If there is a God, why is there evil?

[Greatest I am]

Islam has the worse humanitarian policies in general use.
Second in evil only to Christianity.

I am always in the market for an alternative for pretty much anything. I have already replaced Windows by Linux but if something better than Linux comes along, then why not?

However, I am not going to use nothing at all.

As an individual, you become incredibly ineffective if you do not join a consensus with other individuals when the choice to make clearly has network effects.

Here "ineffective" = "disempowered".

The message is that, if people don't find a posse, they will be out-competed by the aligned. Get with the strength.

This is known as "selling your soul for power".

When the message is sound, the crowd gathers on it's own.

We are tribal by nature and do like fellowship, but as scriptures show, we should want to join the tribe so as to dominate it's thinking.

Our friend has decided to stop competing to be better than what he is.

In business, we call it reaching his level of incompetence.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Here "ineffective" = "disempowered".

The message is that, if people don't find a posse, they will be out-competed by the aligned. Get with the strength.

Yes, the situation is always Darwinian. Therefore, joining a consensus with other individuals is a key strategy. Whenever there are substantial network effects to be had, going it alone is unproductive.

This is known as "selling your soul for power".

I freely give my soul to God. If I don't, then my soul would soon truly belong to Nobody.

The twist is that the original Nobody, i.e. the original Nothing, is also something. It existed before the universe started expanding. It wants to come back. For that to happen, the universe has to disappear again. That is why the original Nothing attacks everything that exists. I do not blame the original Nothing for doing that, because it merely makes use of the first law, i.e. everything that exists has the right to resist its own disappearance.

If you do not join a consensus in faith, then all that the original Nothing has to do, is to manipulate and grab control over just a few individuals, and instruct them to get at you. They will seek to subvert and compel you to enter a Faustian pact, which is just another kind of consensus. Hence, instead of solving the problem, you will only have made the problem worse. The universe is a hostile place. If you do not defend yourself, things will inevitably go wrong.

That would be up to whatever God you refer to above. No?

This consensus of faith you speak of; does it include faith in a genocidal, homophobic and misogynous God?

That one is not yours is he?

Regards
DL

[heracleitos]

Take refuge in an atheist church.

Since atheism is not much of a consensus on anything, you are effectively on your own, disarmed and disorganized, waiting for the ruling mafia, or even an aggressive organized religion, to bully you off a cliff.

I reject individualism.

[Sy Borg]

Take refuge in an atheist church.

Since atheism is not much of a consensus on anything, you are effectively on your own, disarmed and disorganized, waiting for the ruling mafia, or even an aggressive organized religion, to bully you off a cliff.

I reject individualism.

Trouble is, the actual mafia - as in the former President who was mentored by a mafia lawyer and worked with the mafia, and his party - are great favourites of evangelical Christians.

THAT is the "mafia" coming for us, aiming to take away our freedoms. Secular society certainly does have challenges ahead due to the toxic and dangerous activities of ostensibly religious institutions (which are actually just political organisations using a religious front for tax breaks and a "moral" public face). These same religions routinely cover up for the sexual predators in their ranks.

[Greatest I am]

Take refuge in an atheist church.

Since atheism is not much of a consensus on anything, you are effectively on your own, disarmed and disorganized, waiting for the ruling mafia, or even an aggressive organized religion, to bully you off a cliff.

I reject individualism.

You reject what you are and loving yourself for it.

We are all in this together, alone.

If you do not know how to love yourself, how can you know how to love the many?

Regards
DL

[EricPH]

Take refuge in an atheist church.

Since atheism is not much of a consensus on anything, you are effectively on your own, disarmed and disorganized, waiting for the ruling mafia, or even an aggressive organized religion, to bully you off a cliff.

I reject individualism.

Trouble is, the actual mafia - as in the former President who was mentored by a mafia lawyer and worked with the mafia, and his party - are great favourites of evangelical Christians.

THAT is the "mafia" coming for us, aiming to take away our freedoms. Secular society certainly does have challenges ahead due to the toxic and dangerous activities of ostensibly religious institutions (which are actually just political organisations using a religious front for tax breaks and a "moral" public face). These same religions routinely cover up for the sexual predators in their ranks.

Evil happens and real justice rarely happens. If someone is murdered, they cannot be bought back to life here on Earth.
Only God can restore life in a greater good life after death.

[Sy Borg]

Take refuge in an atheist church.

Since atheism is not much of a consensus on anything, you are effectively on your own, disarmed and disorganized, waiting for the ruling mafia, or even an aggressive organized religion, to bully you off a cliff.

I reject individualism.

Trouble is, the actual mafia - as in the former President who was mentored by a mafia lawyer and worked with the mafia, and his party - are great favourites of evangelical Christians.

THAT is the "mafia" coming for us, aiming to take away our freedoms. Secular society certainly does have challenges ahead due to the toxic and dangerous activities of ostensibly religious institutions (which are actually just political organisations using a religious front for tax breaks and a "moral" public face). These same religions routinely cover up for the sexual predators in their ranks.

Evil happens and real justice rarely happens. If someone is murdered, they cannot be bought back to life here on Earth.
Only God can restore life in a greater good life after death.

Why do you believe in the deity of an Iron Age myth? Why that myth and not Islam or Buddhism or Taoism? Why don't you worship Odin or Zeus? They seem no less fantastic and imaginary than Yahweh and Allah.

[Belindi]

Take refuge in an atheist church.

Since atheism is not much of a consensus on anything, you are effectively on your own, disarmed and disorganized, waiting for the ruling mafia, or even an aggressive organized religion, to bully you off a cliff.

I reject individualism.

Trouble is, the actual mafia - as in the former President who was mentored by a mafia lawyer and worked with the mafia, and his party - are great favourites of evangelical Christians.

THAT is the "mafia" coming for us, aiming to take away our freedoms. Secular society certainly does have challenges ahead due to the toxic and dangerous activities of ostensibly religious institutions (which are actually just political organisations using a religious front for tax breaks and a "moral" public face). These same religions routinely cover up for the sexual predators in their ranks.

Evil happens and real justice rarely happens. If someone is murdered, they cannot be bought back to life here on Earth.
Only God can restore life in a greater good life after death.

But the greater good is contemporaneous with living experience during mortal lifetimes, albeit we can't access it.

[EricPH]

But the greater good is contemporaneous with living experience during mortal lifetimes, albeit we can't access it.

As much as we would like justice to happen in our lifetime, it rarely does. If there is no God, then every injustice that has happened up to now, remains unjust.

[Sy Borg]

But the greater good is contemporaneous with living experience during mortal lifetimes, albeit we can't access it.

As much as we would like justice to happen in our lifetime, it rarely does. If there is no God, then every injustice that has happened up to now, remains unjust.

Alas, your afterlife is a phantom - an ancient dream that persists due to the strength and persistence of evolved survival instincts.

Justice is more subtle and happens in real time. Those who commit injustices suffer from the the kind of person who commits injustices. Destructive individuals are not happy people. Many such people "live in hell", despite their affectations of happiness - being consumed with paranoia, fear, anger and hatred.

Happy people do not tend to be destructive.

[EricPH]

Happy people do not tend to be destructive.

Agreed, but if your child is murdered, you would still want justice. If the police never caught the killer, how do you remain happy at this injustice?

Ukraine comes to mind, we cannot begin to understand the injustice this nation is suffering. There can't be much happiness in Ukraine today.

If there is no God, there can be no real justice for these people.

[Sy Borg]

Happy people do not tend to be destructive.

Agreed, but if your child is murdered, you would still want justice. If the police never caught the killer, how do you remain happy at this injustice?

Ukraine comes to mind, we cannot begin to understand the injustice this nation is suffering. There can't be much happiness in Ukraine today.

If there is no God, there can be no real justice for these people.

Bingo! There is no justice.

Note that the perpetrators have to live with what they did. You might figure that psychopaths would be unaffected but, do you think psychopaths are happy? That they feel contentment? Psychopaths are actors who hide the intensity of their pain.

None of this is pleasant but civilisation is young and there are probably thousands of years of development ahead (with the occasional cataclysm, as has been the case throughout the Earth's history). Evidence is pointing to the eruption of Mt Toba 75k years ago that caused an ice age that wiped out most humans on the planet, and caused numerous extinctions of other species.

Ironically, I am secular but not biased enough to ignore the actual lessons that our ancient ancestors tried to teach us, in particular, the power of faith. The trick is to consider the metaphors in terms of the writers trying to pass on lessons in wisdom.

Faith in one's abilities, for instance, aka confidence, is obviously potent. A lack of confidence in sport, relationships or the arts can significantly limit one's potentials. I played in bands for a few decades and confidence on stage is critical.

There is another type of rational faith that has power - the power to prevent despair. Faith that humanity is currently is a long, long way from any kind of end product of evolution, and that future beings can be as much of a refinement of humans as humans have been refinements of their common Homo genus ancestor.

Let's face it, in a universe with approximately 2,000,000,000,000 galaxies 2,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars, and even more planets and moons, and about 40,000,000,000,000,000,000 black holes, if humans of 2022 are as good as it gets, then the universe is unbelievably inefficient, to the point of absurdity. And that's just the observable universe.

If, amongst all of the unbelievably complex edifices, Xi, Putin and would-be King Donald are the best the universe has to offer, then life, the universe and everything is nothing but a giant, cosmic shaggy dog joke. I don't think that is the case - I certainly hope not!

[Belindi]

But the greater good is contemporaneous with living experience during mortal lifetimes, albeit we can't access it.

As much as we would like justice to happen in our lifetime, it rarely does. If there is no God, then every injustice that has happened up to now, remains unjust.

Justice is lovely but it's a human concept. The greater good , unlike justice, can't be defined so the greater good cant be limited to any time sequence like life after death.

[GrayArea]

Because we define "good" wrong. Because the human definition of "good" is only what human beings approve. Thus it is finite and subjective to a set point of view within existence.

On the other hand, God approves existence itself, thus why he made it (If he exists, that is). To him, all of existence is the definition of "good". Everything good and evil to us must all be good to God.

This could also be why serving God is the good above all good when it comes to Christianity or Islam.

[Pelegrin_1]

Here's what I would ask: If there's a God, why is it so evil?