Pascal's Wager Argument

[Dlaw]

We start with a belief in God, and then try to make sense of everything else through that God.

Matthew 10:32-33
"Everyone who acknowledges me before others I will acknowledge before my heavenly Father. But whoever denies me before others, I will deny before my heavenly father."

You forgot to mention that both salvation and damnation are offered.

I THINK the problem is that you're a very religious Christian and you can't really look at God objectively. Neither could Pascal. It was culturally and personally impossible. Again, it was rock, paper, scissors with him holding a real rock. It's not an objectively valid test of the question.

Of course that's not the point of belief in God. It's supposed to be an emotional experience that excites and inspires our thinking. I love the book of Matthew. I find it very inspiring - always have, always will. It exists inside my emotional and conscious life.

I'll ask again for the last time. Are you infallibly certain there is no God? Yes or no will suffice.

If you read my article here, you will find that a yes answer will set you at odds with many great thinkers. Perhaps you will have enough respect for them to consider their points of view.

If you're asking about human society, obviously there is a God. If you're asking if the idea of God corresponds to something in the external, physical Universe then obviously not - but I don't really see why it's a necessary or valid question, really.

Apologetics are invariably tendentious. They assert facts not in evidence and then compound the problem by mistaking Scripture for fact - even when the Scripture is not written as fact. They ignore the absurdity of Noah's Ark but insist that the Bible in general is a rock-solid description of the Universe.

[Charlemagne]

We start with a belief in God, and then try to make sense of everything else through that God.

Matthew 10:32-33
"Everyone who acknowledges me before others I will acknowledge before my heavenly Father. But whoever denies me before others, I will deny before my heavenly father."

You forgot to mention that both salvation and damnation are offered.

I THINK the problem is that you're a very religious Christian and you can't really look at God objectively. Neither could Pascal. It was culturally and personally impossible. Again, it was rock, paper, scissors with him holding a real rock. It's not an objectively valid test of the question.

Of course that's not the point of belief in God. It's supposed to be an emotional experience that excites and inspires our thinking. I love the book of Matthew. I find it very inspiring - always have, always will. It exists inside my emotional and conscious life.

I'll ask again for the last time. Are you infallibly certain there is no God? Yes or no will suffice.

If you read my article here, you will find that a yes answer will set you at odds with many great thinkers. Perhaps you will have enough respect for them to consider their points of view.

If you're asking about human society, obviously there is a God. If you're asking if the idea of God corresponds to something in the external, physical Universe then obviously not - but I don't really see why it's a necessary or valid question, really.

Apologetics are invariably tendentious. They assert facts not in evidence and then compound the problem by mistaking Scripture for fact - even when the Scripture is not written as fact. They ignore the absurdity of Noah's Ark but insist that the Bible in general is a rock-solid description of the Universe.

The discovery of the Big Bang was anticipated in metaphor by God' saying "Let there be Light." As atheist Carl Sagan noted, the early universe after the Big Bang was filled with light. The process of creation in metaphors was described first by the creation of the heavenly bodies, followed by the creation of life in the sea, followed by life in the air, followed by animals, and finally followed by the appearance of humans. This is a rough approximation of the modern theory of evolution.

The Bible got there before modern science.

[Count Lucanor]

We start with a belief in God, and then try to make sense of everything else through that God.

Matthew 10:32-33
"Everyone who acknowledges me before others I will acknowledge before my heavenly Father. But whoever denies me before others, I will deny before my heavenly father."

You forgot to mention that both salvation and damnation are offered.

I THINK the problem is that you're a very religious Christian and you can't really look at God objectively. Neither could Pascal. It was culturally and personally impossible. Again, it was rock, paper, scissors with him holding a real rock. It's not an objectively valid test of the question.

Of course that's not the point of belief in God. It's supposed to be an emotional experience that excites and inspires our thinking. I love the book of Matthew. I find it very inspiring - always have, always will. It exists inside my emotional and conscious life.

I'll ask again for the last time. Are you infallibly certain there is no God? Yes or no will suffice.

If you read my article here, you will find that a yes answer will set you at odds with many great thinkers. Perhaps you will have enough respect for them to consider their points of view.

If you're asking about human society, obviously there is a God. If you're asking if the idea of God corresponds to something in the external, physical Universe then obviously not - but I don't really see why it's a necessary or valid question, really.

Apologetics are invariably tendentious. They assert facts not in evidence and then compound the problem by mistaking Scripture for fact - even when the Scripture is not written as fact. They ignore the absurdity of Noah's Ark but insist that the Bible in general is a rock-solid description of the Universe.

The discovery of the Big Bang was anticipated in metaphor by God' saying "Let there be Light." As atheist Carl Sagan noted, the early universe after the Big Bang was filled with light. The process of creation in metaphors was described first by the creation of the heavenly bodies, followed by the creation of life in the sea, followed by life in the air, followed by animals, and finally followed by the appearance of humans. This is a rough approximation of the modern theory of evolution.

The Bible got there before modern science.

Since the goat herders that made up the stories of the Bible were not very rigorous in that task, it all depends on which creation story you want to believe:

• And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. Genesis 2:18-19

[Moreno]

I'll ask again for the last time. Are you infallibly certain there is no God? Yes or no will suffice.

As I said in the post I responded to and which you quoted, I am a theist, so this question makes no sense. You made no effort to respond to any point I made, nor it seems did you even read it closely. Then you bring up the issue of respect. Respect is a good issue.

If you read my article here, you will find that a yes answer will set you at odds with many great thinkers. Perhaps you will have enough respect for them to consider their points of view.

[Charlemagne]

I'll ask again for the last time. Are you infallibly certain there is no God? Yes or no will suffice.

As I said in the post I responded to and which you quoted, I am a theist, so this question makes no sense. You made no effort to respond to any point I made, nor it seems did you even read it closely. Then you bring up the issue of respect. Respect is a good issue.

If you read my article here, you will find that a yes answer will set you at odds with many great thinkers. Perhaps you will have enough respect for them to consider their points of view.

Moreno,

Sorry about that. I evidently confused you with another poster. Please accept the apology.
At my age, confusion is as certain as death and taxes.

[Moreno]

I'll ask again for the last time. Are you infallibly certain there is no God? Yes or no will suffice.

As I said in the post I responded to and which you quoted, I am a theist, so this question makes no sense. You made no effort to respond to any point I made, nor it seems did you even read it closely. Then you bring up the issue of respect. Respect is a good issue.

If you read my article here, you will find that a yes answer will set you at odds with many great thinkers. Perhaps you will have enough respect for them to consider their points of view.

Moreno,

Sorry about that. I evidently confused you with another poster. Please accept the apology.
At my age, confusion is as certain as death and taxes.

No worries. And at my age too.

[Dlaw]

And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. Genesis 2:18-19[/list]

[/i]
[/quote]

The Lord God also said this:

23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Ok, got that one backwards.

[Charlemagne]

And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. Genesis 2:18-19[/list]

[/i]

The Lord God also said this:

23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Ok, got that one backwards.
[/quote]






Last time I heard, the male sperm decides the sex of the offspring.

[Charlemagne]

And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. Genesis 2:18-19[/list]

[/i]

The Lord God also said this:

23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Ok, got that one backwards.

Last time I heard, the male sperm decides the sex of the offspring.
[/quote]

[Count Lucanor]

Yeah, the last time I heard Santa Claus used to wear a red outfit. Look, Santa is in a store, he's wearing red, he's real.

[3017Metaphysician]

Yeah, the last time I heard Santa Claus used to wear a red outfit. Look, Santa is in a store, he's wearing red, he's real.

What outfit did Jesus wear?

[Dlaw]

And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. Genesis 2:18-19[/list]

[/i]

The Lord God also said this:

23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Ok, got that one backwards.

Last time I heard, the male sperm decides the sex of the offspring.
[/quote]

The egg is 10 million times the size of the sperm. The sex with the bit removed to create it is the male. Evolutionarily, all life starts female.

[Sy Borg]

If the main Middle Eastern Iron Age deity exists, and is as easily duped as a young child, then Pascal's wager could be a winner.

[Charlemagne]

And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. Genesis 2:18-19[/list]

[/i]

The Lord God also said this:

23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Ok, got that one backwards.

Last time I heard, the male sperm decides the sex of the offspring.

The egg is 10 million times the size of the sperm. The sex with the bit removed to create it is the male. Evolutionarily, all life starts female.
[/quote]

But all life (including the female) cannot get off the ground without the male.