Are we all born an Atheist?
- Sy Borg
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?
NewMe, I appreciate that you wish to keep homosexuality front and centre in your mind at all times.
I wonder why one would obsess about gays? There are literally millions of other things to think about but, for whatever reason, homosexuality is clearly your life's great passion.
However, this is a thread about atheism and people don't attend atheism threads to read about your fixation with the bodies of gay people.
- Newme
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?
- phenomenal_graffiti
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?
In other news...
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?
Therefore children have an inner strength which suggests they understand that God created their soul and on their death they return to Heaven where they came from.
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?
Children's soul can be hundreds if not thousands of years old and they they are not atheists but wired into the situation they are in and accept their journey good or bad.
The human devils (Nazi officials) that tortured and murdered children by poison gas or medical experimentation or throwing them into a burning pit in WWII, were not killing atheist children but God-loving children who knew they were returning to be with their creator in Heaven. They knew the Nazi officials that killed them would never go to Heaven and stay on earthell.
- LuckyR
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?
Your observations of the behavior of children can be explained many ways, none of which are inherently distinguishable from rationalization.Darshan wrote: ↑May 3rd, 2020, 10:21 pm Earthellism answers the question are we all born an Atheist. Newborns and babies are all gifts from God who created their soul and their human parents created everything else. One clue is that very young children appear not to be afraid of death. They fear separation from their parents and fear strangers. Young children have this inner strength that tells them that they descended from Heaven to experience earthell and human love. They appear to sense that at death they return to where they were preconception. This is all clearly seen in the film footage of the young children in the concentration camps of World War II. That footage shows the young children walking hand in hand with no fear or anger but a quiet resignation that this is their journey through Hell and as long as they have some human affection/love that they will be alright. Testimonial from Nazi guards describe a mother with 3 young children as they are led to the gas chamber and the children at peace since they are all holding part of their mothers hands or clothes. The mother confronts the Nazi guard who evilly says he does not hate the children, he just hates the children's Jewish blood. This footage made me physically ill and truly is Hell on earth.
Therefore children have an inner strength which suggests they understand that God created their soul and on their death they return to Heaven where they came from.
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?
Using this line of reasoning, I presume you would conclude that anything which does not fear death must have descended from Heaven to experience earthell and human love? Lack of fear of that particular event is the premise to your argument, yes?Darshan wrote:One clue is that very young children appear not to be afraid of death. They fear separation from their parents and fear strangers. Young children have this inner strength that tells them that they descended from Heaven to experience earthell and human love. They appear to sense that at death they return to where they were preconception.
(Can you see where I'm going with this?)
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?
The film footage of children in Nazi concentration camps is is what this is based on,
Philosophy requires one to think outside the box that rational thought keeps us in.
Rod Serling of the Twilight Zone would easily see the consistency and spiritual correctness of earthellism.
- Sy Borg
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?
This is an interesting observation Greta, thanks for it.At that stage it does not see its mother as separate, but they are a composite being of sorts.
According to the Gospel of NukeBan this composite being phenomena could be explained by the dawn of thought in the baby's brain. Before thought gets established the baby sees the world (correctly?) as a single unified whole. As thought develops the unified whole is broken up in to conceptual parts, and the "me" is born.
Before the big bang, all was one, or something close. Then the BANG!, division emerged from the one, and things were born.
If one's perspective is built upon observation of reality, and looking for known patterns which may be repeating in unexplained phenomena, then the emergence of reality and the emergence of the baby might be compared.
Before birth the baby was "unified with the one" so to speak. During a brief period after birth the baby can be observed transitioning from unity to the realm of division. At first baby/mom/reality are experienced as a single unified thing as Greta suggests, and then gradually thought begins it's job of drawing conceptual boundaries.
Best I can tell, at least some religious people are using the term God to refer to the state of unity which the baby inhabits at the dawn of life. And then there is the "fall of man" or "original sin" where we enter the realm of division, separation, and the suffering (ejection from the Garden of Eden) which flows from that state. This suffering gives rise to the desire to "get back to God", a quest which becomes formalized in organized religions.
If the experience of division and separation is a thought generated illusion, religion might be seen as a collection of optional procedures which have as their goal transcending the illusion of separation, and the suffering which flows from it.
If true, it would be rational for anyone to decline religion if religion is not helping them transcend the illusion of separation. It would however be irrational for them to ignore the separation illusion problem which religions are seeking to solve. The rational act would be, if one tool isn't working put it down and select another. But don't walk away from the job.
If the experience of division and separation is a thought generated illusion, that's not a religious problem, that's a human problem.
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?
Trouble is, infants do feel separate to anyone who does not smell like the mother, probably because they did not spend months squashed up inside them. At first infants tend to be scared of, rather than connected to, everyone. Except mother - the goddess, who is huge, all-powerful, their protector and giver of all bounty and comfort.NukeBan wrote: ↑May 9th, 2020, 11:43 amThis is an interesting observation Greta, thanks for it.At that stage it does not see its mother as separate, but they are a composite being of sorts.
According to the Gospel of NukeBan this composite being phenomena could be explained by the dawn of thought in the baby's brain. Before thought gets established the baby sees the world (correctly?) as a single unified whole. As thought develops the unified whole is broken up in to conceptual parts, and the "me" is born.
Before the big bang, all was one, or something close. Then the BANG!, division emerged from the one, and things were born.
If one's perspective is built upon observation of reality, and looking for known patterns which may be repeating in unexplained phenomena, then the emergence of reality and the emergence of the baby might be compared.
Before birth the baby was "unified with the one" so to speak. During a brief period after birth the baby can be observed transitioning from unity to the realm of division. At first baby/mom/reality are experienced as a single unified thing as Greta suggests, and then gradually thought begins it's job of drawing conceptual boundaries.
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?
- Sy Borg
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?
The OP, of course, is asking whether people naturally gravitate towards belief in supreme entities or if it's the result of cultural conditioning based on our ancestors' anthropormphism of natural phenomena. Personally, I find it hard to not think of stars and planets as gods, worthy of the greatest possible awe and respect, when you consider their scale, scope and range of influence.
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?
It seems helpful to recall that Abrahamic religions (which is what is usually being discussed on philosophy forums) arose thousands of years ago in an era dominated by uneducated peasants who lived short harsh lives, life expectancies half of ours perhaps. So whatever insightful sages who may have existed were in a position perhaps similar to trying to explain sex to a five year old. The anthropomorphism of natural phenomena may have arose in that context, in the attempt to craft stories which that audience could relate to.
Today in a very different environment the stories no longer work as well, which is to be expected. And so one can reasonably reject stories one can't relate to.
As the five year old grows up the story about the stork bringing baby brother will no longer work, but baby brother still came from somewhere. So while the stork story is now dead, what that story was attempting to point to may not be.
To me, this seems the most rational move. Whether one thinks the stars are gods or giant balls of nuclear fire or something else, the bottom line practical rational question is the same, what is our relationship with it? The most rational philosopher might be the person who has found their way to experiencing tears of joy while observing the beauty of a handful of dirt. When the smallest things can bring us the greatest joy, then joy will be everywhere, and reason will have triumphed.Personally, I find it hard to not think of stars and planets as gods, worthy of the greatest possible awe and respect, when you consider their scale, scope and range of influence.
- Sy Borg
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?
Clearly you lean towards the cultural conditioning possibility. I do think there is an innate tendency towards awe and worship, probably starting with one's parents. Once we approach their powers and see their fallibility, the same impulse can be seen to be directed towards VIPs, lovers and mythical characters.NukeBan wrote: ↑May 10th, 2020, 10:37 amIt seems helpful to recall that Abrahamic religions (which is what is usually being discussed on philosophy forums) arose thousands of years ago in an era dominated by uneducated peasants who lived short harsh lives, life expectancies half of ours perhaps. So whatever insightful sages who may have existed were in a position perhaps similar to trying to explain sex to a five year old. The anthropomorphism of natural phenomena may have arose in that context, in the attempt to craft stories which that audience could relate to.
Today in a very different environment the stories no longer work as well, which is to be expected. And so one can reasonably reject stories one can't relate to.
As the five year old grows up the story about the stork bringing baby brother will no longer work, but baby brother still came from somewhere. So while the stork story is now dead, what that story was attempting to point to may not be.
To me, this seems the most rational move. Whether one thinks the stars are gods or giant balls of nuclear fire or something else, the bottom line practical rational question is the same, what is our relationship with it? The most rational philosopher might be the person who has found their way to experiencing tears of joy while observing the beauty of a handful of dirt. When the smallest things can bring us the greatest joy, then joy will be everywhere, and reason will have triumphed.Personally, I find it hard to not think of stars and planets as gods, worthy of the greatest possible awe and respect, when you consider their scale, scope and range of influence.
Even if there is no one worthy of such awe, we agree that there are some things that warrant those feelings. Given the layered way reality works, each layer is comprised of "subjects" and is, in itself, a "subject" of a greater entity. For us, that might be humanity as a whole, life as a whole, the Earth, the Sun or even the entire universe. It is a sign of the unenlightened times in which gods were first worshipped that no one bothers with the poor old Milky Way or, indeed, the supermassive black hole Sagittarius A* that fulfils more qualities of God than any other known entity.
1. Likely creator and maintainer of our galaxy
2. Ethereal, not made from the same substance as us
3. Not subject to the same physics as us
4. Cannot be seen or touched
5. Impossibly huge (almost 13 million kms) and powerful, whose influence indirectly runs through the entire galaxy
6. Effectively eternal, lasting quadrillions of years to the endgame of the universe while being subjectively timeless in its centre.
Interestingly, the ancients skipped immediately from humanity to the entire universe, sometimes including the Earth and Sun along the way. So, while intermediate entities are dismissed (also galactic clusters and superclusters, with Laniakea being another godlike entity), there was always a logical sense that there must be "everything" aka the universe.
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