Is education the solution for any problem?

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LuckyR
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Re: Is education the solution for any problem?

Post by LuckyR »

Sushan wrote: August 14th, 2021, 8:48 pm
LuckyR wrote: August 14th, 2021, 1:17 am
Sushan wrote: August 13th, 2021, 8:50 pm
LuckyR wrote: August 9th, 2021, 6:41 pm

The recent change in the way information is handled now has created interesting relative situations.

In my generation (old), facts were difficult to come by, so they were presented in school and had to be memorized. Thus why I have a huge amount of quasi-useful information in my memory. The beauty of the situation is that I know a lot of info and what I don't know is easy to look up now.

OTOH, kids nowadays live when there is little interest in memorizing information because 1) there is too much of it and 2) it is very easy to look it up instantly. Yet how to manage information is not universally understood, thus I assume isn't universally taught, which if true is a crime.
I agree. Those days we had to memorize things and vomit them out in our exams. In the university that changed with research and stuff and it took some time for me to get adopted to the new system.

Today with the technical advancements you do not have to memorize things but just to google when you need something. But the need to learn the basics has not been changed and will never be. If you do not know the numbers or the letters then you cannot progress further.

Among all the good aspects of the new technology in relation to education, the bad thing is it is quite easy to loose concentration. The internet contains many things and all are accessible by just a simple click. So children are attracted to these stuff rather than their educational material, and I see that distraction can do a big harm to the modern education and the modern children.
Less is more. It is more efficient to memorize data if it is hand written in a notebook than typed in a laptop.
I personally agree with you. After many years still I find it difficult to learn from a laptop or a mobile phone compared to studying a book. But that may be because of how we used to do it from the beginning. We started with books and now it is difficult for us to get adopted to new technology and new ways.

The kid who get used to laptops and phones may not experience such a problem. He will face the same problem if he had to convert into studying books.
No, I wasn't asking your opinion, this has been studied. I was pointing out the conclusion.
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Re: Is education the solution for any problem?

Post by Tegularius »

LuckyR wrote: August 15th, 2021, 2:05 am
Tegularius wrote: August 14th, 2021, 9:21 pm A plethora of educated idiots forces one to say NO!
If you think educated idiots are dumb, you should see uneducated idiots.
The uneducated ones don't receive a lot of attention.
The earth has a skin and that skin has diseases; one of its diseases is called man ... Nietzsche
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Re: Is education the solution for any problem?

Post by Sushan »

Tegularius wrote: August 14th, 2021, 10:06 pm
Sushan wrote: August 14th, 2021, 9:26 pm
Tegularius wrote: August 14th, 2021, 9:21 pm A plethora of educated idiots forces one to say NO!
Going against everything is not productive. But education will teach a man to understand what is correct and what is not. And anyone should have the courage to say 'NO' to what is wrong. This is really important in politics in a country. If the majority of the voters are less educated the political parties will easily get their votes for anything wrong. Only the educated ones with a good backbone will go against that (if they do not have any personal political agendas)
Generally speaking, you're right, but clearly education doesn't work on everyone; many are immune to it in spite of having received the necessary quantum.

Who would have believed that so many among the educated, still regard Trump, for instance - a bona fide criminal and near demented low-life, among other things - so highly as a great President unfairly cheated out of a second term? Does scumbag still have any meaning; does one even require an education to acknowledge what is overtly detrimental? There are many whom education helps to think logically, but there are also near as many who seem incapable of incorporating any of its methods into their own functional thinking.

Education has never been a complete panacea to human idiocy, which clearly still has free-range.
Formal education has its pros and cons and it may not be suitable for all. And in our educational system we have a common system to asses the abilities of students. Some pass the tests but some fail. Some students who have high IQ fail exams because the exams are not tailor-made for students. You cannot compare a monkey and a fish by comparing the ability to climb trees.

As per my belief politics is a field in which people put aside their logical abilities and educational qualifications aside to follow the band wagon. IQ level, education and skills have no place when it comes to politics (I am not certain about your country, but in my country that is what we experience).
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Re: Is education the solution for any problem?

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LuckyR wrote: August 15th, 2021, 2:05 am
Tegularius wrote: August 14th, 2021, 9:21 pm A plethora of educated idiots forces one to say NO!
If you think educated idiots are dumb, you should see uneducated idiots.
A stupid person or someone who is behaving in a stupid way --> Cambridge English Dictionary

Seemingly anyone can become an idiot in a given occasion. Howevermuch educated you are, if you cannot correctly react to a situation and act idiotically, you are entitled to be called as an idiot. Seemingly education has nothing to do with that. Both educated and non-educated ones can become idiots, but if we actively research we may be able to see which group contain more idiots, the educated or the non-educated.
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Re: Is education the solution for any problem?

Post by Sushan »

LuckyR wrote: August 15th, 2021, 2:07 am
Sushan wrote: August 14th, 2021, 8:48 pm
LuckyR wrote: August 14th, 2021, 1:17 am
Sushan wrote: August 13th, 2021, 8:50 pm

I agree. Those days we had to memorize things and vomit them out in our exams. In the university that changed with research and stuff and it took some time for me to get adopted to the new system.

Today with the technical advancements you do not have to memorize things but just to google when you need something. But the need to learn the basics has not been changed and will never be. If you do not know the numbers or the letters then you cannot progress further.

Among all the good aspects of the new technology in relation to education, the bad thing is it is quite easy to loose concentration. The internet contains many things and all are accessible by just a simple click. So children are attracted to these stuff rather than their educational material, and I see that distraction can do a big harm to the modern education and the modern children.
Less is more. It is more efficient to memorize data if it is hand written in a notebook than typed in a laptop.
I personally agree with you. After many years still I find it difficult to learn from a laptop or a mobile phone compared to studying a book. But that may be because of how we used to do it from the beginning. We started with books and now it is difficult for us to get adopted to new technology and new ways.

The kid who get used to laptops and phones may not experience such a problem. He will face the same problem if he had to convert into studying books.
No, I wasn't asking your opinion, this has been studied. I was pointing out the conclusion.
I would like to see that study. And I think that is outdated since we are gradually going towards a era without books or papers with the technical advancement as well as the acts on protecting environment (papers are made out of trees). How can this be valid for a kid who has never seen a book but has always studied using his laptop? Can't he be a great professional? Can't he become a great thinker? Can't he memorize things?
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Re: Is education the solution for any problem?

Post by Sushan »

Tegularius wrote: August 15th, 2021, 12:31 pm
LuckyR wrote: August 15th, 2021, 2:05 am
Tegularius wrote: August 14th, 2021, 9:21 pm A plethora of educated idiots forces one to say NO!
If you think educated idiots are dumb, you should see uneducated idiots.
The uneducated ones don't receive a lot of attention.
Seemingly you are talking about the formally eeducated and non-educated ones. And I think this attention is based on what you get in a job interview. Many great scientists were chased away from their schools because the traditional educational system of those days did not tolerate the inquisitive lads. So most of them missed the opportunity to get a formal education. But still we talk about and read about them, and that is the best example to measure the attention they got. So I do not think attention and education are always connected.
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Re: Is education the solution for any problem?

Post by Anand_Haqq »

. Our whole education is rotten. It certainly makes you clerks, stationmasters, postmen, police commissioners. It gives you a livelihood, but it does not give you life, and it does not give you love.

. One-third of our education should be concerned with livelihood; one-third of our education should be concerned with our well-being — body, health, ways to stay younger and live longer. And one-third — the last and the most important — should be concerned with love, with death, and the secrets of life itself. Only then will we have a wholesome education. And through that education, we can create a man and a society which will be healthy, youthful, loving, soulful, overflowing with joy, always ready to share with anyone — because nobody is a stranger on the earth; the whole earth is one family.

. All education remains part of the mind; it does not make you more alert, more conscious, it simply fills you with information. It treats you like a computer. The society’s whole interest is in how to exploit you, how to enslave you, how to use you in a more efficient way, almost like a machine. It gives you all the education just for these hidden, secret aims. It prevents you from knowing anything about meditation.

. This is what our education goes on teaching… our education is immensely destructive. In the name of education, it is mis-education. It needs to be completely changed and transformed. Things like ambition, success, comparison, have to be completely taken out of the human mind — and it is possible. Rather than teaching these ugly things, education should give people better ways of life, how to live more totally and more intensely; better ways of loving, better ways of beautifying existence — without any comparison with others — just for your sheer contentment.

. Your education teaches you to imitate, your religions teach you to imitate. Nobody says to you: “Just be yourself — that’s where your paradise lies.” They go on saying to you, “Follow this, imitate that.” They give you ideals: “Become a Gautam Buddha, or a Jesus Christ.” But never, even by mistake, do they say to you, “Just be yourself; relax and enjoy your being, and bring your potential to its maximum unfoldment.”

. A Man of understanding has to be both: the peace, the silence, the light, the qualities of his inner being, and a rebel against all injustice, against all inhumanity. But for a creative purpose, to materialize a dream of an authentic human society which will be able to give equal opportunity to all, freedom to all, education which is nonviolent, education which is not only informative but also transformative, an education that will make you more of an individual and bring the best in you to its flowering.

. Education is not bringing peace and silence and blissfulness to people. There is something missing in it; it is only education in subjects which do not touch your interior being at all. They may make you doctors, engineers, professors, but they do not give you the insight that can create a Gautam Buddha in you. The true meaning of the word “education” is “to draw out.” But all that your so-called education does is to force in. From outside, borrowed knowledge is being forced into the minds of innocent children.

. In my vision, education is nothing but another form of meditation. All that usually goes on in the name of education is secondary. The priority should be given to meditation — education of the inner. Unless you become acquainted with yourself, all your knowledge is useless.

. So before education I would put meditation. Education is trivia: geography, history, arithmetic. It is good as far as the mundane world is concerned, but it is not good as far as your interiority is concerned. You go on accumulating degrees and inside you remain empty. Your degrees can befool people, may even befool yourself, but you cannot have the joy, the blissfulness, the peace, the silence, the compassion of a Gautam Buddha. And unless education has two wings, it cannot fly in the sky in total freedom. Right now it has only one wing; the other wing is missing. Why is it missing? Because the priests don’t want you to become meditators.

. To me, charity first means the education of the inner; and only secondarily, it means education of other things. “Know thyself” must be the most precious education, and then you can become acquainted with everything else. A man who knows himself will never misuse his education in the outer world. Otherwise, when you don’t know yourself, you are going to use your education to exploit people, to create poverty.

. Education is certainly needed; but before education, meditation is needed. Anybody who becomes a graduate — either an engineer or a doctor or a professor — should not be able to have his degree unless he also passes his examinations in meditation. Each university and each college should have classes for meditation for the students — and for people from outside also; they may not have been able in their youth to learn meditation, but now they can learn.

. We just have to create people who are evidence of right education. An education is complete when it is inner and outer both. And we have to create people who can change this whole exploitative structure with love and compassion in a democratic way. There is no need for any violence. The poor just have to be made aware: It is time for you to wake up; everything belongs to you.

. We have to find a human kind of education in the world; the education that exists is very inhuman. We have to find ways so that children can play in the sun and still learn a little arithmetic. That can be done — once we know that arithmetic is not so important as playing in the sun, once that thing has been decided, then we can find ways. A little arithmetic can be taught, and a little is needed. Everybody is not going to become an Albert Einstein. And those who are going to become Albert Einsteins, they won’t bother playing in the sun — their joy is arithmetic, that is their poetry. Then it is different, then it is totally different; then the growth is not hindered and guilt is not created.

. Our whole education system is based on giving ready-made answers. Because of those ready-made answers you never develop your intelligence; there is no need. You ask the question and a computer teacher answers them.

. Education is a bridge between the potentiality and the actuality. Education is to help you to become that which you are only in a seed form. And this is what I am doing here; this is a place of education. The thing that is being done in the ordinary schools and colleges and universities is not education. It only prepares you to get a good job, a good earning; it is not real education. It does not give you life. Maybe it can give you a better standard of living, but the better standard of living is not a better standard of life; they are not synonymous.

. The so-called education that goes on in the world prepares you only to earn bread. And Jesus says, “Man cannot live by bread alone.” And that’s what your universities have been doing — they prepare you to earn bread in a better way, in an easier way, in a more comfortable way, with less effort, with less hardship. But all that they do is prepare you to earn your bread and butter. It is a very, very primitive kind of education: it does not prepare you for life.

. My vision of education is that life should not be taken as a struggle for survival; life should be taken as a celebration. Life should not be only competition, life should be joy too. Singing and dancing and poetry and music and painting, and all that is available in the world — education should prepare you to fall in tune with it — with the trees, with the birds, with the sky, with the sun and the moon.
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Re: Is education the solution for any problem?

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Anand_Haqq wrote: August 16th, 2021, 12:25 pm . Our whole education is rotten. It certainly makes you clerks, stationmasters, postmen, police commissioners. It gives you a livelihood, but it does not give you life, and it does not give you love.

. One-third of our education should be concerned with livelihood; one-third of our education should be concerned with our well-being — body, health, ways to stay younger and live longer. And one-third — the last and the most important — should be concerned with love, with death, and the secrets of life itself. Only then will we have a wholesome education. And through that education, we can create a man and a society which will be healthy, youthful, loving, soulful, overflowing with joy, always ready to share with anyone — because nobody is a stranger on the earth; the whole earth is one family.

. All education remains part of the mind; it does not make you more alert, more conscious, it simply fills you with information. It treats you like a computer. The society’s whole interest is in how to exploit you, how to enslave you, how to use you in a more efficient way, almost like a machine. It gives you all the education just for these hidden, secret aims. It prevents you from knowing anything about meditation.

. This is what our education goes on teaching… our education is immensely destructive. In the name of education, it is mis-education. It needs to be completely changed and transformed. Things like ambition, success, comparison, have to be completely taken out of the human mind — and it is possible. Rather than teaching these ugly things, education should give people better ways of life, how to live more totally and more intensely; better ways of loving, better ways of beautifying existence — without any comparison with others — just for your sheer contentment.

. Your education teaches you to imitate, your religions teach you to imitate. Nobody says to you: “Just be yourself — that’s where your paradise lies.” They go on saying to you, “Follow this, imitate that.” They give you ideals: “Become a Gautam Buddha, or a Jesus Christ.” But never, even by mistake, do they say to you, “Just be yourself; relax and enjoy your being, and bring your potential to its maximum unfoldment.”

. A Man of understanding has to be both: the peace, the silence, the light, the qualities of his inner being, and a rebel against all injustice, against all inhumanity. But for a creative purpose, to materialize a dream of an authentic human society which will be able to give equal opportunity to all, freedom to all, education which is nonviolent, education which is not only informative but also transformative, an education that will make you more of an individual and bring the best in you to its flowering.

. Education is not bringing peace and silence and blissfulness to people. There is something missing in it; it is only education in subjects which do not touch your interior being at all. They may make you doctors, engineers, professors, but they do not give you the insight that can create a Gautam Buddha in you. The true meaning of the word “education” is “to draw out.” But all that your so-called education does is to force in. From outside, borrowed knowledge is being forced into the minds of innocent children.

. In my vision, education is nothing but another form of meditation. All that usually goes on in the name of education is secondary. The priority should be given to meditation — education of the inner. Unless you become acquainted with yourself, all your knowledge is useless.

. So before education I would put meditation. Education is trivia: geography, history, arithmetic. It is good as far as the mundane world is concerned, but it is not good as far as your interiority is concerned. You go on accumulating degrees and inside you remain empty. Your degrees can befool people, may even befool yourself, but you cannot have the joy, the blissfulness, the peace, the silence, the compassion of a Gautam Buddha. And unless education has two wings, it cannot fly in the sky in total freedom. Right now it has only one wing; the other wing is missing. Why is it missing? Because the priests don’t want you to become meditators.

. To me, charity first means the education of the inner; and only secondarily, it means education of other things. “Know thyself” must be the most precious education, and then you can become acquainted with everything else. A man who knows himself will never misuse his education in the outer world. Otherwise, when you don’t know yourself, you are going to use your education to exploit people, to create poverty.

. Education is certainly needed; but before education, meditation is needed. Anybody who becomes a graduate — either an engineer or a doctor or a professor — should not be able to have his degree unless he also passes his examinations in meditation. Each university and each college should have classes for meditation for the students — and for people from outside also; they may not have been able in their youth to learn meditation, but now they can learn.

. We just have to create people who are evidence of right education. An education is complete when it is inner and outer both. And we have to create people who can change this whole exploitative structure with love and compassion in a democratic way. There is no need for any violence. The poor just have to be made aware: It is time for you to wake up; everything belongs to you.

. We have to find a human kind of education in the world; the education that exists is very inhuman. We have to find ways so that children can play in the sun and still learn a little arithmetic. That can be done — once we know that arithmetic is not so important as playing in the sun, once that thing has been decided, then we can find ways. A little arithmetic can be taught, and a little is needed. Everybody is not going to become an Albert Einstein. And those who are going to become Albert Einsteins, they won’t bother playing in the sun — their joy is arithmetic, that is their poetry. Then it is different, then it is totally different; then the growth is not hindered and guilt is not created.

. Our whole education system is based on giving ready-made answers. Because of those ready-made answers you never develop your intelligence; there is no need. You ask the question and a computer teacher answers them.

. Education is a bridge between the potentiality and the actuality. Education is to help you to become that which you are only in a seed form. And this is what I am doing here; this is a place of education. The thing that is being done in the ordinary schools and colleges and universities is not education. It only prepares you to get a good job, a good earning; it is not real education. It does not give you life. Maybe it can give you a better standard of living, but the better standard of living is not a better standard of life; they are not synonymous.

. The so-called education that goes on in the world prepares you only to earn bread. And Jesus says, “Man cannot live by bread alone.” And that’s what your universities have been doing — they prepare you to earn bread in a better way, in an easier way, in a more comfortable way, with less effort, with less hardship. But all that they do is prepare you to earn your bread and butter. It is a very, very primitive kind of education: it does not prepare you for life.

. My vision of education is that life should not be taken as a struggle for survival; life should be taken as a celebration. Life should not be only competition, life should be joy too. Singing and dancing and poetry and music and painting, and all that is available in the world — education should prepare you to fall in tune with it — with the trees, with the birds, with the sky, with the sun and the moon.
It is better if anyone can be his/her own self without trying to be someone or imitate someone. But that does not mean one has to put away ambitions and comparison. Yes, comparison can give frustration to you. But if you do not set higher goals, how can you develop yourself. I think that is applicable even for meditation. You should have a goal when you meditate and frotime to time you can see whether you have achieved that goal.

Children are born with ao much abilities, and I agree that today's education system supress many of such native abilities and just push some information into them. But is it practical to create such a tailor-made education to each and every student? At the same time, teachings logical subjects like science and mathematics help the children to express their thoughts and abilities in a more scientific and an useful way.

Yes, teaching make you into doctors, engineers, teachers, postmasters, etc. And for that the child has to be brought up to the expected standard. How can a doctor be formed without filling one with medical knowledge?
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Re: Is education the solution for any problem?

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LuckyR wrote: August 15th, 2021, 2:05 am
Tegularius wrote: August 14th, 2021, 9:21 pm A plethora of educated idiots forces one to say NO!
If you think educated idiots are dumb, you should see uneducated idiots.
true; very true. the second group tends to be violent often while the educated ones not so much.
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Re: Is education the solution for any problem?

Post by Theoryst »

Given that science and economics are the cornerstones of modern society, it is strange that science is given the proper due respect in schools but not economics. When I grew up some schools do not even teach economics. Personal finance and economics should be taught in schools along with physics and chemistry.
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Re: Is education the solution for any problem?

Post by Sushan »

mystery wrote: August 18th, 2021, 3:09 am
LuckyR wrote: August 15th, 2021, 2:05 am
Tegularius wrote: August 14th, 2021, 9:21 pm A plethora of educated idiots forces one to say NO!
If you think educated idiots are dumb, you should see uneducated idiots.
true; very true. the second group tends to be violent often while the educated ones not so much.
I doubt that. We measure the level of education by passing exams and getting degrees. In that context university students have to be considered as a well educated group. And in my country we see how they get involved in picketings and public gatherings to go against the political rule for various reasons, and in most occasions they end up being violent. Either they are not well educated, or there is no actual connection between being violent and being educated.
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Re: Is education the solution for any problem?

Post by Sushan »

Theoryst wrote: August 18th, 2021, 3:45 am Given that science and economics are the cornerstones of modern society, it is strange that science is given the proper due respect in schools but not economics. When I grew up some schools do not even teach economics. Personal finance and economics should be taught in schools along with physics and chemistry.
I think the reason behind that is they are being two separate specialities. Not teachings economics at all cannot be accepted. But teaching them together may do no good either. In my country up to ordinary llevel examination you can choose to learn them together (as I did), and you are taught the basics. But when you are in advance level you have to choose a specific direction from science, economical subjects and arts. Each of these fields require specialists and that is why I think they are taught separately. In my opinion, it is better when we make doctors and financial advisors separately rather than making mixtures.
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Re: Is education the solution for any problem?

Post by mystery »

Sushan wrote: August 18th, 2021, 8:53 pm
mystery wrote: August 18th, 2021, 3:09 am
LuckyR wrote: August 15th, 2021, 2:05 am
Tegularius wrote: August 14th, 2021, 9:21 pm A plethora of educated idiots forces one to say NO!
If you think educated idiots are dumb, you should see uneducated idiots.
true; very true. the second group tends to be violent often while the educated ones not so much.
I doubt that. We measure the level of education by passing exams and getting degrees. In that context university students have to be considered as a well educated group. And in my country we see how they get involved in picketings and public gatherings to go against the political rule for various reasons, and in most occasions they end up being violent. Either they are not well educated, or there is no actual connection between being violent and being educated.
I think you are correct about the university age. Those working to get higher education can and are more prone to emotionally charged violence. Although in inner cities of some countries the most violence is with those teens that have left the education system completely.

For older persons, I still believe lower education is more likely to be violent than similar age with higher educations.
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Re: Is education the solution for any problem?

Post by LuckyR »

mystery wrote: August 19th, 2021, 1:09 am
Sushan wrote: August 18th, 2021, 8:53 pm
mystery wrote: August 18th, 2021, 3:09 am
LuckyR wrote: August 15th, 2021, 2:05 am

If you think educated idiots are dumb, you should see uneducated idiots.
true; very true. the second group tends to be violent often while the educated ones not so much.
I doubt that. We measure the level of education by passing exams and getting degrees. In that context university students have to be considered as a well educated group. And in my country we see how they get involved in picketings and public gatherings to go against the political rule for various reasons, and in most occasions they end up being violent. Either they are not well educated, or there is no actual connection between being violent and being educated.
I think you are correct about the university age. Those working to get higher education can and are more prone to emotionally charged violence. Although in inner cities of some countries the most violence is with those teens that have left the education system completely.

For older persons, I still believe lower education is more likely to be violent than similar age with higher educations.
A quick stroll through the prison system will answer this simple question that seems to elude some.
"As usual... it depends."
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Re: Is education the solution for any problem?

Post by mystery »

LuckyR wrote: August 19th, 2021, 1:46 am
mystery wrote: August 19th, 2021, 1:09 am
Sushan wrote: August 18th, 2021, 8:53 pm
mystery wrote: August 18th, 2021, 3:09 am

true; very true. the second group tends to be violent often while the educated ones not so much.
I doubt that. We measure the level of education by passing exams and getting degrees. In that context university students have to be considered as a well educated group. And in my country we see how they get involved in picketings and public gatherings to go against the political rule for various reasons, and in most occasions they end up being violent. Either they are not well educated, or there is no actual connection between being violent and being educated.
I think you are correct about the university age. Those working to get higher education can and are more prone to emotionally charged violence. Although in inner cities of some countries the most violence is with those teens that have left the education system completely.

For older persons, I still believe lower education is more likely to be violent than similar age with higher educations.
A quick stroll through the prison system will answer this simple question that seems to elude some.
I don't know much about the prison system. What do you find in that data?
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