Is this book a turning point?

Use this forum to discuss the July 2021 Philosophy Book of the Month Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure by Sylvie Beljanski
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LuckyR
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Re: Is this book a turning point?

Post by LuckyR »

Sushan wrote: July 15th, 2021, 12:48 pm
LuckyR wrote: July 12th, 2021, 2:03 pm
Sushan wrote: July 12th, 2021, 7:29 am
LuckyR wrote: July 9th, 2021, 2:38 am

Uummm... if that were true antibiotics wouldn't exist, neither would surgery. Flawed logic on it's face.
Antibiotics were not initially man made. It was a creation of the nature for the protection of the bacterias. People could extract them, study them and reproduce them. And now we have commercially available antibiotics. Antibiotics can eradicate various infections, but can they do it always?

Surgery was a practice that was available for more than thousand years. It has been developed throughout the history and has come to today's level. But can surgery cure everything?
Well according to the "logic" some invoke, the Big Pharma international conspiracy group would suppress antibiotics since penicillin cures strept throat and the conspirators can make more money selling cough syrup again and again. Similarly Big Pharma would have conspired to make appendectomies illegal since that cures appendicitis in 30 minutes whereas they could sell pain medicine for weeks in it's absence.

Follow the money, obvious, right?

Does that make sense to anyone?
We are still using oral penicillin for various infections, but now we are using advance antibiotics more frequently as the bacteria are getting resistant to traditional antibiotics. Can these Big Pharma can create such resistant bacteria? I think so. Think about the accusation that China gets telling that they created the Corona virus.

When we come to appendisectomy, it is a common, simple surgery which has been performed for years by many doctors and that is why it does not have a big name like "Hartman's procedure". I do not know from where this banning idea for such routine surgeries came. But if we think about the theory of following money, even this sort of routine surgeries are made more sophisticated for the comfort of the patient, but with more expenses from the patient.
No one, including me, argues that Pharmaceutical companies aren't interested in making extra money. That's one thing. I'm not talking about that truism.

Rather I am addressing specifically the nonsensical conspiracy theory type that this or that difficult or impossible problem is actually quite easy to solve except that this or that Powerful Company has suppressed the easy solution because Powerful Company can make more money with older technology that addresses but doesn't solve the problem.

In the back of magazines anyone can buy a $20 gizmo that can make your car get 200 miles per gallon, but the Powerful Oil Industry has suppressed the technology (of course no one mentions that the quite powerful automobile industry would love this tech and somehow can't get it but you can get it from an ad in the back of a magazine). Similarly, the greatest minds can only make small incremental improvements in cancer treatment, but a nobody in Arizona can cure all cancer with baking soda and vitamin C.

Anyone interested in buying a bridge? I'm a Nigerian prince. No seriously I am.
"As usual... it depends."
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Sushan
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Re: Is this book a turning point?

Post by Sushan »

LuckyR wrote: July 16th, 2021, 1:26 am
Sushan wrote: July 15th, 2021, 12:48 pm
LuckyR wrote: July 12th, 2021, 2:03 pm
Sushan wrote: July 12th, 2021, 7:29 am

Antibiotics were not initially man made. It was a creation of the nature for the protection of the bacterias. People could extract them, study them and reproduce them. And now we have commercially available antibiotics. Antibiotics can eradicate various infections, but can they do it always?

Surgery was a practice that was available for more than thousand years. It has been developed throughout the history and has come to today's level. But can surgery cure everything?
Well according to the "logic" some invoke, the Big Pharma international conspiracy group would suppress antibiotics since penicillin cures strept throat and the conspirators can make more money selling cough syrup again and again. Similarly Big Pharma would have conspired to make appendectomies illegal since that cures appendicitis in 30 minutes whereas they could sell pain medicine for weeks in it's absence.

Follow the money, obvious, right?

Does that make sense to anyone?
We are still using oral penicillin for various infections, but now we are using advance antibiotics more frequently as the bacteria are getting resistant to traditional antibiotics. Can these Big Pharma can create such resistant bacteria? I think so. Think about the accusation that China gets telling that they created the Corona virus.

When we come to appendisectomy, it is a common, simple surgery which has been performed for years by many doctors and that is why it does not have a big name like "Hartman's procedure". I do not know from where this banning idea for such routine surgeries came. But if we think about the theory of following money, even this sort of routine surgeries are made more sophisticated for the comfort of the patient, but with more expenses from the patient.
No one, including me, argues that Pharmaceutical companies aren't interested in making extra money. That's one thing. I'm not talking about that truism.

Rather I am addressing specifically the nonsensical conspiracy theory type that this or that difficult or impossible problem is actually quite easy to solve except that this or that Powerful Company has suppressed the easy solution because Powerful Company can make more money with older technology that addresses but doesn't solve the problem.

In the back of magazines anyone can buy a $20 gizmo that can make your car get 200 miles per gallon, but the Powerful Oil Industry has suppressed the technology (of course no one mentions that the quite powerful automobile industry would love this tech and somehow can't get it but you can get it from an ad in the back of a magazine). Similarly, the greatest minds can only make small incremental improvements in cancer treatment, but a nobody in Arizona can cure all cancer with baking soda and vitamin C.

Anyone interested in buying a bridge? I'm a Nigerian prince. No seriously I am.
I do not say every advertisement is true, and it seems hilarious when a simple gadget can do (claims so) marvellous things which even large companies with big budgets on R&D cannot do. But there are occasions that simple inventions do big things which are not made by big companies but by mere individuals. Probably such situations are due to the large profit that can be obtained by the large companies without inventing such new things. I think both sides of this argument can be applied to medicine as well, and seemingly this author is claiming for such a thing.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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LuckyR
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Re: Is this book a turning point?

Post by LuckyR »

Sushan wrote: July 17th, 2021, 12:01 am
LuckyR wrote: July 16th, 2021, 1:26 am
Sushan wrote: July 15th, 2021, 12:48 pm
LuckyR wrote: July 12th, 2021, 2:03 pm

Well according to the "logic" some invoke, the Big Pharma international conspiracy group would suppress antibiotics since penicillin cures strept throat and the conspirators can make more money selling cough syrup again and again. Similarly Big Pharma would have conspired to make appendectomies illegal since that cures appendicitis in 30 minutes whereas they could sell pain medicine for weeks in it's absence.

Follow the money, obvious, right?

Does that make sense to anyone?
We are still using oral penicillin for various infections, but now we are using advance antibiotics more frequently as the bacteria are getting resistant to traditional antibiotics. Can these Big Pharma can create such resistant bacteria? I think so. Think about the accusation that China gets telling that they created the Corona virus.

When we come to appendisectomy, it is a common, simple surgery which has been performed for years by many doctors and that is why it does not have a big name like "Hartman's procedure". I do not know from where this banning idea for such routine surgeries came. But if we think about the theory of following money, even this sort of routine surgeries are made more sophisticated for the comfort of the patient, but with more expenses from the patient.
No one, including me, argues that Pharmaceutical companies aren't interested in making extra money. That's one thing. I'm not talking about that truism.

Rather I am addressing specifically the nonsensical conspiracy theory type that this or that difficult or impossible problem is actually quite easy to solve except that this or that Powerful Company has suppressed the easy solution because Powerful Company can make more money with older technology that addresses but doesn't solve the problem.

In the back of magazines anyone can buy a $20 gizmo that can make your car get 200 miles per gallon, but the Powerful Oil Industry has suppressed the technology (of course no one mentions that the quite powerful automobile industry would love this tech and somehow can't get it but you can get it from an ad in the back of a magazine). Similarly, the greatest minds can only make small incremental improvements in cancer treatment, but a nobody in Arizona can cure all cancer with baking soda and vitamin C.

Anyone interested in buying a bridge? I'm a Nigerian prince. No seriously I am.
I do not say every advertisement is true, and it seems hilarious when a simple gadget can do (claims so) marvellous things which even large companies with big budgets on R&D cannot do. But there are occasions that simple inventions do big things which are not made by big companies but by mere individuals. Probably such situations are due to the large profit that can be obtained by the large companies without inventing such new things. I think both sides of this argument can be applied to medicine as well, and seemingly this author is claiming for such a thing.
A fool and his money are soon parted.
"As usual... it depends."
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Sushan
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Re: Is this book a turning point?

Post by Sushan »

LuckyR wrote: July 17th, 2021, 3:58 am
Sushan wrote: July 17th, 2021, 12:01 am
LuckyR wrote: July 16th, 2021, 1:26 am
Sushan wrote: July 15th, 2021, 12:48 pm

We are still using oral penicillin for various infections, but now we are using advance antibiotics more frequently as the bacteria are getting resistant to traditional antibiotics. Can these Big Pharma can create such resistant bacteria? I think so. Think about the accusation that China gets telling that they created the Corona virus.

When we come to appendisectomy, it is a common, simple surgery which has been performed for years by many doctors and that is why it does not have a big name like "Hartman's procedure". I do not know from where this banning idea for such routine surgeries came. But if we think about the theory of following money, even this sort of routine surgeries are made more sophisticated for the comfort of the patient, but with more expenses from the patient.
No one, including me, argues that Pharmaceutical companies aren't interested in making extra money. That's one thing. I'm not talking about that truism.

Rather I am addressing specifically the nonsensical conspiracy theory type that this or that difficult or impossible problem is actually quite easy to solve except that this or that Powerful Company has suppressed the easy solution because Powerful Company can make more money with older technology that addresses but doesn't solve the problem.

In the back of magazines anyone can buy a $20 gizmo that can make your car get 200 miles per gallon, but the Powerful Oil Industry has suppressed the technology (of course no one mentions that the quite powerful automobile industry would love this tech and somehow can't get it but you can get it from an ad in the back of a magazine). Similarly, the greatest minds can only make small incremental improvements in cancer treatment, but a nobody in Arizona can cure all cancer with baking soda and vitamin C.

Anyone interested in buying a bridge? I'm a Nigerian prince. No seriously I am.
I do not say every advertisement is true, and it seems hilarious when a simple gadget can do (claims so) marvellous things which even large companies with big budgets on R&D cannot do. But there are occasions that simple inventions do big things which are not made by big companies but by mere individuals. Probably such situations are due to the large profit that can be obtained by the large companies without inventing such new things. I think both sides of this argument can be applied to medicine as well, and seemingly this author is claiming for such a thing.
A fool and his money are soon parted.
A fool may not be able to retain whatever the amount of money that he/she has. But here we are not talking about fools, but intelligent entrepreneurs who can manipulate the markets. Among them some may only have thoughts on profits but some may have thoughts on actually serving the humankind. Whether of use or not I do not see any harm in giving a chance to such ideas.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Sculptor1
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Re: Is this book a turning point?

Post by Sculptor1 »

This book like thousands of others will end up on the remainers list. Many copies will be sold at a 60% discount, then 80% discount, until what remians of the print run will end up pulped or burned, but hopefully recycled into something more useful like fish and chip cartons.
There are so many quackery books like this sold to the gullible.
I think the worst tragedy is the possibility that the author actually believes in what she writes.
My fondest hope is two fold; first, that this book will not cause the death of any cancer victim that has refused standard and proven treatment regimes in the light of what they have read here. Secondly, that one day people will see through her 50 Euro a-pop skin cream scam, and just use something natural like lanolin or coconut oil.
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Sushan
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Re: Is this book a turning point?

Post by Sushan »

Sculptor1 wrote: July 19th, 2021, 6:10 am This book like thousands of others will end up on the remainers list. Many copies will be sold at a 60% discount, then 80% discount, until what remians of the print run will end up pulped or burned, but hopefully recycled into something more useful like fish and chip cartons.
There are so many quackery books like this sold to the gullible.
I think the worst tragedy is the possibility that the author actually believes in what she writes.
My fondest hope is two fold; first, that this book will not cause the death of any cancer victim that has refused standard and proven treatment regimes in the light of what they have read here. Secondly, that one day people will see through her 50 Euro a-pop skin cream scam, and just use something natural like lanolin or coconut oil.
I see that you completely disagree with this book and think that it is of no use. I do not say that is wrong as anyone can have their own opinion. At the same time I think the author has the same right to convey her opinions, and I personally believe that she has not written this book with any malicious intentions. Amd it is up to the readers to accept or decline what is mentioned there, and it is up to the patients to make their own decisions on which treatment modality they will undergo. If they are wrongly informed prior to making that decision, then that is wrong. But I do not think that this author has done something like that since she is not making the patients to reject the conventional treatments, but to use her natural remedies as supplements.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Sculptor1
Posts: 3986
Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: Is this book a turning point?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Sushan wrote: July 20th, 2021, 1:17 am
Sculptor1 wrote: July 19th, 2021, 6:10 am This book like thousands of others will end up on the remainers list. Many copies will be sold at a 60% discount, then 80% discount, until what remians of the print run will end up pulped or burned, but hopefully recycled into something more useful like fish and chip cartons.
There are so many quackery books like this sold to the gullible.
I think the worst tragedy is the possibility that the author actually believes in what she writes.
My fondest hope is two fold; first, that this book will not cause the death of any cancer victim that has refused standard and proven treatment regimes in the light of what they have read here. Secondly, that one day people will see through her 50 Euro a-pop skin cream scam, and just use something natural like lanolin or coconut oil.
I see that you completely disagree with this book and think that it is of no use. I do not say that is wrong as anyone can have their own opinion. At the same time I think the author has the same right to convey her opinions, and I personally believe that she has not written this book with any malicious intentions. Amd it is up to the readers to accept or decline what is mentioned there, and it is up to the patients to make their own decisions on which treatment modality they will undergo. If they are wrongly informed prior to making that decision, then that is wrong. But I do not think that this author has done something like that since she is not making the patients to reject the conventional treatments, but to use her natural remedies as supplements.
I'm not trying to censor anyone. Even flat earthers have a right to their own opinions. I just think it is important to call out quackery.
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Sushan
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Re: Is this book a turning point?

Post by Sushan »

Sculptor1 wrote: July 20th, 2021, 4:32 am
Sushan wrote: July 20th, 2021, 1:17 am
Sculptor1 wrote: July 19th, 2021, 6:10 am This book like thousands of others will end up on the remainers list. Many copies will be sold at a 60% discount, then 80% discount, until what remians of the print run will end up pulped or burned, but hopefully recycled into something more useful like fish and chip cartons.
There are so many quackery books like this sold to the gullible.
I think the worst tragedy is the possibility that the author actually believes in what she writes.
My fondest hope is two fold; first, that this book will not cause the death of any cancer victim that has refused standard and proven treatment regimes in the light of what they have read here. Secondly, that one day people will see through her 50 Euro a-pop skin cream scam, and just use something natural like lanolin or coconut oil.
I see that you completely disagree with this book and think that it is of no use. I do not say that is wrong as anyone can have their own opinion. At the same time I think the author has the same right to convey her opinions, and I personally believe that she has not written this book with any malicious intentions. Amd it is up to the readers to accept or decline what is mentioned there, and it is up to the patients to make their own decisions on which treatment modality they will undergo. If they are wrongly informed prior to making that decision, then that is wrong. But I do not think that this author has done something like that since she is not making the patients to reject the conventional treatments, but to use her natural remedies as supplements.
I'm not trying to censor anyone. Even flat earthers have a right to their own opinions. I just think it is important to call out quackery.
We can listen to the theories of f'lat earthers', but we do not have to accept them. And this is true to medical facts and hypotheses as well.

Yes, it is important to call out quackery. But I won't be hastened to call this quackery since the author is showing the availability of research data to prove what she says. And I do not think a sane lawyer will start something that he/she will loose at the end.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Sculptor1
Posts: 3986
Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: Is this book a turning point?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Sushan wrote: July 22nd, 2021, 12:36 am
Sculptor1 wrote: July 20th, 2021, 4:32 am
Sushan wrote: July 20th, 2021, 1:17 am
Sculptor1 wrote: July 19th, 2021, 6:10 am This book like thousands of others will end up on the remainers list. Many copies will be sold at a 60% discount, then 80% discount, until what remians of the print run will end up pulped or burned, but hopefully recycled into something more useful like fish and chip cartons.
There are so many quackery books like this sold to the gullible.
I think the worst tragedy is the possibility that the author actually believes in what she writes.
My fondest hope is two fold; first, that this book will not cause the death of any cancer victim that has refused standard and proven treatment regimes in the light of what they have read here. Secondly, that one day people will see through her 50 Euro a-pop skin cream scam, and just use something natural like lanolin or coconut oil.
I see that you completely disagree with this book and think that it is of no use. I do not say that is wrong as anyone can have their own opinion. At the same time I think the author has the same right to convey her opinions, and I personally believe that she has not written this book with any malicious intentions. Amd it is up to the readers to accept or decline what is mentioned there, and it is up to the patients to make their own decisions on which treatment modality they will undergo. If they are wrongly informed prior to making that decision, then that is wrong. But I do not think that this author has done something like that since she is not making the patients to reject the conventional treatments, but to use her natural remedies as supplements.
I'm not trying to censor anyone. Even flat earthers have a right to their own opinions. I just think it is important to call out quackery.
We can listen to the theories of f'lat earthers', but we do not have to accept them. And this is true to medical facts and hypotheses as well.

Yes, it is important to call out quackery. But I won't be hastened to call this quackery since the author is showing the availability of research data to prove what she says. And I do not think a sane lawyer will start something that he/she will loose at the end.
Oh please! Just take a look at her own website and tell me what you see.
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