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A meeting with the Eternal

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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jb
Posts: 33
Joined: July 4th, 2008, 11:42 am

A meeting with the Eternal

Post by jb » July 4th, 2008, 12:34 pm

Hi,
Below an article - on a 'happening' -
I have written sometime ago,
in case of interest.
(it has been published in subject-related magazine) -
Regards,
jb

*

A meeting with the Eternal

Many years ago I was walking down the street in a quiet area of the town. It was sunny
and the gardens were green. There was a certain awareness and sensitivity. Then suddenly,
as though new senses were
opening, the presence of the eternal was there.

The word `eternal' was not the outcome of conclusive reasoning or evaluation, as when
you look at the skies and think "this universe must be infinite and must have always
been there" and then see it according to the conceptual conclusion. It was rather like
tasting
honey and later calling it `sweet' for the sake of communication. Nevertheless, the mind
could exclaim with wonder: "Goodness me! There is something that corresponds to the word
`eternal'!"

The body was like a fish in this ocean of multi-directional energy and indestructible,
immense space, something self-sustained, completely independent and containing every
sound and being. `My' identity was that and, therefore, no fear. I was not feeling `high
'and it was not an `experience'. (Only on that day did I see what J. Krishnamurti meant
by the mind-boggling statement that you cannot experience Truth.)

It was not a momentary flash of `insight' or a psychosomatic, merely personal intensity;
it was a `standing outside 'of that field, as the word `ecstasy' implies. `I' felt like
a baby learning to crawl, to walk. My `identity' could move from being responsible as a
`body-person' soberly relating to another (much more sober, sane, factual than in the
`normal' state) to being that endless expanse of living space.
And it was there the whole day.

For a moment a fearful thought arose: "What if it will disappear?"
The answer was instantaneous: "It is obvious that it has always been here and it will
always be here and everywhere, regardless of whether the perception of it closes its
doors or not".
The following day it was `gone'.

Seeing that it was not the result or creation of an ambitious ego and that it had nothing
to do with `me', there was no regret or despair upon its `ending'. The `me' naturally
confessed its `impotence' in the face of this immensity and `prostrated', not
emotionally but as a matter of fact, before it.

Yes, it was a rare jewel, the only eternal jewel, unending Life itself...

Perhaps it was a gift. And yet at times I wonder: "What was the point, significance of
one day lived in Eternity followed by its `disappearance'? Was there anything of lasting
value in this event?
Perhaps, perhaps not.”

As for its `re-appearance', as far as I know the mere memory of it and the efforts
motivated by this memory can never re-discover or re-produce it. It is not a product. The
event cannot be used. And yet there it was!

But now that ‘I' am back, I cannot help asking myself on occasion: "This interest you
have in knowing yourself, is it not motivated by this remembrance?"
I would say no. It is more like what K. once said, to the effect that a really interested
man who approaches life simply and is aware of suffering, asks whether there is a
different way to live.

JB.

nameless
Posts: 1234
Joined: May 13th, 2008, 9:06 pm
Location: Here/Now

Post by nameless » July 5th, 2008, 7:16 am

....
Last edited by nameless on July 17th, 2008, 4:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

haribol acharya
Posts: 22
Joined: July 5th, 2008, 10:53 am

Re: A meeting with the Eternal

Post by haribol acharya » July 5th, 2008, 11:14 am

jb wrote:Hi,
Below an article - on a 'happening' -
I have written sometime ago,
in case of interest.
(it has been published in subject-related magazine) -
Regards,
jb

*

A meeting with the Eternal

Many years ago I was walking down the street in a quiet area of the town. It was sunny
and the gardens were green. There was a certain awareness and sensitivity. Then suddenly,
as though new senses were
opening, the presence of the eternal was there.

The word `eternal' was not the outcome of conclusive reasoning or evaluation, as when
you look at the skies and think "this universe must be infinite and must have always
been there" and then see it according to the conceptual conclusion. It was rather like
tasting
honey and later calling it `sweet' for the sake of communication. Nevertheless, the mind
could exclaim with wonder: "Goodness me! There is something that corresponds to the word
`eternal'!"

The body was like a fish in this ocean of multi-directional energy and indestructible,
immense space, something self-sustained, completely independent and containing every
sound and being. `My' identity was that and, therefore, no fear. I was not feeling `high
'and it was not an `experience'. (Only on that day did I see what J. Krishnamurti meant
by the mind-boggling statement that you cannot experience Truth.)

It was not a momentary flash of `insight' or a psychosomatic, merely personal intensity;
it was a `standing outside 'of that field, as the word `ecstasy' implies. `I' felt like
a baby learning to crawl, to walk. My `identity' could move from being responsible as a
`body-person' soberly relating to another (much more sober, sane, factual than in the
`normal' state) to being that endless expanse of living space.
And it was there the whole day.

For a moment a fearful thought arose: "What if it will disappear?"
The answer was instantaneous: "It is obvious that it has always been here and it will
always be here and everywhere, regardless of whether the perception of it closes its
doors or not".
The following day it was `gone'.

Seeing that it was not the result or creation of an ambitious ego and that it had nothing
to do with `me', there was no regret or despair upon its `ending'. The `me' naturally
confessed its `impotence' in the face of this immensity and `prostrated', not
emotionally but as a matter of fact, before it.

Yes, it was a rare jewel, the only eternal jewel, unending Life itself...

Perhaps it was a gift. And yet at times I wonder: "What was the point, significance of
one day lived in Eternity followed by its `disappearance'? Was there anything of lasting
value in this event?
Perhaps, perhaps not.”

As for its `re-appearance', as far as I know the mere memory of it and the efforts
motivated by this memory can never re-discover or re-produce it. It is not a product. The
event cannot be used. And yet there it was!

But now that ‘I' am back, I cannot help asking myself on occasion: "This interest you
have in knowing yourself, is it not motivated by this remembrance?"
I would say no. It is more like what K. once said, to the effect that a really interested
man who approaches life simply and is aware of suffering, asks whether there is a
different way to live.

JB.
In point of fact I am thrilled at sharing the feeling with you. You too are a creature in miniature.

I too have undergone some experiences in life, indeed ecstatic experiences in life, but such experiences can not be worded or phrased in an ordinary sense. Such experiences are likened to flashlights and you will see it and immediately they vanish. Where? We can not say.

Anyway I am really elated to share with you or reading yours I can relive the moment.

On this thread this is my first start and I began with this one of all for a simple reason that it touched me beyond words. I do not know how will you take my response.

jb
Posts: 33
Joined: July 4th, 2008, 11:42 am

Post by jb » July 11th, 2008, 10:35 am

Hello haribol acharya,
and thanks for the feedback...
glad you found something of value in the communication.
Your feedback... quite different from that of 'Nameless' and his intensely aggressive, biased and hateful style, of wanting to Control another.
All the best on your journey,
jb

nameless
Posts: 1234
Joined: May 13th, 2008, 9:06 pm
Location: Here/Now

Post by nameless » July 12th, 2008, 12:23 am

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Belinda
Contributor
Posts: 13760
Joined: July 10th, 2008, 7:02 pm
Location: UK

Post by Belinda » July 14th, 2008, 5:31 pm

jb, was there a correlate of this mystical experience in your brain? Actually I view this topic as a branch of psychology, not philosophy.

However, there is doubt about the philosophical status of mystical experiences, because, even although it could be shown that there is a very high probability that mystical experience abc would always be correlated with brain event pqr this in itself does not disqualify mystical experience abc as valid knowledge about the content of the mystical experience . In the case that you described the content was eternity.

The trouble is that the word eternity does not always refer to the same concept. Your description of the experience was imprecise and insufficiently analysed. To get away with describing an experience of eternity without special psychological jargon, you need to make poetry as splendid as Wordsworth's.

jb
Posts: 33
Joined: July 4th, 2008, 11:42 am

Post by jb » July 16th, 2008, 12:35 pm

jb:
Hello Belinda,
see my comments within the quotation of your message.
But first my conclusion: the more one knows - conceptual/analytical knowledge - and one sticks to it, the less one can actualy know. A mind filled with concepts, is a confused mind, which believes that explanatory foot-notes, are necessary, in order to understand.
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Belinda wrote: Belinda: jb, was there a correlate of this mystical experience in your brain? Actually I view this topic as a branch of psychology, not philosophy.

jb:
'correlate', 'branch' does not apply.
There was a perception, but not of the brain. The brain just served the verbal communication.

Belinda: However, there is doubt about the philosophical status of mystical experiences, because, even although it could be shown that there is a very high probability that mystical experience abc would always be correlated with brain event pqr this in itself does not disqualify mystical experience abc as valid knowledge about the content of the mystical experience . In the case that you described the content was eternity.

jb:
yes, 'doubt, probability, validity' are brain activities... the field of 'the known'. I would suggest you read the other post entitled 'change beyond the movement of thought'.

B: The trouble is that the word eternity does not always refer to the same concept.

jb:
yes, and the more 'concepts', the greater the confusion, and the Noise within the Tower of Babel. Not so?

B: Your description of the experience was imprecise and insufficiently analysed.

jb:
Dear Belinda, with all respect... it is the arrogance of the limitted human mind that -believes- that everything can be 'analyzed'. And after all, your nalysis might be different from xyz's.
So where is your approach leading?
"Insufficiently..."... according to Whom...
Whose brain's contents.

B: To get away with describing an experience of eternity without special psychological jargon, you need to make poetry as splendid as Wordsworth's.

jb:
"to get away with...", if I may suggest is an expression of a conditioned brain, deluding itself, into being an Absolute Authority... in this case on Eternity. Not so? -
No, one does not need any specialized jargon... the one we already have is a confusing enough matrix, which _obviously_ makes the communication/sharing of the Seeing, and impossibility.
To discover anything New, one has to first See one's ideational/conceptual matrix one is caught in, and by Actually seeing the limitations of Knowledge, being free to Listen and Look.
There is a Simplicity, which, cannot come into being and is killed even before its birth, as long as the brain is addicted and proud of its knowledge.
It is a matter of Seeing, the false as the false, and so the true as the true... i.e. things as they are. But, apparently, our minds, are Too Complicated for seeing/Hearing simple facts... everything perceived is churned, translated, interpretted and filtered thru the brain's arsenal of knowledge.

As for... only if my message was of the caliber of Woodsworth's poetry... I could have "gotten away with it"... - you mena that you yourslef, would have possibly accepted the experience as valid.
Correct?

And are you certain that, only poetry would be a proof of whether something is genuine or not?
After all, -what- is 'poetry'?

...And Belinda, it is ok that you have apparently analyzed my experience as 'most probably False', but hopefully you did -not- analyze it into projecting an image unto 'jb', that he is after getting attention or wows or agreements.
As I have said... it was Not a personal 'experience', so whatever the response to it, i have nothing to lose/gain by it. I hope that is clear.

I _do not_ desire/need nor search for anyone, to believe that what I communicated - thru this limitted (non-Woodswothian-verbalization... sorry, I am not from an English speaking country) - .. that it is genuine.

The 'experience' does seem to tally however, with J. Krishnamurti's pointer to What-Is, beyond the ever-limitted Knowledge within the brain.

A pleasant day to you,
jb
''''''''''''''''''''''''

jb
Posts: 33
Joined: July 4th, 2008, 11:42 am

Post by jb » July 17th, 2008, 1:00 pm

Hi Belinda,
you wrote:
"Actually I view this topic as a branch of psychology, not philosophy."
Do you mena that philosophy does not concern itself with such questions/inquiries as:
-who am I?
-is there a source/ground of being?
-'know thyself'
-is there any meaning with life?

Surely, philosophy is saturated with these inquiries.
If philosophy is not relevant to life, if its reflections/inquiries are only plays of concepts, imageries, categorizing, and brain-cells gymnastics, then it is not much worth to the human being - apart from its being a stimulating hobby - is it?

Since I got no response from you to my previous mail, I shall now stop my monologue.
Regards,
jb

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