What will the sceptics say?

Use this forum to discuss the July 2021 Philosophy Book of the Month Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure by Sylvie Beljanski
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Sculptor1
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Re: What will the sceptics say?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Sushan wrote: July 4th, 2021, 4:57 am
... but has been crushed by the jealousy of the sceptics. ...
It's quite a worn out trope that one.
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Sushan
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Re: What will the sceptics say?

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Sculptor1 wrote: July 20th, 2021, 4:31 am
Sushan wrote: July 20th, 2021, 12:59 am
Sculptor1 wrote: July 18th, 2021, 5:20 am
Sushan wrote: July 18th, 2021, 12:40 am

Well, she is an entrepreneur and definitely her thoughts on natural medicine are not solely for the benefit of the thousands of cancer patients, but for her and her organization's benefit as well. But if her drugs can actually do miracles I do not envy her being rich by selling her medicine. Not only me but also the many cancer patients who might be cured will never think that she got rich by selling them medicine, but will think as she gave them life. If she can do that what is wrong in giving her a chance?
Everything is wrong with that
People DIE.
This is not a game. I've had cancer and take it seriously.
I do not say this is a game, or an issue that does not need serious attention. Though I do not have first hand experience, I have seen hundreds of cancer patients during my clinical training and have seen what they go through. That is why I say we have to consider each and every option to use in this war against cancer. What if a very much vague and a seemingly irrelevant thing do a miracle and cure cancer? We do not have to accept rubbish, but I think it is good to consider every potential option.
People read these books; they give them a "chance" as you put it, and then they die because they echew standard proven treatments in favour of the novel treatments in these sort of books.
What am I not managing to convey here?
So, what do you suggest? Should we ban this book and every book like this, and let the common people read the research articles and get their knowledge updated?

I think every person with the ability to understand should be able to make theri own decisions on their medical treatment and it is not bad to supply them with ample resources. But these should be credible.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Sculptor1
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Re: What will the sceptics say?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Sushan wrote: July 21st, 2021, 8:32 am
Sculptor1 wrote: July 20th, 2021, 4:31 am
Sushan wrote: July 20th, 2021, 12:59 am
Sculptor1 wrote: July 18th, 2021, 5:20 am

Everything is wrong with that
People DIE.
This is not a game. I've had cancer and take it seriously.
I do not say this is a game, or an issue that does not need serious attention. Though I do not have first hand experience, I have seen hundreds of cancer patients during my clinical training and have seen what they go through. That is why I say we have to consider each and every option to use in this war against cancer. What if a very much vague and a seemingly irrelevant thing do a miracle and cure cancer? We do not have to accept rubbish, but I think it is good to consider every potential option.
People read these books; they give them a "chance" as you put it, and then they die because they echew standard proven treatments in favour of the novel treatments in these sort of books.
What am I not managing to convey here?
So, what do you suggest? Should we ban this book and every book like this, and let the common people read the research articles and get their knowledge updated?

I think every person with the ability to understand should be able to make theri own decisions on their medical treatment and it is not bad to supply them with ample resources. But these should be credible.
Children need to be taught how to discriminate at school.
Sadly, still, in many places they are brought up on fairy tales, such as those peddled by religion in which faith is offered as a poor subsustute for reason, and belief is offered as a substitute for knowledge.
At higher education it takes real effort to unapck this travesty, and in non rational subjects it is never addressed,
Part of the establishment's job is the perpetuation of myth acceptance and the dumbing down of rational capacity to more easily control the people. Books like these prey on the gullibility of people which has been established more widely.
Most of the books listed on this Forum are of that type it seems.
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Sushan
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Re: What will the sceptics say?

Post by Sushan »

Sculptor1 wrote: July 21st, 2021, 4:33 pm
Sushan wrote: July 21st, 2021, 8:32 am
Sculptor1 wrote: July 20th, 2021, 4:31 am
Sushan wrote: July 20th, 2021, 12:59 am

I do not say this is a game, or an issue that does not need serious attention. Though I do not have first hand experience, I have seen hundreds of cancer patients during my clinical training and have seen what they go through. That is why I say we have to consider each and every option to use in this war against cancer. What if a very much vague and a seemingly irrelevant thing do a miracle and cure cancer? We do not have to accept rubbish, but I think it is good to consider every potential option.
People read these books; they give them a "chance" as you put it, and then they die because they echew standard proven treatments in favour of the novel treatments in these sort of books.
What am I not managing to convey here?
So, what do you suggest? Should we ban this book and every book like this, and let the common people read the research articles and get their knowledge updated?

I think every person with the ability to understand should be able to make theri own decisions on their medical treatment and it is not bad to supply them with ample resources. But these should be credible.
Children need to be taught how to discriminate at school.
Sadly, still, in many places they are brought up on fairy tales, such as those peddled by religion in which faith is offered as a poor subsustute for reason, and belief is offered as a substitute for knowledge.
At higher education it takes real effort to unapck this travesty, and in non rational subjects it is never addressed,
Part of the establishment's job is the perpetuation of myth acceptance and the dumbing down of rational capacity to more easily control the people. Books like these prey on the gullibility of people which has been established more widely.
Most of the books listed on this Forum are of that type it seems.
Yes, we can discuss good and bad things about these books because they are neither purely white nor blavk, but grey. I will not say that these books try to fool the readers, but they can contain facts that are at various levels of rationality.

I am not going to talk about religious myths and beliefs since I am not in favour for any of those. But I have seen several medicine which have cured fatal illnesses, but are not subjected to enough experiments or research and remain either in dark or as a mystery. If this author and her foundation is revealing such drugs I think it is a service rather than mere fooling of people.

Anyway, we should keep in mind that the listener should be careful despite how much convincing the speaker is. And this applies to readers as well.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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LuckyR
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Re: What will the sceptics say?

Post by LuckyR »

Sushan wrote: July 22nd, 2021, 12:43 am
Sculptor1 wrote: July 21st, 2021, 4:33 pm
Sushan wrote: July 21st, 2021, 8:32 am
Sculptor1 wrote: July 20th, 2021, 4:31 am
People read these books; they give them a "chance" as you put it, and then they die because they echew standard proven treatments in favour of the novel treatments in these sort of books.
What am I not managing to convey here?
So, what do you suggest? Should we ban this book and every book like this, and let the common people read the research articles and get their knowledge updated?

I think every person with the ability to understand should be able to make theri own decisions on their medical treatment and it is not bad to supply them with ample resources. But these should be credible.
Children need to be taught how to discriminate at school.
Sadly, still, in many places they are brought up on fairy tales, such as those peddled by religion in which faith is offered as a poor subsustute for reason, and belief is offered as a substitute for knowledge.
At higher education it takes real effort to unapck this travesty, and in non rational subjects it is never addressed,
Part of the establishment's job is the perpetuation of myth acceptance and the dumbing down of rational capacity to more easily control the people. Books like these prey on the gullibility of people which has been established more widely.
Most of the books listed on this Forum are of that type it seems.
Yes, we can discuss good and bad things about these books because they are neither purely white nor blavk, but grey. I will not say that these books try to fool the readers, but they can contain facts that are at various levels of rationality.

I am not going to talk about religious myths and beliefs since I am not in favour for any of those. But I have seen several medicine which have cured fatal illnesses, but are not subjected to enough experiments or research and remain either in dark or as a mystery. If this author and her foundation is revealing such drugs I think it is a service rather than mere fooling of people.

Anyway, we should keep in mind that the listener should be careful despite how much convincing the speaker is. And this applies to readers as well.
I agree that censorship is not the answer. Better science instruction and better yet critical thinking instruction in schools is the way to go.
"As usual... it depends."
User avatar
Sculptor1
Posts: 3986
Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: What will the sceptics say?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Sushan wrote: July 22nd, 2021, 12:43 am
Sculptor1 wrote: July 21st, 2021, 4:33 pm
Sushan wrote: July 21st, 2021, 8:32 am
Sculptor1 wrote: July 20th, 2021, 4:31 am
People read these books; they give them a "chance" as you put it, and then they die because they echew standard proven treatments in favour of the novel treatments in these sort of books.
What am I not managing to convey here?
So, what do you suggest? Should we ban this book and every book like this, and let the common people read the research articles and get their knowledge updated?

I think every person with the ability to understand should be able to make theri own decisions on their medical treatment and it is not bad to supply them with ample resources. But these should be credible.
Children need to be taught how to discriminate at school.
Sadly, still, in many places they are brought up on fairy tales, such as those peddled by religion in which faith is offered as a poor subsustute for reason, and belief is offered as a substitute for knowledge.
At higher education it takes real effort to unapck this travesty, and in non rational subjects it is never addressed,
Part of the establishment's job is the perpetuation of myth acceptance and the dumbing down of rational capacity to more easily control the people. Books like these prey on the gullibility of people which has been established more widely.
Most of the books listed on this Forum are of that type it seems.
Yes, we can discuss good and bad things about these books because they are neither purely white nor blavk, but grey. I will not say that these books try to fool the readers, but they can contain facts that are at various levels of rationality.

I am not going to talk about religious myths and beliefs since I am not in favour for any of those. But I have seen several medicine which have cured fatal illnesses,
No you have not.
No one can observe ANY treatment curing a fatal disease.
Twelve years ago I was diagnosed with tonsil cancer. The docs could only speculate as to the reasons I contracted it, but they could tell that the cancer was already metastasizing, as they had first discovered in in a lymph node in my neck. Although the tumor was still small, I was staged at a FOUR. There is no stage FIVE.
What followed was 2 surgeries, and six weeks of chemotherapy with cisplatin and 28 days radiotherapy over the six weeks, on my head and neck. This was a horrible experience. I can give you more details if you want. But it involves sickness, loss of taste and much more.
4 months later my final scan showed no evidence of cancer.
After having lost 30lbs in weight, and not able to eat all but the most gentle food for four month, after some time by lifebegan to return almost to normal, except that I had to use and carry around "replacement saliva" in a spray bottle.
I can see why people are scared of such treatment, and vulnerable to find alternatives.
For the following five years I was scheduled for follow up.
At the end of that five year period. I asked the oncologist if I had been cured. No, he said. The treatment seems to had led you to a place where we cannot find any more evidence of cancer, but I cannot call you "cured". That's because he knows better than to give false hopes to anyone whose cancer could recur at anytime.
On september I shall be celebrating 13 years since the start of treatment.
So I am sure you will forgive me for laughing heartliy at you claims of seeing a cure.
You might want to look up the Latin phrase Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc.
:lol:


...but are not subjected to enough experiments or research and remain either in dark or as a mystery. If this author and her foundation is revealing such drugs I think it is a service rather than mere fooling of people.

Anyway, we should keep in mind that the listener should be careful despite how much convincing the speaker is. And this applies to readers as well.
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