If there is a God, why is there evil?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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Belindi
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Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post by Belindi »

Greta in her guise of Devil's advocate wrote:
Would an entity with a trillion-year lifespan be much worried about a mere billion years of torment (the current age of nervous systems) in their youth, or would that seem like just a brief, necessary period of discomfort, soon to be shrugged off?
Christianity is Judaism filtered through the words and life of Jesus according to the New Testament. Jesus (I think, I don't think it was Paul ?) said God knows when the sparrow falls and all the hairs on your head are numbered.

The implication is God knows the minute particulars including human feelings,as well as the big systems.Of the three main attributes of the Xian god, omnibenevolence, omnipotence, and omniscience, that last attribute is not inconsistent with the two other attributes. Omniscience minus superstitious personification is also the logical home and aim of reason.

If omnipotence is taken away from the idea of God and we keep omniscience and omnibenevolence we are left with two perfectly consistent attributes for a reasonable and worthy god.

Those persons whose god combines only the attributes of omniscience and omnipotence are the political and antisocial forces many of them personified by those persons who stand accused by Greta Thunberg and you and me.

Thank you Devil's advocate.
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Sculptor1
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Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

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Consul wrote: September 23rd, 2019, 11:56 pm Here's a poor fella having a cluster-headache attack. (It's hard to watch.) When a theologian tells me that God might have justifying moral reasons for not releasing him from his agony, I'll tell him: Go fu#$ yourself!
After getting radiotherapy on my neck, I've suffered from trigeminal nerve sensitivity. It's a pig.
Imagine every tooth down one side having tooth ache, which stretches up towards the ear and back of the head with equal force.

But my best offer for the non existence of god, is the terratoma; a cancer in which an "evil" twin of yourself grows on your body. Sometimes around the eye, or gonads.
These little babies come with teeth, and hair.
terra.JPG
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Belindi
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Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post by Belindi »

Sculptor I am sorry and hope you will be all better.+
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Sy Borg
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Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post by Sy Borg »

Consul wrote: September 24th, 2019, 12:16 am
Greta wrote: September 24th, 2019, 12:08 amSo why should an entity of such scope and influence, give a fu#$ about someone's cluster headaches, or rape or torture or kidney stones, difficult birth or lack of compassionate euthanasia? Not to mention abortions or a person's sexuality or gender identity. It's all just details to a universal deity!
Simply because nobody is a good—let alone all-good—person unless s/he does care about the suffering of other persons!
Of course, if God exists and he is a sadistic devil, then the incompatibility disappears.
Deities do not make good persons just as people do not make good deities.

Are you a sadistic devil because you don't fret about the fates of your constituent cells and bacteria? You created them. You are their entire world. So why do you not come to their rescue when they are in trouble?
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Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Belindi wrote: September 24th, 2019, 7:57 am Sculptor I am sorry and hope you will be all better.+
Thanks.

The cancer (not terratoma BTW) is now 11 years ago. It was stage four neck cancer. The treatment was severe but successful. But there will not be an "all" better.

The consequent pain problems seem to be fading though, but from time to time I rely on very strong pain killers, and anti-inflammatory drugs which provide me a re-set, which can last for a week or so. There are a few other things, but I try not to worry.
Jklint
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Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post by Jklint »

God is the most singularly and unique non-entity people still talk and write about as if it were real ascribing all kinds of philosophies and qualities to a completely empty concept. Everything said about it is false except saying that it is false. It goes to show how mentally mutilated the human mind really is and in so many ways, a progression possibly first initialized in Homo Erectus before the aberration became manifest in Homo Sapiens. Ever since, humans have polluted themselves with a disease against which there seems to be no cure. Because it is Nothing anything can be said about it just like one can throw every kind of garbage into a massive empty hole.

When Shakespeare wrote Nothing will become of Nothing the converse of that is you can fill it with anything you imagine. An infinite empty set requires an equally empty concept of omnipresence and omniscience shortened to god to fill it.
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LuckyR
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Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post by LuckyR »

Sculptor1 wrote: September 24th, 2019, 7:43 am
Consul wrote: September 23rd, 2019, 11:56 pm Here's a poor fella having a cluster-headache attack. (It's hard to watch.) When a theologian tells me that God might have justifying moral reasons for not releasing him from his agony, I'll tell him: Go fu#$ yourself!
After getting radiotherapy on my neck, I've suffered from trigeminal nerve sensitivity. It's a pig.
Imagine every tooth down one side having tooth ache, which stretches up towards the ear and back of the head with equal force.

But my best offer for the non existence of god, is the terratoma; a cancer in which an "evil" twin of yourself grows on your body. Sometimes around the eye, or gonads.
These little babies come with teeth, and hair.
Mature teratomas are not a baby in the sense of being the product of a sperm and egg fusing. They are abnormalities of the gamete (egg) cell line. They also aren't cancerous. Malignant teratomas exist, but they don't have the teeth and hair that so fascinates folks whose experience consists of clicking on interesting titles on the margin of their browser.

There are abnormal pregnancies that are nothing at all like a "baby" that would frighten a lay person, but teratomas aren't pregnancies.
"As usual... it depends."
GaryLouisSmith
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Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post by GaryLouisSmith »

Jklint wrote: September 24th, 2019, 7:51 pm God is the most singularly and unique non-entity people still talk and write about as if it were real ascribing all kinds of philosophies and qualities to a completely empty concept. Everything said about it is false except saying that it is false. It goes to show how mentally mutilated the human mind really is and in so many ways, a progression possibly first initialized in Homo Erectus before the aberration became manifest in Homo Sapiens. Ever since, humans have polluted themselves with a disease against which there seems to be no cure. Because it is Nothing anything can be said about it just like one can throw every kind of garbage into a massive empty hole.

When Shakespeare wrote Nothing will become of Nothing the converse of that is you can fill it with anything you imagine. An infinite empty set requires an equally empty concept of omnipresence and omniscience shortened to god to fill it.
Are you saying that that massive empty hole, that Nothing, that false polluted mutilated thing doesn't exist? Even if that god doesn't exist, does he exist as a non-existent? And why do you think people just don't pay any attention to you? Are they just too aberrated? I think if they did listen and stopped believing, then you would be disappointed because you love to rant. And I love to listen.
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Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post by Jklint »

GaryLouisSmith wrote: September 24th, 2019, 10:00 pm
Jklint wrote: September 24th, 2019, 7:51 pm God is the most singularly and unique non-entity people still talk and write about as if it were real ascribing all kinds of philosophies and qualities to a completely empty concept. Everything said about it is false except saying that it is false. It goes to show how mentally mutilated the human mind really is and in so many ways, a progression possibly first initialized in Homo Erectus before the aberration became manifest in Homo Sapiens. Ever since, humans have polluted themselves with a disease against which there seems to be no cure. Because it is Nothing anything can be said about it just like one can throw every kind of garbage into a massive empty hole.

When Shakespeare wrote Nothing will become of Nothing the converse of that is you can fill it with anything you imagine. An infinite empty set requires an equally empty concept of omnipresence and omniscience shortened to god to fill it.
And why do you think people just don't pay any attention to you? Are they just too aberrated? I think if they did listen and stopped believing, then you would be disappointed because you love to rant. And I love to listen.
You sound upset! Why is that since I haven't responded to any of your posts? I just gave my opinion on a stupid useless idea called god. If you think it was a rant, I wouldn't know who I'd be ranting against; certainly not against a non-existent entity! In any event it's much easier not to be believe in a ludicrous concept than it is in the weird crap you write about which also explains why people find you interesting. They always respond to what seems objectionable or appears to be freaky and hardly ever to what is not. You obviously already figured out that funky crap which doesn't make sense gets the most responses and so you're hard at it. That's how it's always been on every forum. Nothing new here!

So I congratulate you on your success on eliciting responses! I'm sure there are enough intellectuals here :lol: of your caliber to oblige you for the next 100 pages.
Belindi
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Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post by Belindi »

I have wondered how GaryLouisSmith drums up a lot of responses. Me, I like my beliefs to be challenged in particular why I dislike the idea of Platonic Forms / essences.

Nonsense does challenge us to think because we like to make sense of the world,
Jklint says god is a stupid useless idea . Which god do you refer to Jklint? If you mean the god as a super powerful person with feelings and intentions I agree with you it's nonsense. If you mean god as ontic order the god is a good idea.I don't like Aristotle's final cause to be God's quality and it''s impossible to reconcile final cause with natural selection.

Nevertheless there is a place for god both rationally and practically. Modern scientists seek ontic orderedness. Men need a worthy icon.
Because it is Nothing anything can be said about it
(Jklint)

It's nothing until you or I make something of it. The quest for god should be armed with reason and uncertainty. Questers should not kowtow to authority. The god for existentialists is not an essence but a moving icon.
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Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post by GaryLouisSmith »

Jklint wrote: September 25th, 2019, 4:19 am
GaryLouisSmith wrote: September 24th, 2019, 10:00 pm

And why do you think people just don't pay any attention to you? Are they just too aberrated? I think if they did listen and stopped believing, then you would be disappointed because you love to rant. And I love to listen.
You sound upset! Why is that since I haven't responded to any of your posts? I just gave my opinion on a stupid useless idea called god. If you think it was a rant, I wouldn't know who I'd be ranting against; certainly not against a non-existent entity! In any event it's much easier not to be believe in a ludicrous concept than it is in the weird crap you write about which also explains why people find you interesting. They always respond to what seems objectionable or appears to be freaky and hardly ever to what is not. You obviously already figured out that funky crap which doesn't make sense gets the most responses and so you're hard at it. That's how it's always been on every forum. Nothing new here!

So I congratulate you on your success on eliciting responses! I'm sure there are enough intellectuals here :lol: of your caliber to oblige you for the next 100 pages.
No, I'm not upset. I'm just bored. Actually I do believe everything I write and it all comes out of some historical philosophy that I am currently thinking about. For example, the idea of an existent non-existent god comes out of the philosophy of Alexis Meinong, an important philosopher in the early analytic tradition. Also I really am a Platonic realist. It is true that I know most people on this forum know nothing about the history of philosophy, so I know that when I speak these ideas people will just think I am an idiot. It's fun. Just know that the "funky crap" I write are real ideas from the history of philosophy. I know that you will not understand anything I just said, but it was fun to write and I did it out of boredom. You can think anything you want out of it and I really don't care. I think you have greatly overestimated the number of responses I get. Only three or four and, like you, they all think I am stupid. Oh well.
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Jklint wrote: September 25th, 2019, 4:19 am You sound upset! Why is that since I haven't responded to any of your posts? I just gave my opinion on a stupid useless idea called god. If you think it was a rant, I wouldn't know who I'd be ranting against; certainly not against a non-existent entity!
It wasn't a rant, just an emotional outburst, a small collection of unjustified assertions. Unjustified as in 'offered without factual, logical or rational reason(s) to accept these assertions'.
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Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post by Jklint »

Jklint wrote: September 25th, 2019, 4:19 am You sound upset! Why is that since I haven't responded to any of your posts? I just gave my opinion on a stupid useless idea called god. If you think it was a rant, I wouldn't know who I'd be ranting against; certainly not against a non-existent entity! In any event it's much easier not to be believe in a ludicrous concept than it is in the weird crap you write about which also explains why people find you interesting. They always respond to what seems objectionable or appears to be freaky and hardly ever to what is not. You obviously already figured out that funky crap which doesn't make sense gets the most responses and so you're hard at it. That's how it's always been on every forum. Nothing new here!

So I congratulate you on your success on eliciting responses! I'm sure there are enough intellectuals here :lol: of your caliber to oblige you for the next 100 pages.
GaryLouisSmith wrote: September 25th, 2019, 5:26 amNo, I'm not upset. I'm just bored. Actually I do believe everything I write and it all comes out of some historical philosophy that I am currently thinking about. For example, the idea of an existent non-existent god comes out of the philosophy of Alexis Meinong, an important philosopher in the early analytic tradition. Also I really am a Platonic realist. It is true that I know most people on this forum know nothing about the history of philosophy, so I know that when I speak these ideas people will just think I am an idiot. It's fun. Just know that the "funky crap" I write are real ideas from the history of philosophy. I know that you will not understand anything I just said, but it was fun to write and I did it out of boredom. You can think anything you want out of it and I really don't care. I think you have greatly overestimated the number of responses I get. Only three or four and, like you, they all think I am stupid. Oh well.
I write a few sentences, a paragraph or two when I feel like it and that’s all; it doesn't take long. I don’t expect nor do I elicit responses because most them, including yours, amounts to absurdity which usually doesn’t even allude to what I wrote or completely ignores it...again, a common occurrence on philosophy forums. Also, I don’t think people find you stupid or an idiot; instead they find you interesting and a little perverse otherwise you wouldn’t receive as many replies as you do. You’re the kind of Pied Piper who knows how to lead them on. Boredom constantly needs new input to annul itself.

I haven’t lately responded to any of your posts. Neither am I interested in reading more of yours because, frankly your responses bore me. In fact, I’m most often bored receiving responses - mostly it’s not worth reading - and hope not to receive any from anyone being the most frustrating and ineffective way of killing time especially when one feels compelled to respond.

Stated bluntly, I welcome the silence and don’t wish to hear from you either and all your stupid rant accusations. I haven’t responded to your posts but you keep responding to mind. Do as others do...please ignore!
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Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post by Sculptor1 »

LuckyR wrote: September 24th, 2019, 8:18 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: September 24th, 2019, 7:43 am

After getting radiotherapy on my neck, I've suffered from trigeminal nerve sensitivity. It's a pig.
Imagine every tooth down one side having tooth ache, which stretches up towards the ear and back of the head with equal force.

But my best offer for the non existence of god, is the terratoma; a cancer in which an "evil" twin of yourself grows on your body. Sometimes around the eye, or gonads.
These little babies come with teeth, and hair.
Mature teratomas are not a baby in the sense of being the product of a sperm and egg fusing. They are abnormalities of the gamete (egg) cell line. They also aren't cancerous. Malignant teratomas exist, but they don't have the teeth and hair that so fascinates folks whose experience consists of clicking on interesting titles on the margin of their browser.

There are abnormal pregnancies that are nothing at all like a "baby" that would frighten a lay person, but teratomas aren't pregnancies.
Babies are not always the simple result of the sexual combination of germ cells. IN fact most reproduction in nature is asexual. A teratoma is more like "budding" which is a common enough method of reproduction in jelly fish and many plant species such as cacti.
Teratomas do IN FACT have teeth and hair can can grow from the eye of a adult, but often can the result of tumours growing directly from the gonads of children.

You ought to make some attempt to educate yourself if you are going to take the trouble to contradict a post.
Maybe you should start here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teratoma
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LuckyR
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Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post by LuckyR »

Sculptor1 wrote: September 25th, 2019, 5:04 pm
LuckyR wrote: September 24th, 2019, 8:18 pm

Mature teratomas are not a baby in the sense of being the product of a sperm and egg fusing. They are abnormalities of the gamete (egg) cell line. They also aren't cancerous. Malignant teratomas exist, but they don't have the teeth and hair that so fascinates folks whose experience consists of clicking on interesting titles on the margin of their browser.

There are abnormal pregnancies that are nothing at all like a "baby" that would frighten a lay person, but teratomas aren't pregnancies.
Babies are not always the simple result of the sexual combination of germ cells. IN fact most reproduction in nature is asexual. A teratoma is more like "budding" which is a common enough method of reproduction in jelly fish and many plant species such as cacti.
Teratomas do IN FACT have teeth and hair can can grow from the eye of a adult, but often can the result of tumours growing directly from the gonads of children.

You ought to make some attempt to educate yourself if you are going to take the trouble to contradict a post.
Maybe you should start here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teratoma
Uummm… I have removed teratomas professionally for the entirety of my career, don't need Wikipedia, but thanks.
"As usual... it depends."
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