If there is a God, why is there evil?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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EagleEyes
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Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post by EagleEyes »

I think a better way to understand the question and subsequently arrive at a possible answer is to, ask. If there is 'existence' (God) why is some existence good and some evil. God cannot be good or evil unless he exists. We know we exist and we know we experience good and evil, so may be the answer is we are made in God's image and likeness. As an aspect of the deity in the question maybe we create our own good and evil existence just as God did in creating the Devil.
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Greatest I am
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Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

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Belindi wrote: January 1st, 2022, 8:05 am
Greatest I am wrote: December 31st, 2021, 12:58 pm
Belindi wrote: December 30th, 2021, 5:05 pm
Pattern-chaser wrote: December 30th, 2021, 12:48 pm

...or by God's???
For all we can know. Personally I choose not to believe in the sort of God that is intentional , like a living creature is intentional.
Then nature, that created and sustains you, should be what you hold as your highest ideal.

All that comes from nature is good, as she inadvertently creates for the best possible end of all that has life.

Regards
DL
No, because nature(not supernature)is what is the case . Nature is not an ideal. Ideals are embedded in nature but they are projections into unknown future of nature.
Too brief, especially your No.

No to what?

Seems we agree on nature despite the no, maybe, depending on WTF supernature is.

I think I agree with your last.

If you do not see nature as an ideal and best possible creator and sustainer for you, how would you improve on nature?

Remember that whatever you offer in improvement, all of us would need to want, as we are all a part of the evolving perfection we live.

Regards
DL
Belindi
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Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post by Belindi »

Greatest I am wrote: January 3rd, 2022, 5:39 pm
Belindi wrote: January 1st, 2022, 8:05 am
Greatest I am wrote: December 31st, 2021, 12:58 pm
Belindi wrote: December 30th, 2021, 5:05 pm

For all we can know. Personally I choose not to believe in the sort of God that is intentional , like a living creature is intentional.
Then nature, that created and sustains you, should be what you hold as your highest ideal.

All that comes from nature is good, as she inadvertently creates for the best possible end of all that has life.

Regards
DL
No, because nature(not supernature)is what is the case . Nature is not an ideal. Ideals are embedded in nature but they are projections into unknown future of nature.
Too brief, especially your No.

No to what?

Seems we agree on nature despite the no, maybe, depending on WTF supernature is.

I think I agree with your last.

If you do not see nature as an ideal and best possible creator and sustainer for you, how would you improve on nature?

Remember that whatever you offer in improvement, all of us would need to want, as we are all a part of the evolving perfection we live.

Regards
DL
Nature is what is the case, nature is imperative. However we don't know what is nature's imperative despite the advances of science. so we guess what nature was and will be. We can't improve on nature but we can try to harmonise with nature so as to continue to live.
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Sculptor1
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Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post by Sculptor1 »


There is evil because God is evil.


God also cruelly created good, to give false hope; to provide a contrast to make suffering and evil far more devastating.
God eeks out hope and goodness so that when the evil and suffering hit they are so much more horrible.
What would evil be like if evertything was pain? All things need a contrast. But the evil god makes sure that the balance is on the side of pain and suffering, and the helpless, meaninglessness of existence wins to the end of your life.
Then finally you die. If you die natually you will suffering pain. Humans try to allieviate pain and suffering especially in the last stages but nothing can sway the truth of the utter hoplessmess of a person's last moments.
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Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Belindi wrote: January 4th, 2022, 5:30 am
Greatest I am wrote: January 3rd, 2022, 5:39 pm
Belindi wrote: January 1st, 2022, 8:05 am
Greatest I am wrote: December 31st, 2021, 12:58 pm

Then nature, that created and sustains you, should be what you hold as your highest ideal.

All that comes from nature is good, as she inadvertently creates for the best possible end of all that has life.

Regards
DL
No, because nature(not supernature)is what is the case . Nature is not an ideal. Ideals are embedded in nature but they are projections into unknown future of nature.
Too brief, especially your No.

No to what?

Seems we agree on nature despite the no, maybe, depending on WTF supernature is.

I think I agree with your last.

If you do not see nature as an ideal and best possible creator and sustainer for you, how would you improve on nature?

Remember that whatever you offer in improvement, all of us would need to want, as we are all a part of the evolving perfection we live.

Regards
DL
Nature is what is the case, nature is imperative. However we don't know what is nature's imperative despite the advances of science. so we guess what nature was and will be. We can't improve on nature but we can try to harmonise with nature so as to continue to live.
If nature is what it is it needs no imperitave. Science just desribes, compares and quantifies. There is no harmonising with nature; you are I are nature too. Live or die we are part of it.
EricPH
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Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post by EricPH »

Greatest I am wrote: December 31st, 2021, 12:58 pm Then nature, that created and sustains you, should be what you hold as your highest ideal.
Natural causes cannot create life from no life.
All that comes from nature is good, as she inadvertently creates for the best possible end of all that has life.
Despite all the evil we witness today, you say all that comes from nature is good!
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Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post by Greatest I am »

Belindi wrote: January 4th, 2022, 5:30 am
Greatest I am wrote: January 3rd, 2022, 5:39 pm
Belindi wrote: January 1st, 2022, 8:05 am
Greatest I am wrote: December 31st, 2021, 12:58 pm

Then nature, that created and sustains you, should be what you hold as your highest ideal.

All that comes from nature is good, as she inadvertently creates for the best possible end of all that has life.

Regards
DL
No, because nature(not supernature)is what is the case . Nature is not an ideal. Ideals are embedded in nature but they are projections into unknown future of nature.
Too brief, especially your No.

No to what?

Seems we agree on nature despite the no, maybe, depending on WTF supernature is.

I think I agree with your last.

If you do not see nature as an ideal and best possible creator and sustainer for you, how would you improve on nature?

Remember that whatever you offer in improvement, all of us would need to want, as we are all a part of the evolving perfection we live.

Regards
DL
Nature is what is the case, nature is imperative. However we don't know what is nature's imperative despite the advances of science. so we guess what nature was and will be. We can't improve on nature but we can try to harmonise with nature so as to continue to live.
You are correct that nature cannot be improved.

We live in evolving perfection and most are too blind to recognize it.

I am not sure what you mean when you say natures imperative.

I do not think a non-sentient concept can have imperatives.

Please explain.

Regards
DL
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Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post by Greatest I am »

EricPH wrote: January 4th, 2022, 11:01 am
Greatest I am wrote: December 31st, 2021, 12:58 pm Then nature, that created and sustains you, should be what you hold as your highest ideal.
Natural causes cannot create life from no life.
All that comes from nature is good, as she inadvertently creates for the best possible end of all that has life.
Despite all the evil we witness today, you say all that comes from nature is good!
We still do not know how life is created, but you seem to be cock sure and must have studied no life a long time to know that life does not come out of it.

Where did you study?

Nowhere, --- where nothing is?

Have you compared the amount of god and evil in the human world that we do to each other?

Do you see more good than evil, or the opposite.

I see a tiny bit of evil and a lot of good, because if we did not have that bit of evil we would go extinct from not competing to find our fittest.

Check the stats before answering, because I have 200 years of them that show how fantastically we have improved over the years, on almost all markers for evil from death to poverty.

Regards
DL
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

EagleEyes wrote: January 1st, 2022, 4:29 pm I think a better way to understand the question and subsequently arrive at a possible answer is to, ask. If there is 'existence' (God) why is some existence good and some evil. God cannot be good or evil unless he exists. We know we exist and we know we experience good and evil, so may be the answer is we are made in God's image and likeness. As an aspect of the deity in the question maybe we create our own good and evil existence just as God did in creating the Devil.
She is neither good nor evil. Alternatively, She is both good and evil.

As for good and evil, it depends on how you look at it, and from what perspective. As a COVID virus, I would consider vaccination to be evil, you see?
Pattern-chaser

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Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post by Greatest I am »

Pattern-chaser wrote: January 4th, 2022, 1:40 pm
EagleEyes wrote: January 1st, 2022, 4:29 pm I think a better way to understand the question and subsequently arrive at a possible answer is to, ask. If there is 'existence' (God) why is some existence good and some evil. God cannot be good or evil unless he exists. We know we exist and we know we experience good and evil, so may be the answer is we are made in God's image and likeness. As an aspect of the deity in the question maybe we create our own good and evil existence just as God did in creating the Devil.
She is neither good nor evil. Alternatively, She is both good and evil.

As for good and evil, it depends on how you look at it, and from what perspective. As a COVID virus, I would consider vaccination to be evil, you see?
You would be wrong, as all life puts challenges to itself.

We are always competing against every other life.

Note how we have used our love of War, as the epitome of drama, the circuses we live for as Socrates would say, as our highest form competition.

That is how we challenge and stress ourselves to be more fit.

Regards
DL
Belindi
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Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post by Belindi »

Greatest I Am wrote:
I am not sure what you mean when you say natures imperative.
By "imperative" I refer to the fact that nature trumps all other claims to power.
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Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post by Greatest I am »

Belindi wrote: January 5th, 2022, 8:16 am Greatest I Am wrote:
I am not sure what you mean when you say natures imperative.
By "imperative" I refer to the fact that nature trumps all other claims to power.
Which is why I think nature should be the only power we should venerate and elevate.

Nature is our creator and sustainer.

Regards
DL
EricPH
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Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post by EricPH »

Greatest I am wrote: January 4th, 2022, 3:19 pm
Note how we have used our love of War, as the epitome of drama, the circuses we live for as Socrates would say, as our highest form competition.

That is how we challenge and stress ourselves to be more fit.

The trillions we spend on war could end poverty. The hundreds of billions spent on dieting could help the hungry. The way we compete is sick and wrong.
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Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post by Greatest I am »

EricPH wrote: January 5th, 2022, 2:41 pm
Greatest I am wrote: January 4th, 2022, 3:19 pm
Note how we have used our love of War, as the epitome of drama, the circuses we live for as Socrates would say, as our highest form competition.

That is how we challenge and stress ourselves to be more fit.

The trillions we spend on war could end poverty. The hundreds of billions spent on dieting could help the hungry. The way we compete is sick and wrong.
Yet statistically, most markers we see as evil, are are record levels, on the good side.

If you have a better way, sell it to the masses.

I do not know how to get mass coverage on anything like what you have, but if you have a way, I have a marketing background and will help.

Yes there is more good works to aim for, but things are good.

Regards
DL
Belindi
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Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post by Belindi »

Greatest I am wrote: January 5th, 2022, 12:35 pm
Belindi wrote: January 5th, 2022, 8:16 am Greatest I Am wrote:
I am not sure what you mean when you say natures imperative.
By "imperative" I refer to the fact that nature trumps all other claims to power.
Which is why I think nature should be the only power we should venerate and elevate.

Nature is our creator and sustainer.

Regards
DL
Yes, but human hopes and visions for the future are also natural. Even religions are natural. Even the worst human beings are natural. I doubt if you venerate cruel men.
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