Why doesn't god prove himself?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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Belinda
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Post by Belinda » July 18th, 2009, 4:21 am

Mr Pragmatism wrote:
My thought process was: If each person's reality is a universe unto himself or herself, then all actions within each person's reality are subjectively moralto him to him or her. Or does this subjectivity only relate to god, and nothing else?
What I believe God to be is what IS, existence itself, Necessity. I am pantheist. I don't believe in the monotheists' God, that is, the creator who transcended the possibility of manifest world at the time of creation and who still transcends the manifest world.

What follows from my pantheist belief relates only to god,(i.e. the pantheist god) and nothing else.Note that I did not give the word 'god' a capital letter and this is because I don't believe that there is such a person as God.The more an individual understands the workings of the universe, the more his subjectivity and objective truth come together.

Ape's often reiterated claims on behalf of love do fit with the pantheist notion of god, because with understanding of What Is, love comes hand in hand.

rayback
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Post by rayback » July 18th, 2009, 5:13 am

--

Belinda is simply claiming to be a goddess.

Naturally, one would have to see her to believe that.

I am not ruling out the possibility of my mind being knocked out by aesthetics.

It has happened before.

:wink:

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Martin Ekdahl
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Re: Why doesn't god prove himself?

Post by Martin Ekdahl » July 18th, 2009, 1:04 pm

nameless wrote:
Martin Ekdahl wrote:That was the best post that I have read on this forum until this date. Nameless, it's crazy, but I had exactly the same experience as you when I fell asleep last night. Reality is in the eyes of the beholder.
Thanx, I'm glad that you could find some food for thought in there.
It certainly is!
@__@
Yes, I feed on thoughts! :D
"The meaning with life must be to do something meaningful with your life".

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ontologic_conceptualist
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Post by ontologic_conceptualist » July 18th, 2009, 1:11 pm

I feed on intelligent thinking...there is a HUGE difference !!!
Who I Am Is What I Am
What I Am Is Why I Am
Why I Am IS Who I Am...

The question you should be asking is...who are you?

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Post by rationalist griggsy » July 19th, 2009, 10:35 pm


John Hick,advanced theologian,maintains that yea, to honor our free will to accept Him, He had to allow evil: that is why the epistemic distance. Now John L.Schellenberg and Theodore Drange rightly maintain that that make Him as non-existent and why there are so many unbelievers.
Besides, He had no right to want us to worship Him or to judge us! His duty was to have placed us in a safe place as per the problem of Heaven.It is not what He desires, but what is moral. :idea:
Belinda,I'm a Quentin Smith pantheist- in awe of Existence. It is the " goddess"- Mother Nature.

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Post by nameless » July 20th, 2009, 3:21 am

rationalist wrote:...He had no right... His duty was... It is not what He desires, but what is moral.
'He' who? Is this satire? Are you speaking of the paradox of the JudeoXtian bible god?
And from JudeoXtian religion's Perspective, 'morality' is the 'sin' of pride.
Otherwise, it is still vanity/pride.

Belinda
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Post by Belinda » July 20th, 2009, 7:03 am

Rayback, I never have done so and don't do so now.

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Why doesn't god prove himself?

Post by SpiralsHappen » December 8th, 2009, 12:39 am

Many people, curiously enough, believe that the seat of thought, imagination, and the mind encompassed by our memory is found in the brain. Actually, this is somewhat reversed. Our body, especially the brain, is an instrument like a radio receiver that automatically picks up any frequency. This automatic quality itself is that which is known as memory, thought and imagination. Thus, our small brain is like a connection to the large "brain" of the universe itself. These things, as well as the powers of reasoning and will, are not merely a receiver that picks up radio waves; they are like a very advanced and sensitive television set that operates in time-in the past, the present, and future. Within our brain alone, there are at least ten billion vacuum tubes called cells. Our body is soaked in the depths of the infinite undulating ocean of the pre-electronic waves of mind, soul, or spirit. Our thinking mind is not contained within this fragile and ephemeral prison of the body; quite the contrary. For this very reason we are able to think, imagine, memorize, and compare one scene with another.

Our body is immersed to the marrow of our bones in the ocean of super-high-speed electronic waves over the Earth that are constantly passing through us. The speed of the Earth's rotation around the sun plus the speed of the sun also moving around the Milky Way galaxy, combined with the movement of our Earth as it also spins on its own axis while receiving this influence, equals a tremendous speed. Every instant, our actions here on this Earth are projected at this ultra-super speed into the far reaches of space. It is like a scene from a movie. At first, it is all rolled up and put away within the film case, but when it becomes extended through the lens of the miraculous extrasensory projector of our mind and realized on the screen of our consciousness, we are able to witness all the variety of life's scenes every moment, and from any place. This is certainly the most complicated of all projectors.


The Order of the Infinite Universe-the eternal principles of change-are nothing but the different names of the living God or the moving infinite creation. When the name God is used, it is often misunderstood as a static personality, and when the term Infinity is used, it is difficult for many people to comprehend. The infinity of God is neither a person nor a phenomenon; it is a universal oneness, embracing everything-every being, every phenomenon-and it is the endless universe itself. Other names for this limitless source or process are Truth, Love, Righteousness, Absolute Justice and Peace. The universe does not remain in one state but is changing constantly-transforming continuously, transmuting eternally from beginningless beginning to the endless end. The infinite universe is a process of absolute dynamic change within which countless relative changes are arising everywhere in every dimension and at all times.

For if you stare too long into the abyss, the abyss with eventually stare back into you, and you will find yourself with me as god!

Belinda
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Post by Belinda » December 8th, 2009, 7:27 am

God does not prove himself because, as St Teresa of Avila said, we are ourselves the hands of God.
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Ken Mory
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Limiting God

Post by Ken Mory » August 28th, 2011, 4:30 pm

Interesting question... we are discussing an omnipotent eternal being and we want to set the parameters that define the proof of his existence. Could it be that our scientific method and our logical rational methodology are so inadequate when faced with dealing with the very idea of our creator. I think we should challenge our beliefs on what constitutes proof when dealing with the idea of explaining the "all". Our five senses and cognitive abilities must be so inadequate.

Worms in the wood concieving eternity....

Belinda
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Post by Belinda » August 29th, 2011, 5:02 am

'God' is customarily said to be all powerful. If this is so, God , besides beauty, has to be ugliness, fear, pain decay and death because these states also exist.
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enegue
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Post by enegue » August 29th, 2011, 6:30 pm

Belinda wrote:'God' is customarily said to be all powerful. If this is so, God , besides beauty, has to be ugliness, fear, pain decay and death because these states also exist.
Can you explain why you believe this, Belinda? It's like saying, because children behave in ugly ways that their parents are to blame. Do you believe parents should prevent their children from behaving in ugly ways? How would you do this?

Cheers,
enegue

Belinda
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Post by Belinda » August 30th, 2011, 3:11 am

enegue wrote:
Belinda wrote:'God' is customarily said to be all powerful. If this is so, God , besides beauty, has to be ugliness, fear, pain decay and death because these states also exist.
Can you explain why you believe this, Belinda? It's like saying, because children behave in ugly ways that their parents are to blame. Do you believe parents should prevent their children from behaving in ugly ways? How would you do this?

Cheers,
enegue
God is often said to be like a parent; this is what I call 'the loving heavenly father' version of God who is sorry that we children stray from his goodness.This version of God is good to believe in, despite the frequent childish implication that such a magical being exists.The LHF is forgiving, understanding and tolerant, all good attitudes that we should cultivate.


However parents are not all powerful or we would assuredly protect our sons and daughters from some terrible things that can happen to them.Neither is the loving heavenly father all-powerful to prevent us reaping the fruits of our follies , or suffering because of natural disasters.

Theologians are often much concerend with theodicies which aim to explain why God can be both all powerful and all benevolent.The most frequent one is that God cannot be understood by us mortals, and his justice will prevail despite what seems to us poor mortals to be inconsistencies.

While this may be the case, such a God is no earthly use to we who are trying to wrestle with the perils of life, unless we also believe in rewards and punishments after we die and go to the afterlife. :P
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Azriel
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Re: Why doesn't god prove himself?

Post by Azriel » September 11th, 2011, 6:46 pm

Personally, I see evidence of God almost everyday and while my understanding and perception of God varies from any other on Earth, I've yet to see evidence validating any other perception. Most people's understanding of God cannot be established by any written book and any book that anyone could offer would be invalid because it was written by a mortal, therefore subject to mortal conception and intrepretation. Today's christians believe in an all loving, all powerful compassionate god who will protect them and yet with all of the christians that havew perished unneccessarily over the last decade, clearly reveals that their fictious god is coming up very short in the protection department. At the same time, over the past decade, I've been witness to the demise of many an individual that dared to attack me or my God. The reason that God doesn't show himself to the average individual is because the whole concept of society's God(s) is a fallacy. The christian religion has long believed that they would be raptured up into Heaven to escape the great end time tribulation but there is no biblical evidence to substantiate that ergo I submit that belief is false. They believe in a God of wealth and abundance (albeit material abundance) and again while their is no biblical evidence to subtantiate that, there is countless biblical evidence to refute it. An example would be that a particular group of individuals thought that it was acceptable to vandalize me vehicle and while that caused me a financial set back in the tune of $200, the baby that flew out of thew car window and the infant that fell from a 3 floor apt. window, quickly revealed to these individuals that screwing with me is a very dangerous proposition. So if you really want God to prove himself to you, just come to my house and **** with me, and I can guarantee you that you will be discussing it with him personally.

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Re: Why doesn't god prove himself?

Post by jezzeronthecoast » September 29th, 2011, 5:44 am

Hi all.

One analogy I heard once on proof of the existence of God, and ‘his’ providing proof of ‘his’ existence. A man sitting in his kitchen one morning having breakfast, listening to the radio while having breakfast hears an emergency broadcast from the government informing of an impending flood, and strongly suggesting all in his area should evacuate before it comes, trusting in God the man decides to stay, the flood comes, and consumes his first floor, at this time a rescue boat comes by, the crew say to him, that he should get out, and come with them, the man says no, he has faith in God, the flood keeps rising and later the man goes to his second floor, the same thing happens another rescue boat comes by, saying the same thing as before, again he said no, he has faith that God will save him, the flood keeps rising until the man is on his roof, again the rescue boat comes offering him a chance to get out, and again the man said no, he has faith in God. The flood keeps rising and he is swept to his death. When he gets to heaven he is of course angry and said to God, I put my faith in you, and you let me die, how could you do that? God said but didn’t you hear the radio announcement, or see the rescue boats I sent.

God is the same with evidence of the existence of God, it can be difficult to see, and often is esoteric, and is in places that is difficult to see.

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