What is Christianity? What is its purpose?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
Nick_A
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Re: What is Christianity? What is its purpose?

Post by Nick_A »

Paul in Romans 6:14 wrote:
You are not under law but under grace.
If you don't understand this, you must deny the essence of Christianity. It cannot have any value for you. The law cannot survive the desires of the ego so must fail. Grace offers the only solution for Christianity to serve its inner purpose for those who remain open to receive it.
“Just as the power of the sun is the only force in the natural universe that causes a plant to grow against gravity, so the grace of God is the only force in the spiritual universe that causes a person to grow against the gravity of their own ego.” — Simone Weil
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace
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JackDaydream
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Re: What is Christianity? What is its purpose?

Post by JackDaydream »

Nick_A wrote: October 11th, 2022, 8:11 pm
JackDaydream wrote: October 11th, 2022, 6:22 pm The question of what is Christianity is such a large one because it would involve all the potential interpretations of the teachings of Christ, including the mainstream and esoteric ones. Christianity has been an extremely influential worldview for over 2000 years with so many diverse thinkers and interpretations. However, there are basics, such as ethics based on the teachings of Jesus, regarding love of neighbours and enemies, as well as ideals, such as not judging others. It is possible to see all the negative impacts, such as war against nonbelievers. However, the underlying basis of Christian teachings does offer a foundation for ethics, and there may be an overlap with perennial teachings, including those taught by the Buddha and other spiritual thinkers.

This is separate from ideas like life after death and the ideas about the supernatural, which may be more complex areas of philosophy, and even recognised as such by theologians. In particular, there is a split between the belief in life after death as the immortality of the soul and the belief in a resurrection at the end of the world. The metaphysical interpretations of Christian teachings may be the more complicated aspects of Christianity than the basic ethics and even amongst theologians there have been so many disagreements and the various interpretations have lead to so many separate churches and traditions. Christianity has had a widespread influence though, and the history of Western philosophy has arisen in connection with the establishment of Christendom and the conflicts between science and religion have arisen in the context of the centrality of Christianity in Western thought and civilisation.
Perhaps Christianity has two purposes. The first is external where Christianity serves as a kind of policeman concerned with the ethics of what we do. The second is concerned with what we are and our potential for conscious evolution.
The 'policeman side' of Christianity may be protective of human values but negative in the sense of leading to what Nietzsche spoke of as 'the herd morality'. On the positive side though it may have led to some kind of striving for higher values and human rights and ideals, with mixed consequences. Of course, the tensions in the world arose partly through Christianity but also many other sources of ideas, especially in the pluralism at the end of the twentieth and early twentieth first century.

As far as the idea of conscious evolution it may be that Christianity has this potential but whether people are able to see this may be variable. Somehow, when growing up some people did guide me to this possibility but that was before I became aware of some of the effects of religious fundamentalism and a negative shadow in that respect. Jung spoke of this shadow side of Christianity in his, 'Answer to Job' in which he spoke of the repressed dark side, in the human capacity for destruction. He saw the idea of the 'imitation of Christ' within history to have been based on perfectionism. He suggests that there was a more negative idea of picking up one's cross, as being one of a conformist trend within Christianity. However, he sees the genuine evolutionary path of authenticity as being following Christ as being about genuine individuation.

In that respect, it may be that the story of Jesus in the wilderness, facing temptations is symbolic of the human condition and the mystic idea of 'the dark night of the soul' may be about the existential aspects of this quest, on the brink of higher possibilities which may emerge.
heracleitos
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Re: What is Christianity? What is its purpose?

Post by heracleitos »

Nick_A wrote: October 11th, 2022, 10:42 pm
Paul in Romans 6:14 wrote:
You are not under law but under grace.
If you don't understand this, you must deny the essence of Christianity.
There are many interpretations possible but according to Murphy's law it is always the worst possible one that will start snowballing into reality.

So, it says that Christians will gracefully put themselves above the law, instead of under, while riding on a lamb that takes away their sins, which by the way do not even exist.
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Sculptor1
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Re: What is Christianity? What is its purpose?

Post by Sculptor1 »

JackDaydream wrote: October 11th, 2022, 6:22 pm The question of what is Christianity is such a large one because it would involve all the potential interpretations of the teachings of Christ, including the mainstream and esoteric ones. Christianity has been an extremely influential worldview for over 2000 years with so many diverse thinkers and interpretations. However, there are basics, such as ethics based on the teachings of Jesus, regarding love of neighbours and enemies, as well as ideals, such as not judging others. It is possible to see all the negative impacts, such as war against nonbelievers. However, the underlying basis of Christian teachings does offer a foundation for ethics, and there may be an overlap with perennial teachings, including those taught by the Buddha and other spiritual thinkers.

This is separate from ideas like life after death and the ideas about the supernatural, which may be more complex areas of philosophy, and even recognised as such by theologians. In particular, there is a split between the belief in life after death as the immortality of the soul and the belief in a resurrection at the end of the world. The metaphysical interpretations of Christian teachings may be the more complicated aspects of Christianity than the basic ethics and even amongst theologians there have been so many disagreements and the various interpretations have lead to so many separate churches and traditions. Christianity has had a widespread influence though, and the history of Western philosophy has arisen in connection with the establishment of Christendom and the conflicts between science and religion have arisen in the context of the centrality of Christianity in Western thought and civilisation.
"The teachings of Christ", do not seem to reflect many Christian practices.
In order to really understand the various purposes of the various cults under the term "Christianity" , it seems to me an almost fruitless task to go back to basics in this way. In the same way that you cannot well judge a person by his words, you must judge him by his deeds; the Christianities must be judged by their actions as they appear, not in words reported to have been spoken 2000 years ago.
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Sculptor1
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Re: What is Christianity? What is its purpose?

Post by Sculptor1 »

heracleitos wrote: October 12th, 2022, 12:26 am
Nick_A wrote: October 11th, 2022, 10:42 pm
Paul in Romans 6:14 wrote:
You are not under law but under grace.
If you don't understand this, you must deny the essence of Christianity.
There are many interpretations possible but according to Murphy's law it is always the worst possible one that will start snowballing into reality.

So, it says that Christians will gracefully put themselves above the law, instead of under, while riding on a lamb that takes away their sins, which by the way do not even exist.
True enough. But rarely is the trajectory of interpretation in this direction. The staring point is rarely the "Good Book(s)". They are more likely to be mined for nuggets which best support the bigotry and assumptions of the priest/vicar/minister. And the mining happens all too often in the OT rather than the NT.
So the starting point (USA) is the traditional middle of the road, bible belt red neck ideology; god and country; my country right or wrong; manifest destiny ad nauseum.
In the Vatican the primary motive seem to be self perpetuation and a denial of contraception and abortion to keep up the numbers and hence the power.
In a sense all churches are wider versions fo the microcosm that was David Koresh.
Nick_A
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Re: What is Christianity? What is its purpose?

Post by Nick_A »

heracleitos wrote: October 12th, 2022, 12:26 am
Nick_A wrote: October 11th, 2022, 10:42 pm
Paul in Romans 6:14 wrote:
You are not under law but under grace.
If you don't understand this, you must deny the essence of Christianity.
There are many interpretations possible but according to Murphy's law it is always the worst possible one that will start snowballing into reality.

So, it says that Christians will gracefully put themselves above the law, instead of under, while riding on a lamb that takes away their sins, which by the way do not even exist.
Since you don't know what Christianity is you prefer to fight and condemn over interpretations of man made Christendom and call it Christianity. Not everyone makes this mistake. As Kierkegaard wrote in the OP: "Christendom has done away with Christianity, without being quite aware of it. The consequence is that, if anything is to be done, one must try again to introduce Christianity into Christendom."


It would be nice to find someone on philosophy forums who has sensed the difference and offers ideas on its unique nature and purpose.
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace
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3017Metaphysician
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Re: What is Christianity? What is its purpose?

Post by 3017Metaphysician »

Sculptor1 wrote: October 11th, 2022, 4:57 pm
3017Metaphysician wrote: October 11th, 2022, 2:05 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: October 11th, 2022, 2:01 pm
3017Metaphysician wrote: October 11th, 2022, 11:30 am

According to the history book (Bible) he existed as something more than just a human preacher. A revelation of sorts...
The Bible is not a history book, and the idea of his divinity is not present in the Bible.
Are you sure?
Yes.
Have you not heard of unitarianism?

Take a look
https://21stcr.org/jesus-the-messiah-ar ... le-verses/
Traditional Christian analysis: the etymology of Jesus' name in the context of the New Testament is generally given as "Yahweh is salvation".
“Concerning matter, we have been all wrong. What we have called matter is energy, whose vibration has been so lowered as to be perceptible to the senses. There is no matter.” "Spooky Action at a Distance"
― Albert Einstein
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Sculptor1
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Re: What is Christianity? What is its purpose?

Post by Sculptor1 »

3017Metaphysician wrote: October 12th, 2022, 8:45 am
Sculptor1 wrote: October 11th, 2022, 4:57 pm
3017Metaphysician wrote: October 11th, 2022, 2:05 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: October 11th, 2022, 2:01 pm

The Bible is not a history book, and the idea of his divinity is not present in the Bible.
Are you sure?
Yes.
Have you not heard of unitarianism?

Take a look
https://21stcr.org/jesus-the-messiah-ar ... le-verses/
Traditional Christian analysis: the etymology of Jesus' name in the context of the New Testament is generally given as "Yahweh is salvation".
Jesus was just a rabbi like any other. They referred to themselves as Bar adam - so he was not the Messiah - he was just a very naughty boy
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Sculptor1
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Re: What is Christianity? What is its purpose?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Nick_A wrote: October 12th, 2022, 8:42 am
heracleitos wrote: October 12th, 2022, 12:26 am
Nick_A wrote: October 11th, 2022, 10:42 pm
Paul in Romans 6:14 wrote:
You are not under law but under grace.
If you don't understand this, you must deny the essence of Christianity.
There are many interpretations possible but according to Murphy's law it is always the worst possible one that will start snowballing into reality.

So, it says that Christians will gracefully put themselves above the law, instead of under, while riding on a lamb that takes away their sins, which by the way do not even exist.
Since you don't know what Christianity is you prefer to fight and condemn over interpretations of man made Christendom and call it Christianity. Not everyone makes this mistake. As Kierkegaard wrote in the OP: "Christendom has done away with Christianity, without being quite aware of it. The consequence is that, if anything is to be done, one must try again to introduce Christianity into Christendom."


It would be nice to find someone on philosophy forums who has sensed the difference and offers ideas on its unique nature and purpose.
That's all very well, but no one seems to know what Christianity is.
Kierkegaard might have thought that his version of christianity had been abandoned, but they all say that whom Christendom does not seem to serve, whilst others are happy with the power to apply their own version.
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3017Metaphysician
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Re: What is Christianity? What is its purpose?

Post by 3017Metaphysician »

Sculptor1 wrote: October 12th, 2022, 11:44 am
3017Metaphysician wrote: October 12th, 2022, 8:45 am
Sculptor1 wrote: October 11th, 2022, 4:57 pm
3017Metaphysician wrote: October 11th, 2022, 2:05 pm

Are you sure?
Yes.
Have you not heard of unitarianism?

Take a look
https://21stcr.org/jesus-the-messiah-ar ... le-verses/
Traditional Christian analysis: the etymology of Jesus' name in the context of the New Testament is generally given as "Yahweh is salvation".
Jesus was just a rabbi like any other. They referred to themselves as Bar adam - so he was not the Messiah - he was just a very naughty boy
....only to the unenlightened. You know, much like yourself. :shock:
“Concerning matter, we have been all wrong. What we have called matter is energy, whose vibration has been so lowered as to be perceptible to the senses. There is no matter.” "Spooky Action at a Distance"
― Albert Einstein
Nick_A
Posts: 3364
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Re: What is Christianity? What is its purpose?

Post by Nick_A »

Sculptor1 wrote: October 12th, 2022, 11:47 am
Nick_A wrote: October 12th, 2022, 8:42 am
heracleitos wrote: October 12th, 2022, 12:26 am
Nick_A wrote: October 11th, 2022, 10:42 pm
If you don't understand this, you must deny the essence of Christianity.
There are many interpretations possible but according to Murphy's law it is always the worst possible one that will start snowballing into reality.

So, it says that Christians will gracefully put themselves above the law, instead of under, while riding on a lamb that takes away their sins, which by the way do not even exist.
Since you don't know what Christianity is you prefer to fight and condemn over interpretations of man made Christendom and call it Christianity. Not everyone makes this mistake. As Kierkegaard wrote in the OP: "Christendom has done away with Christianity, without being quite aware of it. The consequence is that, if anything is to be done, one must try again to introduce Christianity into Christendom."


It would be nice to find someone on philosophy forums who has sensed the difference and offers ideas on its unique nature and purpose.
That's all very well, but no one seems to know what Christianity is.
Kierkegaard might have thought that his version of christianity had been abandoned, but they all say that whom Christendom does not seem to serve, whilst others are happy with the power to apply their own version.
Thou shalt not kill is Christendom. Thou shalt not murder in thy heart is Christianity. Can you see the significance of these two teachings?
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace
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Sculptor1
Posts: 7148
Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: What is Christianity? What is its purpose?

Post by Sculptor1 »

3017Metaphysician wrote: October 12th, 2022, 11:50 am
Sculptor1 wrote: October 12th, 2022, 11:44 am
3017Metaphysician wrote: October 12th, 2022, 8:45 am
Sculptor1 wrote: October 11th, 2022, 4:57 pm

Yes.
Have you not heard of unitarianism?

Take a look
https://21stcr.org/jesus-the-messiah-ar ... le-verses/
Traditional Christian analysis: the etymology of Jesus' name in the context of the New Testament is generally given as "Yahweh is salvation".
Jesus was just a rabbi like any other. They referred to themselves as Bar adam - so he was not the Messiah - he was just a very naughty boy
....only to the unenlightened. You know, much like yourself. :shock:
You are ust showing your extreme bigotry and ignorance.
I'm going to place Sir Isaac Newton above you in the hierarchy of ignorance.
ALso
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Sylvia Plath
Samuel Taylor Coleridge
Mary Woolstoncraft
John Adams
J Q Adams

etc..............
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Sculptor1
Posts: 7148
Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: What is Christianity? What is its purpose?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Nick_A wrote: October 12th, 2022, 12:27 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: October 12th, 2022, 11:47 am
Nick_A wrote: October 12th, 2022, 8:42 am
heracleitos wrote: October 12th, 2022, 12:26 am
There are many interpretations possible but according to Murphy's law it is always the worst possible one that will start snowballing into reality.

So, it says that Christians will gracefully put themselves above the law, instead of under, while riding on a lamb that takes away their sins, which by the way do not even exist.
Since you don't know what Christianity is you prefer to fight and condemn over interpretations of man made Christendom and call it Christianity. Not everyone makes this mistake. As Kierkegaard wrote in the OP: "Christendom has done away with Christianity, without being quite aware of it. The consequence is that, if anything is to be done, one must try again to introduce Christianity into Christendom."


It would be nice to find someone on philosophy forums who has sensed the difference and offers ideas on its unique nature and purpose.
That's all very well, but no one seems to know what Christianity is.
Kierkegaard might have thought that his version of christianity had been abandoned, but they all say that whom Christendom does not seem to serve, whilst others are happy with the power to apply their own version.
Thou shalt not kill is Christendom. Thou shalt not murder in thy heart is Christianity. Can you see the significance of these two teachings?
I can see you peddling nonsense.
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3017Metaphysician
Posts: 1621
Joined: July 9th, 2021, 8:59 am

Re: What is Christianity? What is its purpose?

Post by 3017Metaphysician »

Sculptor1 wrote: October 12th, 2022, 1:54 pm
3017Metaphysician wrote: October 12th, 2022, 11:50 am
Sculptor1 wrote: October 12th, 2022, 11:44 am
3017Metaphysician wrote: October 12th, 2022, 8:45 am

Traditional Christian analysis: the etymology of Jesus' name in the context of the New Testament is generally given as "Yahweh is salvation".
Jesus was just a rabbi like any other. They referred to themselves as Bar adam - so he was not the Messiah - he was just a very naughty boy
....only to the unenlightened. You know, much like yourself. :shock:
You are ust showing your extreme bigotry and ignorance.
I'm going to place Sir Isaac Newton above you in the hierarchy of ignorance.
ALso
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Sylvia Plath
Samuel Taylor Coleridge
Mary Woolstoncraft
John Adams
J Q Adams

etc..............
Are you suggesting Sir Issaac Newton was ignorant? Are you sure?

Say it isn't so!!!
“Concerning matter, we have been all wrong. What we have called matter is energy, whose vibration has been so lowered as to be perceptible to the senses. There is no matter.” "Spooky Action at a Distance"
― Albert Einstein
Nick_A
Posts: 3364
Joined: April 19th, 2009, 11:45 pm

Re: What is Christianity? What is its purpose?

Post by Nick_A »

Sculptor1 wrote: October 12th, 2022, 1:55 pm
Nick_A wrote: October 12th, 2022, 12:27 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: October 12th, 2022, 11:47 am
Nick_A wrote: October 12th, 2022, 8:42 am

Since you don't know what Christianity is you prefer to fight and condemn over interpretations of man made Christendom and call it Christianity. Not everyone makes this mistake. As Kierkegaard wrote in the OP: "Christendom has done away with Christianity, without being quite aware of it. The consequence is that, if anything is to be done, one must try again to introduce Christianity into Christendom."


It would be nice to find someone on philosophy forums who has sensed the difference and offers ideas on its unique nature and purpose.
That's all very well, but no one seems to know what Christianity is.
Kierkegaard might have thought that his version of christianity had been abandoned, but they all say that whom Christendom does not seem to serve, whilst others are happy with the power to apply their own version.
Thou shalt not kill is Christendom. Thou shalt not murder in thy heart is Christianity. Can you see the significance of these two teachings?
I can see you peddling nonsense.
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.” ― Albert Einstein


I hate to say what you are peddling
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace
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