb based practices passed on to him. Maybe, through helping the sick and needy, in a time where greed and arrogance were the more common ways people carried themselves. I think he used psilocybin, aka, "The Sacred Mushroom", mentioned everywhere in religions, rites, rituals, healing and so on. And being someone who uses mushrooms and LSD to delve into my mind, I could see where a simple cure to something that usually kills, which could have been as simple as an infected wound, to a simple cold, could be perceived as "Miraculous" and "Divine". How, colors and light stand out and shine brighter could have contributed to the visions of halo's, the aura of Jesus, even seeing things happening while he\she did the treatment like hand trails and waves that aren't there. And this is only counting mushrooms, it's been proven that drugs such as cocaine, Opium, Tobacco, Cannabis, DMT, Mescaline, etc...

In those times, especially in desert areas that did not receive much rain, if really any at all, was seen as, "The Semen of The Gods", as when it rained, vegetation would sprout, animals would gather, rainbows would appear and, drum roll, these small mudrooms would appear from the ground, as though, "A Gift of The Heavens", a gift of knowledge and self revelation. But we would not know all of this. Everything would be new experience. So, for a moment, imagine you are totally oblivious and hungry, you stumble upon some mushrooms growing from the ground. You've eaten other mushrooms before with no adverse effect. an hour passes and all of a sudden, reality starts to transform before your eyes. Colors shine brighter. Things seem to breath along with you. you're scared so you lay down and the trip takes you away and you see and feel all of these things you have never felt before. It's been written in all walks of life, religions, ancient texts, etc... The power of all of these substances and the benefits they could hold. So if they were prevalent during our whole ascension to the people we are today, is it that much of a stretch to think that, these massively used substances that alter the mind, body, soul, emotions and views, that books like the bible, were just story's, written like all other story's, embellished for the reader. Nobody is going to cause a movement over a book about a normal person who helped people in a time where that itself was rare, but they will move mountains to be a part of "the chosen", the "children of the one true god" if the reader believes that waters were split, the world was flooded, created even, by said "one true god", who gave his son to absolve us of all the bad that has been done before then, a person who can heal the sick by just a hover of the hands, who made a feast from a loaf of bread and 1 fish for a huge group of people, and then the one we have all "prayed" for, to turn water into wine. Then you tell them that if they live to serve god, aka "obey", in everything they do, to not sin( which is technically impossible ) and to do everything in servitude so we can die, and go on to serve again for eternity...

In my opinion, Jesus was just a person who probably cured a few sick people who would have died without his help. Gave instead of took, and gave as much and as often as he could, and did all this as a Hebrew man in a time where the romans wanted control, compliance and would silence and\or remove ANYTHING that could threaten that, say, a person gathering a following as a helpful, kind soul, and make them a martyr with a very brutal public showing to show what happens when you don't go with the program.

Tank you for reading, ASYD PAPI.

We have a few things in common because I grew up as a Catholic and questioned all my beliefs during my student years. I also began experimenting with psychedelics at that time, including cannabis and LSD.

Having done all that, I am not sure exactly where my experimentation led me to with religious beliefs because I felt that I saw a different reality on LSD but I am aware that it was chemically induced. I did feel as though I got out of my body and I have had some out of body experiences without drugs, and I am not a physicalist, because I am aware of subtle aspects of reality which seem beyond the basis of the material world. I don't interpret the Bible literally but I am not an atheist and have a strong interest in comparative religion.

You seem to have fallen the same way I have, still in the unknown but feeling more entuned with it. I see myself as spiritual as everything I have seen on my trips have always led to me seeing and feeling a force around me, but just out of reach at most times. And when reachable, it's extremely hard to hold onto it.. But many more to come. I just feel that everyone is swept up in a religion that strikes drug use as a sin, but which, was most likely derived from.

I can see why people, including the Buddhists, see drugs as harmful because they are dangerous in some respects. That is because they often open up aspects of the mind prematurely. I have known many people who have become unwell, especially on some of the strongest skunk weed. There is the issue of drug induced psychosis, which I have seen in friends and while working in mental health care.

I experimented with acid a few weeks before starting my mental health nursing training and felt affected by the the experience for some time. I can remember sitting in the classroom and seeing auras, which were probably flashbacks. The reason why I took it the second time was because I felt as if I had not into my body correctly and wished to try to do so by another trip and it sort of worked. I gave up using cannabis after I began working but I have used it a few times recently and I am not working presently anyway.

One of the biggest dangers though may be people who just take drugs for fun. I never did that really because I was looking at it more for meditation and creativity. I was interested in astral projection. However, it can be too much of a shortcut. One particular writer who I have come across is Zaechner who wrote about the difference between sacred and profane mysticism, with the latter being chemically induced.

Another aspect which is relevant is what Gopi Krishna speaks of as the awakening of kundalini, which is an energy force rising from the base of the spine to the centre of the forehead. It can happen naturally but drugs may start it or speed it up. The idea is an Eastern one but I do believe in it because I feel aware of such energy

[ASYD-PAPI]

The Romans didn't need it. They were already tripping out because their water was being delivered in lead pipes. Constantine adopted Christianity after having a vision, and this may well have been a hallucination triggered by lead poisoning.

Constantine's conversion effectively heralded in the Dark Ages - a millennium of stagnation, suffering and ignorance under the yolk of the Catholic Church, which was drunk with power as it tortured and executed innocents, stole vast amounts of wealth from the people, abused minors and suppressed science.

History might have been completely different had Roman plumbing used copper pipes instead of lead.

Thank you for this, I've read up, briefly, on Constantine but this peaks my curiosity very much so!!!! And, I never even considered poisonous substances being used as either medicine, in plumbing and irrigation, foods, etc.. You raise an amazing point!

[ASYD-PAPI]

Growing up as a forced catholic, I found myself questioning a lot of the things teachers, priests and even parents, were teaching us about said catholic religion, miracles, god, Jesus, etc... I always wondered, was it really miracles, or was Jesus just a helpful Hebrew person who had knowledge of possible holistic, mindfulness and herb based practices passed on to him. Maybe, through helping the sick and needy, in a time where greed and arrogance were the more common ways people carried themselves. I think he used psilocybin, aka, "The Sacred Mushroom", mentioned everywhere in religions, rites, rituals, healing and so on. And being someone who uses mushrooms and LSD to delve into my mind, I could see where a simple cure to something that usually kills, which could have been as simple as an infected wound, to a simple cold, could be perceived as "Miraculous" and "Divine". How, colors and light stand out and shine brighter could have contributed to the visions of halo's, the aura of Jesus, even seeing things happening while he\she did the treatment like hand trails and waves that aren't there. And this is only counting mushrooms, it's been proven that drugs such as cocaine, Opium, Tobacco, Cannabis, DMT, Mescaline, etc...

In those times, especially in desert areas that did not receive much rain, if really any at all, was seen as, "The Semen of The Gods", as when it rained, vegetation would sprout, animals would gather, rainbows would appear and, drum roll, these small mudrooms would appear from the ground, as though, "A Gift of The Heavens", a gift of knowledge and self revelation. But we would not know all of this. Everything would be new experience. So, for a moment, imagine you are totally oblivious and hungry, you stumble upon some mushrooms growing from the ground. You've eaten other mushrooms before with no adverse effect. an hour passes and all of a sudden, reality starts to transform before your eyes. Colors shine brighter. Things seem to breath along with you. you're scared so you lay down and the trip takes you away and you see and feel all of these things you have never felt before. It's been written in all walks of life, religions, ancient texts, etc... The power of all of these substances and the benefits they could hold. So if they were prevalent during our whole ascension to the people we are today, is it that much of a stretch to think that, these massively used substances that alter the mind, body, soul, emotions and views, that books like the bible, were just story's, written like all other story's, embellished for the reader. Nobody is going to cause a movement over a book about a normal person who helped people in a time where that itself was rare, but they will move mountains to be a part of "the chosen", the "children of the one true god" if the reader believes that waters were split, the world was flooded, created even, by said "one true god", who gave his son to absolve us of all the bad that has been done before then, a person who can heal the sick by just a hover of the hands, who made a feast from a loaf of bread and 1 fish for a huge group of people, and then the one we have all "prayed" for, to turn water into wine. Then you tell them that if they live to serve god, aka "obey", in everything they do, to not sin( which is technically impossible ) and to do everything in servitude so we can die, and go on to serve again for eternity...

In my opinion, Jesus was just a person who probably cured a few sick people who would have died without his help. Gave instead of took, and gave as much and as often as he could, and did all this as a Hebrew man in a time where the romans wanted control, compliance and would silence and\or remove ANYTHING that could threaten that, say, a person gathering a following as a helpful, kind soul, and make them a martyr with a very brutal public showing to show what happens when you don't go with the program.

Tank you for reading, ASYD PAPI.

We have a few things in common because I grew up as a Catholic and questioned all my beliefs during my student years. I also began experimenting with psychedelics at that time, including cannabis and LSD.

Having done all that, I am not sure exactly where my experimentation led me to with religious beliefs because I felt that I saw a different reality on LSD but I am aware that it was chemically induced. I did feel as though I got out of my body and I have had some out of body experiences without drugs, and I am not a physicalist, because I am aware of subtle aspects of reality which seem beyond the basis of the material world. I don't interpret the Bible literally but I am not an atheist and have a strong interest in comparative religion.

You seem to have fallen the same way I have, still in the unknown but feeling more entuned with it. I see myself as spiritual as everything I have seen on my trips have always led to me seeing and feeling a force around me, but just out of reach at most times. And when reachable, it's extremely hard to hold onto it.. But many more to come. I just feel that everyone is swept up in a religion that strikes drug use as a sin, but which, was most likely derived from.

I can see why people, including the Buddhists, see drugs as harmful because they are dangerous in some respects. That is because they often open up aspects of the mind prematurely. I have known many people who have become unwell, especially on some of the strongest skunk weed. There is the issue of drug induced psychosis, which I have seen in friends and while working in mental health care.

I experimented with acid a few weeks before starting my mental health nursing training and felt affected by the the experience for some time. I can remember sitting in the classroom and seeing auras, which were probably flashbacks. The reason why I took it the second time was because I felt as if I had not into my body correctly and wished to try to do so by another trip and it sort of worked. I gave up using cannabis after I began working but I have used it a few times recently and I am not working presently anyway.

One of the biggest dangers though may be people who just take drugs for fun. I never did that really because I was looking at it more for meditation and creativity. I was interested in astral projection. However, it can be too much of a shortcut. One particular writer who I have come across is Zaechner who wrote about the difference between sacred and profane mysticism, with the latter being chemically induced.

Another aspect which is relevant is what Gopi Krishna speaks of as the awakening of kundalini, which is an energy force rising from the base of the spine to the center of the forehead. It can happen naturally but drugs may start it or speed it up. The idea is an Eastern one but I do believe in it because I feel aware of such energy

I feel aware of these energies as well, and I 100% agree on; "..biggest dangers though may be people who just take drugs for fun.". Being a recovering addict, I have noticed it harder to, say, attain or touch these energies as others describe from their psychedelic trips. I can see and feel it, but not access it in a way. A good analogy would be that, it's like a malicious file that I don't have the programming capability to open yet. I use psychedelics very carefully for this reason, in a way. I take big doses, but through experience, I know when to alter my area and such, but in that, you lose the chance to feel the bad, which can be the most revealing, because you've trained your mind to fight that feeling even before it comes to be.

I would love to talk to you personally but I cannot send private messages at this moment as I am new to this forum. but if you can, and are willing, I would love to exchange emails. Your background sounds like something that could seriously help me as I suffer many mental illnesses that I still don't fully understand.
Thank you for you very intriguing reply, I have more research material now!

[Sy Borg]

The Romans didn't need it. They were already tripping out because their water was being delivered in lead pipes. Constantine adopted Christianity after having a vision, and this may well have been a hallucination triggered by lead poisoning.

Constantine's conversion effectively heralded in the Dark Ages - a millennium of stagnation, suffering and ignorance under the yolk of the Catholic Church, which was drunk with power as it tortured and executed innocents, stole vast amounts of wealth from the people, abused minors and suppressed science.

History might have been completely different had Roman plumbing used copper pipes instead of lead.

Thank you for this, I've read up, briefly, on Constantine but this peaks my curiosity very much so!!!! And, I never even considered poisonous substances being used as either medicine, in plumbing and irrigation, foods, etc.. You raise an amazing point!

We humans are, ultimately, bags of hydrated chemicals, a fact that we often try to overlook, but so much of what life does is chemical manipulation - breathing, consuming, digesting, exuding and emoting.

[Gee]

The Romans didn't need it. They were already tripping out because their water was being delivered in lead pipes. Constantine adopted Christianity after having a vision, and this may well have been a hallucination triggered by lead poisoning.

Constantine's conversion effectively heralded in the Dark Ages - a millennium of stagnation, suffering and ignorance under the yolk of the Catholic Church, which was drunk with power as it tortured and executed innocents, stole vast amounts of wealth from the people, abused minors and suppressed science.

History might have been completely different had Roman plumbing used copper pipes instead of lead.

I have no doubt that lead pipes caused a lot of trouble for the Romans, along with other cooking/eating equipment that was tainted. These things might well have contributed to the fall of Rome, but I don't think we can attribute the Dark Ages to lead pipes and Constantine. Chemistry is very relevant to religious ideas, but it is more than just lead.

First, I want to address your comments on Constantine. My understanding is that he was a great organizer and manager. He reworked a lot of different areas of government, but one of the things he did was rewrite the laws regarding religion. He did not really work on Christian doctrine as much as he opened the law to all religions so that they could be practiced without prejudice or danger. He did merge as many ideas as was feasible with regard to religious holidays and ideas related to various older religions with new religions (Christianity), which is why there are Christian holidays that are celebrated on pagan occasions -- like Christmas and probably Easter.

So you could say that Constantine opened the door to religion, but it was Augustine, a hundred or so years later, (about 450 CE) who ushered in the Dark Ages. Augustine was a prolific writer, who wrote most of the Church doctrine including coming up with the ideas of Original Sin, descriptions of Heaven and Hell, the justification of fighting for "God", which empowered the Crusades centuries later, and a great deal more. He embraced forms of Neoplatonism and was enamored of the abstract thoughts of Plato, which could be converted to Christian ideals, but he despised Aristotle (science) as evidence and logic had no place with "God". Augustine thought that belief in "God" was enough.

Ironically, it was the Crusaders, who rediscovered Aristotle's work that had been preserved by the "heathens" in the Middle East. Aristotle's work was brought back to the European Christian Church where it was studied by the clerics and eventually changed people's minds and attitudes including Aquinas, who was another prolific writer. So about 800 years after Augustine closed the doors to logic, evidence, and science, Aquinas produced Church doctrine that opened the doors back up and ushered in the Renaissance. The Dark Ages were the centuries between Augustine's doctrines and Aquinas's doctrines.

As far as chemicals are concerned, there are many different kinds from magic mushrooms, peyote, marijuana, lead pipes, DMT, LSD, the gases in the cave of Socrates' Oracle, sleep deprivation and hunger, which can change your hormones and mental abilities as used by monks to reach enlightenment, and then there has been the belief in some schizophrenic's ideas. People have used lots and lots of things to try to understand their "Gods".

Gee

[Sy Borg]

Thanks for your reply, Gee. Interesting!

I've been trying to get a better handle on history and it seems to me that if Constantine had a vision that converted him, then one can speculate on what caused it, and lead pipes would seem to be a fair candidate., since hallucinations is among the symptoms.

Having enjoys a couple of peak experiences, I have much sympathy for those who used entheogens down through history, trying to understand extraordinary states of mind. One can only imagine how mind blowing it must have been for prehistoric humans. Magic!