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Are we all born an Atheist?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
Eduk
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Eduk » October 8th, 2018, 1:09 pm

Which God do most people believe in Joseph? Can you share your sources?
Can you think of anything which is widely believed but false? If you can then can you explain why religious belief holds a special position amongst belief?
How many people believing something is needed to make that belief true?
Unknown means unknown.

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ThomasHobbes
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by ThomasHobbes » October 8th, 2018, 3:07 pm

Eduk wrote:
October 8th, 2018, 1:09 pm
How many people believing something is needed to make that belief true?
There is no such number.
There is no necessary connection between belief and truth.

Eduk
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Eduk » October 8th, 2018, 3:18 pm

I agree TH, but Joseph seems to feel otherwise. Or at least where it suits him, seems happy enough not to use the same logic when applied to non theists beliefs.
Unknown means unknown.

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SimpleGuy
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by SimpleGuy » October 18th, 2018, 1:41 pm

We're not born atheists , we had to sacrifice everything to get a glimpse of god and then had to sacrifice god. The main thing was to sacrifice, what's left was a potion of nihilism and the insight that atheism is not such a strange attitude. But i am still sacrificing others.😆😆

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Newme
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Newme » October 20th, 2018, 12:50 am

SimpleGuy wrote:
October 18th, 2018, 1:41 pm
We're not born atheists , we had to sacrifice everything to get a glimpse of god and then had to sacrifice god. The main thing was to sacrifice, what's left was a potion of nihilism and the insight that atheism is not such a strange attitude. But i am still sacrificing others.😆😆
:) Don’t sacrifice me! :)
There may be more to that than superficial humor. Fowler’s faith stages suggest after religious dogma stage comes skeptical atheist stage - and then the 5th stage involves taking good bits from the 2 previous without getting stuck in either.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/38/b4/28 ... bc77d7.jpg

Karpel Tunnel
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Karpel Tunnel » October 20th, 2018, 3:24 pm

We are born with a tendency to personify. This may or may not be correct. Obviously no child is born believing in Allah, say. But belief in God or nature spirits is also not likely simply culture put in children's brains. I personified a lot of things that no adult told me to.


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Mark1955
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Mark1955 » October 21st, 2018, 5:04 am

Eduk wrote:
October 8th, 2018, 3:24 am
Mark. Scot didn't say agnostics are atheists. He said the two terms aren't mutually exclusive?
And that's where we differ, believing there is no god is as irrational an act as believing there is a god to this agnostic and I can't see how the 'it's all the same' can be justified.
If you think you know the answer you probably don't understand the question.

Karpel Tunnel
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Karpel Tunnel » October 21st, 2018, 6:09 am

Mark1955 wrote:
October 21st, 2018, 5:04 am
Eduk wrote:
October 8th, 2018, 3:24 am
Mark. Scot didn't say agnostics are atheists. He said the two terms aren't mutually exclusive?
And that's where we differ, believing there is no god is as irrational an act as believing there is a god to this agnostic and I can't see how the 'it's all the same' can be justified.
'Not mutually exclusive' does not equal 'its all the same'.

Eduk
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Eduk » October 21st, 2018, 10:32 am

Mark atheism is not necessarily the same as believing there is no God. Not sure why so many people repeatedly stumble on this. Or after hearing there is more than one definition either immediately forgot or simply decide they don't care to communicate clearly. Doesn't make sense to me.
Unknown means unknown.

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Greta
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Greta » October 21st, 2018, 6:36 pm

Eduk wrote:
October 21st, 2018, 10:32 am
Mark atheism is not necessarily the same as believing there is no God. Not sure why so many people repeatedly stumble on this.
Believing there is no God vs Not believing in God.

However, entities that largely fulfil the stated requirements of God do exist - supermassive black holes.

Sagittarius A*, around which the Milky Way rotates, is:

- responsible for creating us and keeping us alive
- larger than is comprehensible
- more powerful than anything we can imagine
- not comprised of matter
- not subject to time as we are, virtually timeless

Black holes are the very epitome of bonding - they draw you to them and in the end we may end up back in there.

What aspects of God have been missed?

Karpel Tunnel
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Karpel Tunnel » October 21st, 2018, 9:54 pm

Greta wrote:
October 21st, 2018, 6:36 pm
Eduk wrote:
October 21st, 2018, 10:32 am
Mark atheism is not necessarily the same as believing there is no God. Not sure why so many people repeatedly stumble on this.
Believing there is no God vs Not believing in God.

However, entities that largely fulfil the stated requirements of God do exist - supermassive black holes.

Sagittarius A*, around which the Milky Way rotates, is:

- responsible for creating us and keeping us alive
- larger than is comprehensible
- more powerful than anything we can imagine
- not comprised of matter
- not subject to time as we are, virtually timeless

Black holes are the very epitome of bonding - they draw you to them and in the end we may end up back in there.

What aspects of God have been missed?
Generally God is an experiencer, has viewpoints, is aware of things, has emotions. In monotheisms: is transcendent. Is not part of something larger: for example, is not a subset of the universe. In monotheisms: is a moral being, with opinions about what morals we should have. Does not have an origin in time.

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Greta
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Greta » October 21st, 2018, 11:52 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
October 21st, 2018, 9:54 pm
Greta wrote:
October 21st, 2018, 6:36 pm

Believing there is no God vs Not believing in God.

However, entities that largely fulfil the stated requirements of God do exist - supermassive black holes.

Sagittarius A*, around which the Milky Way rotates, is:

- responsible for creating us and keeping us alive
- larger than is comprehensible
- more powerful than anything we can imagine
- not comprised of matter
- not subject to time as we are, virtually timeless

Black holes are the very epitome of bonding - they draw you to them and in the end we may end up back in there.

What aspects of God have been missed?
Generally God is an experiencer, has viewpoints, is aware of things, has emotions. In monotheisms: is transcendent. Is not part of something larger: for example, is not a subset of the universe. In monotheisms: is a moral being, with opinions about what morals we should have. Does not have an origin in time.
Solid reply :) Lack of omnipresence is the main dealbreaker. Still, most branches posit God as apart from the universe, and it's said that a black hole is functionally a separate universe in itself. Maybe this is one of those weird inside-outy kind of dynamics where who is is without is really within, or something like that ...

A deity that creates all of this is clearly not a moral being, but one that gets things done without care about the suffering of innocents inflicted along the way. That's not a judgement, just an observation.

Jklint
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Jklint » October 22nd, 2018, 1:40 am

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
October 21st, 2018, 9:54 pm
Greta wrote:
October 21st, 2018, 6:36 pm

Believing there is no God vs Not believing in God.

However, entities that largely fulfil the stated requirements of God do exist - supermassive black holes.

Sagittarius A*, around which the Milky Way rotates, is:

- responsible for creating us and keeping us alive
- larger than is comprehensible
- more powerful than anything we can imagine
- not comprised of matter
- not subject to time as we are, virtually timeless

Black holes are the very epitome of bonding - they draw you to them and in the end we may end up back in there.

What aspects of God have been missed?
Generally God is an experiencer, has viewpoints, is aware of things, has emotions. In monotheisms: is transcendent. Is not part of something larger: for example, is not a subset of the universe. In monotheisms: is a moral being, with opinions about what morals we should have. Does not have an origin in time.
God seems awfully human were it not for its transcendency being without origin in time. Aside from these minor attributes everything else seems to fit!

Eduk
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Eduk » October 22nd, 2018, 2:55 am

Greta. As you know I'm an atheist. But I've never got the God must be cruel argument.
Perhaps all the subjectively horrible things that happen are necessary in some way.
Unknown means unknown.

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