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Is religion created by human?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
Belinda
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Post by Belinda » December 1st, 2008, 7:27 pm

Dewey, should I explain that this metaphysical position that I hold is one of absence of Free Will? This would be a huge big tangent to slide on to :)

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Post by Akhenaten » December 2nd, 2008, 12:35 am

Human behaviour is a chemical process that, on the whole, isn't all that un-predictable. To say whether or not a supernatural entity created religion, would be the idle question of whether or not they created their own divinity. If they ascended power themselves, I can see this, however if these entities had always existed, then they did not create religion.

If a being came into its power, and had already existed for the concept of Power to have displayed itself, then possibly I could see (Atleat if they were human) the setting up of a religion based upon yourself. This would go far in explaining many ancient mysteries of the world, as well as their odd religions. Such as Egypt that speaks of a 36,000 year history of their own empire, listing every king... and every stating that Civilization rises and falls like the tides.... the felt the last civilization before them fell at the end of the last ice age... to a great flood, which unfortunately for archaeologists, makes alot of sense geologically.

Many, if not most, ancient religions believed in the concept of a human being ascending and being Godly here on earth... even going so far as to ascending further to fully become gods. If... what we call gods were merely ascending humans of an ancient civilization, just before its collapse, so many more things would make sense. Unfortunately, this concept seems, almost arbitrarily, disputed in almost all mainstream Archaeological circles. (scientists are holding firm however)

However, from another standpoint, such as the CHristian standpoint... if a being had always existed at its current power level, then why would it have a concept of something far less powerful than it? Just an idle question... if you're omnipotent, and you exist in a void, why make a tiny little universe, put people on an electron-sized dot in the universe, and go "BOW TO ME!"? Just, honestly, ask yourself... is there something wrong with that idea? If not, what does that tell you about the God you're praying to?

Religion is rather self defeating, as it has no real proof of its story. Therefore I'd assume that, unless this ineffable universe is a whole lot more ineffable than we've previously believed (a galactic sized snowglobe from Paris floating near the outer rim for example), that either this God entity isn't what you think, or that the religions of the world have forgotten the meaning of the old stories and have no real idea what they are praying to.

Its possible you're praying to an ancient king of an empire so old you think we should have been living in huts... or mabye, just mabye, Egypt was right in its 8,000 year story of how magic comes and goes every cycle of the earth, and that they would not relinquish its practice until the next cycle... sadly Greece got there first, and you're just praying to an ancient sorcerer.

In this, I'd say Religion was man made, as anything that powerful which demands that much worship and sacrifice from its people, when it can manifest these things on its own, makes almost no sense.

Granted, not all religions are the 'Godly' ones, and not all of them have bad rammifications, peoples, or beliefs. Perhaps they don't even have a god, like many religions. The same applies... if you believe that you can ascend through meditation and harmony, then I'm sure the universe doesn't really care, and again didn't create religion itself.

Worship is performed and begun by those whom are either terrified or in awe of something, it generally doesn't happen to average and standard circumstances...

Claiming, however, that we ascribed Gods to natural occurances such as lightning and so forth, without good reason?.. After life on this planet has evolved with these conditions for over a billion years, and my Dog learned to stop being scared of it in about 6 months? The human race had a, as well all know, -atleast- 1.6 million year run thus far, pushing it we can shove it back almost to 20 million years if we accept some studies and finds (As these are not accepted by mainstream archaeology we will leave them out)? I'm fairly certain they either had a reason to create the concept of gods, or that something odd was happening to the world's ecosystem when we first evolved.
DISCLAIMER: THIS DOCUMENT does not cover all individuals in the infinite and variable universe. This is in no way is speaking on cases of incredible, random, or odds of more than 1 : Pi against probability.

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kiwi bird
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Post by kiwi bird » December 5th, 2008, 10:23 am

The short answer: yes.

But "created" is a misleading word to use, as very few religions have been CREATED per se (in a sense that "Hey, let's create a belief-system in some supernatural things" etc.). Most religions are born out of social factors interacting with cognitive factors, spontaneously.

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Post by nameless » December 5th, 2008, 4:44 pm

Dewey wrote:...we look at the dictionery's definition of "create" and read: "to cause to exist".
Different dictionaries offer different definitions all the time.
Dictionaries are regularly revised. Sometimes yearly.
You will not find security and stability, or ultimate 'answers' in a dictionary unless you remain somehow stuck in one moment with one dictionary. As our experience and understanding 'change', everything (world, world-view, definitions) changes;

"A word is not a crystal, transparent and unchanged; it is the skin of a living thought and may vary greatly in color and content according to the circumstances and time in which it is used." -Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.

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Is religion created by human?

Post by Dewey » December 6th, 2008, 2:27 am

Hi nameless,

Thanks for the advice on how to use dictionaries. Now that I’m smarter in that regard, please allow me to rephrase the comment I worded so poorly.

I (and perhaps others) am puzzled by the simultaneous statements that “humans did not create religion” and “Religion evolved as part of human behavior.” They seem contradictory, particularly so in view of a common definition of “create” being “to cause to exist”.

Any explanation you or others would care to offer will be appreciated.

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Re: Is religion created by human?

Post by nameless » December 6th, 2008, 3:07 am

Dewey wrote:They seem contradictory, particularly so in view of a common definition of “create” being “to cause to exist”.
Right, 'a' definition, one among many... If that one definition states your own understanding and intended meaning, then feel free to reference it if asked for your definition. It's a personal thing.
Any explanation you or others would care to offer will be appreciated.
Apparently contradictory Perspectives can all be 'correct'.
Recall the blind men around the elephant. They each extend their hands and feel the elephant before them. They describe what they perceive. One feels the tail and describes the elephant as snakelike with a poofy hairdo. Perhaps he would argue that a dictionary definition of an elephant be described thus. Another feels the side flank and declares that an elephant is like unto a great wall with wrinkles and some coarse hair. Perhaps he would also argue that his perception should be the dictionary definition. The other view is so 'contradictory', 'snakelike'! Ha! To another, a 'tree'; to another a warm wet cave that smells bad...
Are you starting to get it? Will you argue for your Perspective of elephant in the dictionary at the expense of ever possibly knowing that the real elephant is the sum total of all Perspectives. Do you get this yet? Am I being clear?
Are you understanding the limitations of any single 'definition/perspective' for all Perspectives, for all time? Can you now understand Oliver Wendel Holmes' quote?
If you still want to argue this, we have left the land of logic and reason and entered the twilight land of 'beliefs' and emotio-psychological 'needs' and 'processes'.

There is no argument here.

Besides, if you are so satisfied with 'common understandings and definitions', what are you doing here? This is a 'critical thought' zone at best; a bleating repetition of the poorly understood thoughts of dead people at worst.
You can imbibe all that you need of the mundane thoughts and understandings of the mooing herd at the market; the produce section is good.
Or public school...

Happy trails

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Post by Belinda » December 6th, 2008, 4:22 am

Kiwi wrote
Most religions are born out of social factors interacting with cognitive factors, spontaneously.
But neither Constantine nor Muhammad did their religion-founding spontaneously. Both were tremendous politicians.

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Post by Belinda » December 6th, 2008, 4:30 am

Dewey wrote
I (and perhaps others) am puzzled by the simultaneous statements that “humans did not create religion” and “Religion evolved as part of human behavior.” They seem contradictory, particularly so in view of a common definition of “create” being “to cause to exist”.
I suggest that the first claim is commonly based on the implied existence of a God who intervenes in history to make things happen, and that therefore it was God who created religion.

Whereas the second claim is based on the implication that humans are no more agents of change than are lions which is of course untrue and you don't have to be other than a thoroughgoing determinist to view humans as responsible enough to change old habits.Lions are not responsible enough because they don't reason: humans do reason.

To put it into the language of perspectives. Human perspectives are N times more various and transitory than the perspectives of lions, because human reason speeds up changes.The creation and subsequent abandonment of religions is one of the hues that colours the many changes that humans create. 'Create' in the sense of making it exist.(In the sense of the third of Popper's Worlds)

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Post by wanabe » December 6th, 2008, 4:52 am

man crated religion first in awe of natural forces, then some smart king made some rules, and said there is a god out there, that is all about honoring the rules he made. so essentially if you don't follow the kings rules, you spend your afterlife paying for it.

the religion most people worship, is some form of kin from that above kind.

now that is not to say there isn't an after life, or a spirit, or truths, or universal morals to live up to. I've said it before "god" is made up of all that once was...
Secret To Eternal Life: Live Life To The Fullest, Help All Others To Do So.Meaning of Life Is Choice. Increase choice through direct perception. Golden rule+universality principal+Promote benefits-harm+logical consistency=morality.BeTheChange.

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Is religion created by humans?

Post by Dewey » December 6th, 2008, 5:45 pm

Hi Belinda,

Thanks for the explanation. Now I understand where you were coming from.

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Post by kiwi bird » December 10th, 2008, 2:35 pm

Belinda wrote:But neither Constantine nor Muhammad did their religion-founding spontaneously. Both were tremendous politicians.
Sure, but I think we shouldn't credit them alone. They didn't just come from nowhere to spread their wild ideas. Bunch of factors (social, cultural etc.) must have been in place before such charismatic leaders could get any support for their ideas. Or that such leaders would even appear.

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Post by Belinda » December 10th, 2008, 5:02 pm

Well yes, Kiwi. Constantine had the tradition of immensely powerful emperor-ship, and the religion of Sol Invictus which just needed a bit of tweeking to make it over into Christianity. Muhammad had Christianity and Judaism as already established religions and he just needed to invent a similar theism with the same Old Testament which would give the desert tribes an Arabian identity.

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Post by johnny rocket » December 13th, 2008, 10:51 pm

Perhaps you may want to take a few steps back and consider the wider picture, like the HRO scenario.

http://markplain.com/hro_scenario.aspx

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Post by B4byC4rr0tz » January 11th, 2009, 11:41 pm

yea it is, it serves a couple of different functions; it is a coping mechanism for human consciousness i. e. it answers questions such as how we got here etc. and it also serves as a moral compass for those who do not develop their own.

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Re: Is religion created by human?

Post by df544 » February 20th, 2009, 8:37 pm

froud wrote:Is religion created by human?

Not just human.

Location is a factor too. Deserts played a big factor in the creation of Judaism.

Today, in the Amazon there are small, peaceful tribes that have enough to eat and live without religion.

On a desert, mirages appear.

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