The March Philosophy Book of the Month is Final Notice by Van Fleisher. Discuss Final Notice now.

The April Philosophy Book of the Month is The Unbound Soul by Richard L. Haight. Discuss The Unbound Soul Now

The May Philosophy Book of the Month is Misreading Judas by Robert Wahler.

Is God to be feared?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
Post Reply
boagie
Posts: 1023
Joined: October 13th, 2008, 7:50 am

Post by boagie » August 17th, 2009, 10:42 pm

Can't say it on air---just love you to pieces!!

"When fascism comes to America it will come wrapped in a flag and carrying a bible."

User avatar
Juice
Posts: 1997
Joined: May 8th, 2009, 10:24 pm

Post by Juice » August 17th, 2009, 10:50 pm

I reiterate that throughout the history of man, man has had ideas and visions of God or Gods which are divined to be fearful or not, helpful or not, weak or not and so forth.

The OP contained two quotes, one from the Christian Bible and one from the Qur'an. So, and please correct if I am wrong, the OP was directed to contemplation of a monotheistic God to be feared or not according to what responders wished to debate from knowledge or experience of those two major world religions.

From my experience and according to the teachings of Jesus Christ there should be contemplation that love between man and God is reciprocal and as such a Christian who loves God only fears not loving God and what not loving God can entail for that individual in the after life the Christian idea of God or the Islamic idea of God portends.
When everyone looks to better their own future then the future will be better for everyone.

An explanation of cause is not a justification by reason.
C. S. Lewis

Fight the illusion!

ape
Posts: 3323
Joined: April 6th, 2009, 9:55 pm

Post by ape » August 17th, 2009, 11:04 pm

boagie wrote:God is a psychological condition, god is an idea, and as such he is fair game. If you people do not want to tolerate descent keep it in church. Its a pain in the ass to deal with people who believe they should not be questioned at a philosophy site.
Sure, God is fair game but with the Fairness of Love and Respect, lad!
We not only tolerate dissent but we also welcome it!
We also welcome Hate & Disrespect which we will oppose with Love and Respect for ourselves and you as all the names you call us: moron, dangerous, absurd, killers, mindless, and pains in the ass, and etc.
See Boagie, it takes a moron to know one!
I love me as a moron and so accept your nomenclature as a moron!
And do you know how I know you are right that I am a moron?
It takes one to know one!:)
And I think you are wise!:)
Love and R for pains in the ass like me and so like you even makes sham pains out of pains and even champagne!:)
And you can question all you want with Hate and Disrespect---we can answer back and question back with Love and R!
If you can't take it, don't start to dish it!
So before you dish, love and respect who and what you dish, because it's coming right back at ya with 100% Love and Respect!:)
I love you, man!
Heya, I love Bogey as in Humphrey too!:)

ape
Posts: 3323
Joined: April 6th, 2009, 9:55 pm

Post by ape » August 17th, 2009, 11:13 pm

boagie wrote:Can't say it on air---just love you to pieces!!
Now you're talking!:)
As when you said your first word as a baby, as you continue to say it, you will mean 'I love you'!:)
To love some one, you have to love each piece of them!
So to love yourself, Boagie, you have to break you down ontologically in to every word-piece and love all those pieces.
Proverbs 18:
24A man that hath friends must shew himself friendly [must love himself to pieces!]:
and there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother.
boagie wrote: "When fascism comes to America it will come wrapped in a flag and carrying a bible."
Right, but say it this way:
When Fascism came to America, it came wrapped in the Flag of Hate for all other nations, and misusing the Bible to do so!
Fascism is Love of self out of Hate for all others.
That is why the nazi party was NAtional SOcialist: NAZI: out of Hate for all other nations: Germany UBER ALLES in Hate of those UNDER Germany!

So for you to diss or hate others is to be bringing Fascism to wherever you live AGAIN!

But that's old hat!

You now love me to pieces.
And to do so, you must FIRST love you to pieces!
So please say that again!:)
But say it this way:
I love ME to pieces!
I love MYSELF to pieces!
I Boagie LOVE Boagie to pieces!
I Boagie love every piece of Boagie!
I Boagie love all the pieces of Boagie!

User avatar
Juice
Posts: 1997
Joined: May 8th, 2009, 10:24 pm

Post by Juice » August 17th, 2009, 11:23 pm

No God is is not fair game, but the idea of God or the Psychology of God is.

I do not fear the idea of God or the psychology of God, But I do fear not loving God. As such one should fear not loving man as man is the idea of God, and man is blessed with psychology which allows for love or not to love.

Fear is a response to threat or danger. If man is born or develops a fear of death and "religion" is then a response to that fear which intern helps to relieve that fear by the promise of an after life then any level of compassion a normal person can develop for another should be seen as a help to relive that fear.

Would it be compassionate to remove God which may then cause more fear in society? Those who do not fear death as a result in a belief in God can be seen as a defense mechanism against fear of death. So a belief in God should be strengthened and advocated as an act of compassion. Unless compassion is also derived from a belief in God which would then allow for the compassion of self.

Didn't Jesus sacrifice himself for just that reason?

Jesus must have been a psychologist. So there! Proof that the iron age religion did contribute something modern.
When everyone looks to better their own future then the future will be better for everyone.

An explanation of cause is not a justification by reason.
C. S. Lewis

Fight the illusion!

boagie
Posts: 1023
Joined: October 13th, 2008, 7:50 am

Post by boagie » August 18th, 2009, 12:25 am

Ape,

God as love I can deal with, but not this supernatural figure of the bible. I sit out sometimes on the porch in the evening and solve the problems of the world with whatever neighbour comes by. They can speak most sensiably on many topics, but when they reveal themselves as believers is when they start babbling about these absurd beliefs. Under any other circumstance other than the cover of religion this would be considered insane.

I am baffled at a man with university education, sensible in most every respect, believes slavery is moral as long as the slaves are black because the bible says so. This man reveals he believes in the devil, not a metaphor for evil but the real thing------is this not insane? It is an adopted alternetive reality I am thinking. When I sit beside someone listening to them babbling about these biblical beliefs and miracles I truely feel like swatting them in the head. I suddenly feel like I am in some institution somewhere.

No I do not suppose anyone would care what another individual believed if that belief system did not effect him. Unfortunately these religious systems tend to be very political and quite simply I do not want anyone in power who has relinquished his individual power of reason to religion--think the end times. Actually for most of my life I was unconcerned with such matters. It was a shock to me that people believed as they did. I thought these beliefs belonged to another age. It was a depressing realization that this was not the case. Devils, demons, witches, warlocks and mentally unstable gods, they are all still with us.
Last edited by boagie on August 18th, 2009, 1:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Juice
Posts: 1997
Joined: May 8th, 2009, 10:24 pm

Post by Juice » August 18th, 2009, 12:58 am

boagie-Since this is a very big topic for you may I suggest that you get your own Bible so that when some pretend educated idiot says something idiotic and attributes that belief to the Bible in an attempt to give legitimacy to such an insane idea then you can shut him up with the truth.

Why don't you come to my church so that you can spend the whole day "swatting" people in the head. I'll even let you start with me. After you're done you can go from church to church, synagogue, temple, mosque and all that "swatting" people in the head. Maybe you can make that your life's work. That way we can see who becomes "insane" and gets locked in an insane asylum as a result.

I'll even let you smack me twice so you can get a real good start at Arkum.
Last edited by Juice on August 18th, 2009, 1:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
When everyone looks to better their own future then the future will be better for everyone.

An explanation of cause is not a justification by reason.
C. S. Lewis

Fight the illusion!

boagie
Posts: 1023
Joined: October 13th, 2008, 7:50 am

Post by boagie » August 18th, 2009, 1:06 am

Juice,

If the majority are crazy they just redefine crazy. Actually if you know your bible so well you should know that it does support slavery. It just tells you not to beat your slaves so badly that you might blind or cripple them, were there ever kinder Christians. Historically slavery in the white world was Christian slavery----the good book was there all the way, assuring Christians of there natural superority.

SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS

User avatar
Juice
Posts: 1997
Joined: May 8th, 2009, 10:24 pm

Post by Juice » August 18th, 2009, 1:22 am

boagie-Ah, so you do know something and as such know that the Bible makes no mention that slaves should be black.

While you are correct that the Old Testament does mention slavery and the treatment of slaves at the time it was written slavery meant a much different thing than the modern version.

Besides the New Testament thoroughly condemns salve traders.
Timothy 1
8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that lawa is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.
Those who called themselves Christians and held slaves were not Christians.

I am the direct descendant of slaves.

Slavery has been around since the dawn of man and since today it is a thoroughly condemned practice except for some third world countries.
When everyone looks to better their own future then the future will be better for everyone.

An explanation of cause is not a justification by reason.
C. S. Lewis

Fight the illusion!

boagie
Posts: 1023
Joined: October 13th, 2008, 7:50 am

Post by boagie » August 18th, 2009, 1:48 am

Those things mentioned are just a few of the dated embrassments of Christiandom through time. It was a tougher cruelier time of it, humanitarnism was only a flickering flame at the time. The bible is also for the subjugation of women, another inconvenience for the modern Christians. Only a believer cannot see the problem here, its an operating manual for a two thousand year old society/system.

User avatar
Juice
Posts: 1997
Joined: May 8th, 2009, 10:24 pm

Post by Juice » August 18th, 2009, 2:05 am

boagie-Once again the Old Testament was written at a time when the customs and laws of men concerning woman was quite universal nothing surprising there.

You could pretty much call Christ the first womens rights advocate or "womens libber". And Jesus was the first humanitarian.

As a matter of fact when some of the first marriage laws were written by the Romans they took those considerations directly from the New Testament and the teachings of Jesus which hold up even today.

Man the more I talk to you the more good it does my heart to know Jesus.
When everyone looks to better their own future then the future will be better for everyone.

An explanation of cause is not a justification by reason.
C. S. Lewis

Fight the illusion!

boagie
Posts: 1023
Joined: October 13th, 2008, 7:50 am

Post by boagie » August 18th, 2009, 8:21 am

Juice"]boagie-Once again the Old Testament was written at a time when the customs and laws of men concerning woman was quite universal nothing surprising there."

No laws and customs of men concerning woman were not universal, all the people of the bible lived in a little three layer cake not even knowing that rest of the world existed, seems god forgot to mention it also.

"You could pretty much call Christ the first womens rights advocate or "womens libber". And Jesus was the first humanitarian."

If you say so---lol!!

"As a matter of fact when some of the first marriage laws were written by the Romans they took those considerations directly from the New Testament and the teachings of Jesus which hold up even today."

I am not going to spend a great deal of time learning every detail of the bible in order to disbute the major absurdities it presents as fact. It is simply mindlessly outrageous. People of our time period should be embrassed by such dribble. If you want a real wisdom text I suggest Hindu scriptures and/or Budhhist writings they far surpass the wisdom of the bible.

Man the more I talk to you the more good it does my heart to know Jesus.[/quote]

DEFINE KNOW!

Belinda
Contributor
Posts: 13760
Joined: July 10th, 2008, 7:02 pm
Location: UK

Post by Belinda » August 18th, 2009, 9:00 am

Why is the original question asked in passive voice?
Why not ask 'do you fear God?'

Or why not give your reasons for fearing God, and be done with it?

ape
Posts: 3323
Joined: April 6th, 2009, 9:55 pm

Post by ape » August 18th, 2009, 9:02 am

[quote="boagie"]Ape,
God as love I can deal with,...
ape: Xlnt, Boagie!:) And Love as God is how the Bible or any other Holy Book or any other book is to be read: with Love for who God loves: every word and its enemy-opposite, which covers every person alive and who has ever lived.See? This auto-means that the first mistake in thinking is to hate or disrespect any word or so person or so place or so thing.
So when you hear of anyone saying that the God of the Bible or any religion hates or disrespects anyone, you KNOW that that person does NOT love every word and its opposite, and so has misread who God is and what God is all about. Then you can come back with Love & Respect and show them that their sin is Hate & Disrespect for who God loves: everyone!
BOAGIE: ...but not this supernatural figure of the bible.
APE: That is ok as long as you LOVE and RESPECT natural AND supernatural figures! See? It goes for every word! It is that very L & R that IS THE supernatural thing that makes God as natural supernatural, and makes all men as natural supernatural!
BOAGIE:I sit out sometimes on the porch in the evening and solve the problems of the world with whatever neighbour comes by.
APE: Great!:)
BOAGIE: They can speak most sensiably on many topics, but when they reveal themselves as believers is when they start babbling about these absurd beliefs.
APE: That's fine that you look at them as such! But do you LOVE & RESPECT yourself as nonsensical and as babblers and as absurd is the key question! If you do love and respect you as an absurd and nonsensical babbler, then you can really help them by showing them that God loves you as a nonbeliever--show them Matthew 5:43-48--and that therefore their real absurdity and nonsensicality and babble is their sin of HATE & DISRESPECT for themselves and you as such! See?
BOAGIE: Under any other circumstance other than the cover of religion this would be considered insane.
APE: The first insanity is to DISRESPECT OR HATE myself as insane! Do you see why? When I hate myself as insane and you call me insane, I will DENY that I am insane and invalidate your claim; I will then call you insane and so FORGET that it takes one to know one; and then I will try to get you who are insane to me to validate ME as SANE! Now that is insanity: How can I get an insane man to validate my sanity? Therefore, H&D of myself as insane is the FIRST insanity in any area of endeavor: religion, science, atheism, theism, etc!sigh See? So L&R of me as sane and insane is the FIRST sanity: I admit that I am sane when you call me insane so that I an insane man is agreeing with you a sane man that I am insane: that makes me sane, and vice versa makes you also insane. Thus the real sanity is L&R for self as all words and opposites, and the real insanity is any H&D for self as any word in any and all areas of thought and speech and deed.qed.
BOAGIE: I am baffled at a man with university education, sensible in most every respect, believes slavery is moral as long as the slaves are black because the bible says so.
APE: So it is clear that that man does not realise that as HIS OWN MASTER, HE HIMSELF IS HIS VERY FIRST OWN SLAVE! And he does not recognise that, he is blind and deaf to that simply because he disrespects and hates himself as a slave. And all you have to do is ask him: Do you love and respect yourself as a slave or slavemaster or masterslave? But first, you have to ask yourself: Do I Boagie love and respect myself as my own first slave, my own first slavemaster and my very first own masterslave? See? Then it will dawn on you that once again, Hate is the real BAD slave and master, and Love is the real GOOD slave and master since we are all masters and slaves...already!
BOAGIE:This man reveals he believes in the devil, not a metaphor for evil but the real thing------is this not insane?
APE: Once again, his belief is insane only if he hates and disrespects the devil, whether real or imaginary--just as he loves mickey mouse as imaginary--especially since his own God commands him to love the devil as real or as imaginary! See Matthew 5:43-48 again, and 1 Peter 5:8-9.
BOAGIE: It is an adopted alternetive reality I am thinking.
APE: Great!:) That Adopted Alternative Reality is Love for all words and their opposites in your Inner Reality so you can make perfect sense of both Inner and Outer Reality. As adopted, it is really loved and respected!:)
BOAGIE: When I sit beside someone listening to them babbling about these biblical beliefs and miracles I truely feel like swatting them in the head. I suddenly feel like I am in some institution somewhere.
APE: Hmmmm To disrespect or hate anyone is already to BE in the Institution of H&D! To love and respect all is to already BE in the Institution of L&R!
"'I experienced a miracle ... as a child of 4 or 5 when my father showed me a compass."
It excited the boy so such that 'he trembled and grew cold.'
"There had to be something behind objects that lay deeply hidden...the development of our world of thought is in a certain sense a flight away from the miraculous.' Such private experiences contributed far more to Einstein's growth than formal schooling."
Albert Einstein in Subtle is The Lord, p. 37, by Abraham Pais.
"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
A. Einstein
BOAGIE: No I do not suppose anyone would care what another individual believed if that belief system did not effect him. Unfortunately these religious systems tend to be very political and quite simply I do not want anyone in power who has relinquished his individual power of reason to religion--think the end times.
APE: You MUST mean who has surrendered his power of reason to the religion of Hate and Disrespect for self and others as self--since to have NO religion is still to have the religion of NO Religion! See?
End times is the time when the fight between Love and Hate finally ends---for now!
Matthew 24: 3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
8All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake
10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
12And because iniquity shall abound, the Love of many shall wax cold [and the Hate of many shall wax hot].
BOAGIE: Actually for most of my life I was unconcerned with such matters. It was a shock to me that people believed as they did. I thought these beliefs belonged to another age. It was a depressing realization that this was not the case. Devils, demons, witches, warlocks and mentally unstable gods, they are all still with us.
APE: What they believe in is NOT the problem just as how what you believe is NOT the problem: the problem is the Problem Attitude or the Attitude Problem or the Unstable Mental Attitude or the Mentally Unstable Attitude of Hate and Disrespect for any words such as depression, devil, demons, witches, warlocks, mentally unstable gods, or any other words or their opposites. To hate any real or imagined devil as an adversary or enemy or opposites is to hate God as your adversary, the same natural God as Love, that you love, and who loves himself as both ally and adversary, as nat and supernat.
Exodus 23: 22But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.
We've come full circle!:)
Sincerely hope that helps you, Boagie, to help yourself and to help others like your university educated friend et alia there and here!:)
Please ask any more questions and or make any comments.

boagie
Posts: 1023
Joined: October 13th, 2008, 7:50 am

Post by boagie » August 18th, 2009, 10:11 am

Ape,

Well, you certainly have it down to a masterful system, and I take it your in the business. It seems you would silence the unbeliever but not the believer, though this is very impressive in its verbose workings I think it unfair and unrealistic. To say that I am hateful and disrespectful when I see no reason on the face of the earth to believe in the supernatural and with no evidence at their side believers think their proclamations about the supernatural should be respected, it is laughable.

I understand such beliefs for those who can manage them are comforting but that does not make them true. I find it amusing as well in most situtations with friends who cannot explain the why of their belief, they have great resistence and fear to it's examination. I guess they do not have many moderators at this forum. I personally think you did lose it making personal attacks, but appearantly there is no one in the forest to hear the tree fall or perhaps its just delay because they are busy. You are very good at what you do, but if like you that was my only focus I probably would be your match.



"There was no place in the land where the seeker could not find some small budding sign of pity for the slave. No place in all the land but one-- the pulpit. It yielded last; it always does. It fought a strong and stubborn fight, and then did what it always does, joined the procession-- at the tail end. Slavery fell. The slavery texts in the Bible remained; the practice changed; that was all."

Mark Twain
Last edited by boagie on August 28th, 2009, 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply