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The May Philosophy Book of the Month is Misreading Judas by Robert Wahler.

Is God to be feared?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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ape
Posts: 3323
Joined: April 6th, 2009, 9:55 pm

Post by ape » August 31st, 2009, 8:55 pm

Rasheed Babatunde wrote:Ape,

A rival does not necessarily means an enemy. A rival can be a friend, a competitor, a colleague or even an admirer.
That God or Allah or Yahweh does not want a rival do not mean He would take as enemy His creatures that rivals Him.
That God does not want a rival means He does not want us to equate, worship or love anything as god other than Him.
He is the one and the only God, unequalled in any area or form.

"Say: He is Allah, the One and Only, Allah the Eternal, Absolute. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten, and there is none like unto Him." Qur'an 112:1-4.

"The first is, Hear O Isreal; The Lord our God, the Lord is one,..." Mark 12:29.
RB!
I totally agree!:)
But I wd say it this way:
A rival does not necessarily mean an enemy. A rival can also be a friend, a competitor, a colleague or even an admirer.
That God or Allah or Yahweh does not want a rival does not mean He would hate any of His creatures that rivals Him, since he loves both enemies & friends.
That God does not want a rival means He does not want us to equate, worship or love anything as god other than Him and to always put Him first by obeying His command to love Him as everything and to love everything as Him by loving ourselves as everything so we can love Him back as everything and as ourselves.
He is the one and the only God, unequalled in any area or form when we put Him first and unequalled by always putting first what Love He says to put first.
Example:
We put Allah or God first and unequalled when we put first Love for ourselves as Christians & Muslims so we can love Muslims as Christians and love Xtians as Muslims, and so that we can love Allah as God and God as Allah, and love God as Muslim and any Muslim as God!

"I have seen the Noble King with a face of Glory:
He Who is the companion and healer of all beings;
He who is the Soul and the Universe that births Souls;
He who bestows Wisdom on Wisdom, Purity on Purity;
He who is the prayer-mat of the Soul of Saints!
Each atom of my body cries out separately:
"Glory be to God!
If you are seeking, seek US with Joy, for we live in the Kingdom of Joy.
Do not give your heart to anything else
But to the Love of those who are clear Joy
.
Do not stray into the neighborhood of despair
For there are hopes: they are real, they exist!
Do not go in the direction of darkness -
I tell you, Suns exist!
Love's Creed is separate from all religions.
The Creed and Denomination of Lovers is God.

One day, you will find yourself outside this world
Which is similar to the Maternal Womb.
You will leave this earth to enter, while you
Are yet in the body, a vast expanse, knowing
That the words, "God's earth is vast"
designate this region from which the Saints have come.
A human being must be born TWICE. Once from
his mother and again from his own body
and his own existence.
The body is like an egg, and
The essence of man must become a bird in that egg
Through the warmth of Love,
And then he can escape from his body and fly
In the Eternal World of the Soul
Beyond Time and Space.
Multiplicity exists in the separate grapes,
But it cannot be found in the juice that comes from the grape!
Look at Me! I am your companion in the tomb.
On that night you leave our shop and your house,
You hear my salutation in the tomb,
And you will know that never EVER
Were you hidden from My eyes.
I am that spark of Intelligence and Reason in your breast:
At the moment of Pleasure, at the moment of Joy,
At the moment of Suffering, at the moment of Misery.

And on that strange Night when you hear
the Voice of the Beloved,
You will soar free of the bite of the serpent
And the Terror of ants.
The drunkenness of Love will carry into your Tomb
These Gifts.
Know that your life throws a veil over your path.
Our life is constantly tempting us to define ourselves with it[Love]
."
Rumi. Sufi Muslim Philosopher.

Rasheed Babatunde
Posts: 60
Joined: May 26th, 2009, 12:19 pm

Post by Rasheed Babatunde » September 1st, 2009, 12:01 pm

APE,

You are right, though in my book "BETWEEN I AND I", I put it this way -
When you know that I am the same as you, that you are equal to me and I am equal to you; that we are they and they are we, you have known the truth.
When you look deeply and consciously at me, directly at my eyes, you will see yourself in my eyes ande-versa.
When God becomes our form of thinking, we begin to sense all men in one man, the whole world in a grain of sand and eternity in a moment.

Everything in this world is between I (God) and I (me) and I (you).

This is the absolute truth!

"You've no idea how hard I've looked for a gift to bring you. Nothing seemed right. What's the point of bringing gold to gold, or water to the ocean. Everything I come up with was like taking spice to the Orient. It's no good giving my heart and my soul because you already have these. So, I've brought you a mirror. Look at yourself and remember me." JALALUDDIN RUMI.

"For one who sees Me everywhere and sees everything in Me, I am never lost, nor is he ever lost to Me." Bhagavad-Gita.

ape
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Joined: April 6th, 2009, 9:55 pm

Post by ape » September 1st, 2009, 6:12 pm

Rasheed Babatunde wrote:APE,

You are right,
though in my book "BETWEEN I AND I", I put it this way -
"When you know
that I am the same as you,
that you are equal to me and I am equal to you;
that we are they and they are we,
you have known the truth.
When you look deeply and consciously at me, directly at my eyes, you will see yourself in my eyes ande-versa.
When God becomes our form of thinking, we begin to sense all men in one man, the whole world in a grain of sand and eternity in a moment.

Everything in this world is between I (God) and I (me) and I (you).

This is the absolute truth!"
Simply AWEFULL, Rasheed! [Full being more than the some in 'awesome.'!:)]
Excellence excelled!:)
Thanx for telling me that in YOUR own words!:)

And these quotes are simply icing on your cake!

"You've no idea how hard I've looked for a gift to bring you. Nothing seemed right. What's the point of bringing gold to gold, or water to the ocean. Everything I come up with was like taking spice to the Orient. It's no good giving my heart and my soul because you already have these. So, I've brought you a mirror. Look at yourself and remember me." JALALUDDIN RUMI.

"For one who sees Me everywhere and sees everything in Me, I am never lost, nor is he ever lost to Me." Bhagavad-Gita.

Rasheed Babatunde
Posts: 60
Joined: May 26th, 2009, 12:19 pm

Post by Rasheed Babatunde » September 21st, 2009, 6:27 am

The fear of God is the only authentic fear, the only fear that is real, that has foundation, since God is the only REALITY (all other things are ephemeral, they soon pass away)!

As aforementioned, our fear of God emanates from our love for Him.

"To fear the Lord is to love Him so intensely that you fear to do anything which is against His Will, and you do it because you realize Him intensely in your heart, though you do not see Him with your bodily senses." YUSUF ALI,COMMENTARY 5569 TO THE QUR'AN.

Fear God because He is the Greatest, the Almighty!

"...God is greater than man, why do you contend with Him...?" Job 33:12.

Fear God because He is the Lord of Dominion, the Irrefutable and the Irresistable -

"Doer (without let) of all that He intends." Qur'an 85:16.

"Our God is in the heavens; He does whatever He pleases." Psalms 115:3.

Fear God only. He alone is to be feared, not man, animal, spirit, prophet, evil or devil - fear God, the one and only. Jesus Christ confirmed this,

"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear Him who destroy both soul and body in hell." Mathew 10:28.

Moreover, in the book of Isaiah,

"I, I am he that comforts you; who are you that you are afraid of man who dies, of the son of man who is made like grass, and have forgotten the Lord your Maker." Isaiah 51:12.

The Holy Qur'an simply puts it thus -

"...and fear none but Me." Qur'an 2:40

Therefore, do your duty unto Him, love(fear) and obey Him :D

boagie
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Joined: October 13th, 2008, 7:50 am

Post by boagie » September 21st, 2009, 9:13 am

Babble O'holy men! The only fear found in nature is the fear of death, all fears can be linked back to that basic fear, including your fear of god. Is it so difficult to see, when scripture promises ever lasting life. God is a metaphor for that which is beyond all human intelectual comprehension, as metaphor the term god does not tell us anything more about the mystery of being or being in the world, it remains a mystery. It is quite natural to intuit belonging to something larger than ones self, the fact that there is no such thing as a closed system tells us this is a reality, not imagined but reality. We simply do not know what that totality is, unless it is the cosmos itself, the bibical god is an anthropomorphic construct of the imagination and a child like one at that, or perhaps you think those desert sheep herders knew more about biology and the cosmos than we do today.



"Man is manifestly not the measure of all things. This universe is shot through with mystery. The very fact of its being, and of our own, is a mystery absolute, and the only miracle worthy of the name. The consciousness that animates us is itself central to this mystery and ground for any experience we may wish to call “spiritual.” No myth needs to be embraced for us to commune with the profundity of our circumstance. No personal God need be worshipped for us to live in awe at the beauty and immensity of creation. No tribal fictions need be rehearsed for us to realize, one fine day, that we do, in fact, love our neighbors, that our happiness is inextricable from their own, and that our interdependence demands that people everywhere be given the opportunity to flourish. The days of our religious identities are clearly numbered. Whether the days of civilization itself are numbered would seem to depend, rather to much, on how soon we realize this."


sam harris

Rasheed Babatunde
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Joined: May 26th, 2009, 12:19 pm

Post by Rasheed Babatunde » October 8th, 2009, 4:40 pm

boagie wrote:Babble O'holy men! The only fear found in nature is the fear of death, all fears can be linked back to that basic fear, including your fear of god. Is it so difficult to see, when scripture promises ever lasting life. God is a metaphor for that which is beyond all human intelectual comprehension, as metaphor the term god does not tell us anything more about the mystery of being or being in the world, it remains a mystery. It is quite natural to intuit belonging to something larger than ones self, the fact that there is no such thing as a closed system tells us this is a reality, not imagined but reality. We simply do not know what that totality is, unless it is the cosmos itself, the bibical god is an anthropomorphic construct of the imagination and a child like one at that, or perhaps you think those desert sheep herders knew more about biology and the cosmos than we do today.



"Man is manifestly not the measure of all things. This universe is shot through with mystery. The very fact of its being, and of our own, is a mystery absolute, and the only miracle worthy of the name. The consciousness that animates us is itself central to this mystery and ground for any experience we may wish to call “spiritual.” No myth needs to be embraced for us to commune with the profundity of our circumstance. No personal God need be worshipped for us to live in awe at the beauty and immensity of creation. No tribal fictions need be rehearsed for us to realize, one fine day, that we do, in fact, love our neighbors, that our happiness is inextricable from their own, and that our interdependence demands that people everywhere be given the opportunity to flourish. The days of our religious identities are clearly numbered. Whether the days of civilization itself are numbered would seem to depend, rather to much, on how soon we realize this."


sam harris
boagie,

You said it all when you say the only fear found in nature is the fear of death and that all other fears can be linked to it.

The fear of death is the fear of the unknown!

We are afraid of death because we do not know what happens to us after death, we do not know our destination or our fate.

Therefore, the fear of death is the fear of the unknown, and God is the unknown, the unseen or the unfathomable.
Fear of death = Fear of the unknown = Fear of God :shock:

boagie
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Post by boagie » October 8th, 2009, 6:08 pm

Rasheed Babatunde, :)

I could not agree more, and when people use the term God in place of that ultimate mystery, it really does not tell us anymore about the mystery. The mystery of our own being and being in the world. Call it mystery, the unknown or God, it is beyond our comprehension. I know I have repeated myself but it does bare repeating. The religious create for themselves a metaphor and then believe this metaphor is it, they tend not to realize the metaphor needs to be transparent to the mystery, they have cut themselves off from real spirituality by making their metaphor concrete.

Belinda
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Post by Belinda » October 9th, 2009, 7:10 am

Rasheed, I like how you can quote and comment on the Qur'an and the OT prophet and yet you have the breadth of thinking of a pantheist.
Socialist

Rasheed Babatunde
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Joined: May 26th, 2009, 12:19 pm

Post by Rasheed Babatunde » October 10th, 2009, 3:45 am

Belinda wrote:Rasheed, I like how you can quote and comment on the Qur'an and the OT prophet and yet you have the breadth of thinking of a pantheist.
Belinda,

Thanks, you always made my day.

As a Muslim (with deep knowledge of the meanings of the words of the Qur'an), one will know that God is a natural Being that can be identified and known through His creations in nature.

My acceptance of other monotheistic religions is also based on the Qur'anic teachings, which accomodates other religions that believes in oneness of God and unalloyed and altruistic love.

An extract -

"Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians - Any who believe in Allah and the last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with theit Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." Qur'an 2:62.

Therefore, I am only following the teachings of the Qur'an...Thanks.

sunyata87
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Joined: October 9th, 2009, 9:18 pm

Post by sunyata87 » October 10th, 2009, 4:09 am

:D :D :D
Hi everyone!
i'm a new member
i care about phenomenologycal buddahism and the problem of epistemonologycal buddahism.
i want to deeply understant it, but i'm lacked document to read. i hope that everyone help me
Thank you so much!

Rasheed Babatunde
Posts: 60
Joined: May 26th, 2009, 12:19 pm

Post by Rasheed Babatunde » October 11th, 2009, 3:15 am

sunyata87 wrote::D :D :D
Hi everyone!
i'm a new member
i care about phenomenologycal buddahism and the problem of epistemonologycal buddahism.
i want to deeply understant it, but i'm lacked document to read. i hope that everyone help me
Thank you so much!
Sunyata87,
Maybe if you can let us know what you mean by 'phenomenologycal' and 'epistemonologycal' buddahism, we could be able to contribute.

tolex
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Re: Is God to be feared?

Post by tolex » October 19th, 2009, 11:52 pm

boagie wrote: One should not fear god, one should fear those whom believe in god.
i agree with you. we don,t need to fear God, does a child fear is parent? the love of a mother and father we not make a child fear is parent. a woman do not fear a man because he know that a man love him, it is the fear of evil that god we do that make many to fear God, our fear is a sign of our fear of is hate, those who fear God fear him because they believe they are guilty and fear God because they believe god do not love them because they believe they are sinner i am not a sinner am only a student of life learning life. i am not guilty of any sin

why do i have to fear God what have i done to him i don,t fear him i only respect him

Belinda
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Post by Belinda » October 20th, 2009, 5:37 am

Read your newspapers and realise there is no such thing as a loving heavenly father.
Socialist

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hallam
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Post by hallam » October 20th, 2009, 1:51 pm

Belinda wrote:Read your newspapers and realise there is no such thing as a loving heavenly father.
This is true. Reading a newspaper and watching other media of people who do not care for God (nor is that their job) and share a body count interpretation of the world and one would have a hard time realizing a loving heavenly father.

However, listen to your heart and quite your mind/the world to the point where God can talk to you, and the love of God can be felt.

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Post by Belinda » October 20th, 2009, 6:45 pm

However, listen to your heart and quite your mind/the world to the point where God can talk to you, and the love of God can be felt.
Wishful thinking costs nothing and can lull one into a soothed state of mind which feels pleasant. If there were a good God, however, he would rather you did not turn a blind eye to the suffering which is all around you.
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