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Re: Is education the solution for any problem?
Posted: October 19th, 2021, 11:19 am
by Sushan
Terrapin Station wrote: ↑August 24th, 2021, 6:17 pm
Sushan wrote: ↑August 24th, 2021, 5:02 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: ↑August 23rd, 2021, 6:54 am
Sushan wrote: ↑August 22nd, 2021, 9:37 pm
People with personality disorders definitely have personality issues. But people with personality issues does not always have personality disorders, and such issues can be corrected by advice, punishment, and rewards.
Sure. So then you should be careful to not make the cleavage seem as if you'd be saying that "personality issues" somehow excludes "personality disorders." You'd want to say that you believe that personality issues can be taken care of with education, but not when they're the result of personality disorders.
I strongly believe that disciplining a child should be a part of education.
I just wouldn't call that education. I wouldn't say that education is the same thing as attempts to condition. I would say that education is the presentation of and guidance through (believed) factual information in various academic fields. That can include psychological and sociological information such as how others are likely to react to certain personality traits, but I'm of the opinion that the presentation of that information isn't likely to change those personality traits in people who have them. Can conditioning change them? Perhaps, if the conditioning is severe and sustained enough. But I just wouldn't call that education. I'd also consider severe and sustained enough conditioning to itself be indicative of a personality issue (if not disorder).
First of all, I am sorry if I could not make it clear, but what I have told is exactly the same thing. If one is only having a personality issue then that can be addressed by education. But if it is a personality disorder (including personality issues that have occurred as results of personality disorder/disorders, and then there is no more value in calling it as an 'issue' since we have already diagnosed it as an illness/disorder) then a psycological approach is necessary.
Yes, we can show people (psycologically and sociologically) how others will react towards them in various circumstances, and assume to correct their selves and behave accordingly. But will it be applicable to a large percentage of the society? Will it be applicable to anyone with any IQ level? Most importantly is it applicable to young children?
Just for one example, people on these boards (really any academic subject-oriented board in general) tend to be unduly arrogant, argumentative/stubborn a-holes. There are a variety of reasons for this, with some cases probably sourced in disorders. What would you say are the disciplinary actions we could have taken with these folks as youths to avoid this sort of behavior as adults, and now that they're adults exhibiting these personality issues, do you believe that they're correctable via education or any other way?
Being arrogant and self-centered is a quality that most children acquire from their parents. So first of all that bad influence has to be eliminated. Most of these kids show that nature from their childhood and they are the ones that usually become bullies. Similar kinds gang up together, amd that makes their bad behaviours and practices worse. Identifying such children is the beginning for the process of correcting them. First we have to try by advising. Then such gangs has to be disbanded by putting them in different classes and informing their parents. If the problem seems psychological early and appropriate interventions has to be done. If it is not so and the child cannot be corrected by other means physical punishments has to be used.
Most will be corrected after one or several of these interventions. If anyone remains like that after all the interventions then they have to be kept away from the society without giving them any responsible or authoritative jobs. And it should be shown as an example to others to discourage any building up of such bad qualities or behaviours.
Re: Is education the solution for any problem?
Posted: October 19th, 2021, 11:24 am
by Sushan
Neil Wallace wrote: ↑September 27th, 2021, 11:49 am
Sushan wrote: ↑August 4th, 2021, 3:48 am
Do you think education is the best solution for many (or any) problems that we face? Or is it just a single factor and there are many other things that have to be accomplished for success?
My definition of education would be Learning tools to solve Problems - so yes. Its not clear how to me how solve a problem without previous education.
Unless you decide to flip a coin, to blindly and randomly select possible choices to a problem and get lucky eventually - you will always be acting according to some form of previous education - even when hunches, intuitions etc. they will always be based on some form of previous educative experience.
Even innate reflexes, homeostatis etc. rely on a kind of evolutionary education - trial and error experiments linked to survival of the fittest.
The inventions that we have seen throughout the history makes it doubtful whether even a basic education is necessary for an intelligent fellow to solve problems. I agree that sophisticated things like electricity, communication, and many more need to be build on basic sciences and such things has to be learned. But the simple but useful inventions that the man has created shows that formal education is not a must for everyone. This is proven by the great inventors being kids who were kicked out of schools.
But if we take every experience and trial as forms of education, then yes, education is necessary to solve problems and it is the solution for every problem.
Re: Is education the solution for any problem?
Posted: October 19th, 2021, 11:31 am
by Sushan
John_Jacquard wrote: ↑September 27th, 2021, 10:09 pm
Sushan wrote: ↑August 4th, 2021, 3:48 am
...
He wrote about how empowered he felt when he learned his father was a lawyer. He once mentioned that Auntie Gertrude showed him off to her customers because he was a 'bright boy'. He also stated that he achieved A's in every subject, he was offered free lessons because he was a promising student, and he topped the country in his exams. He even won a scholarship.
The author battled with every obstacle he faced by doing his studies with highest possible results. Though he had some setbacks, he could achieve a lot.
Do you think education is the best solution for many (or any) problems that we face? Or is it just a single factor and there are many other things that have to be accomplished for success?
Its always context dependent.
There are many problems which no its no the solution for .
For example a specific individual has a problem with authenticy, or a problem with Integrity , or a problem with being creative , spontaneous, so it just all depends on the specific context.
Hi, I'm new i just joined the forum and I'm excited to be here ☺
Welcome to the forum and we are glad to see new members joining discussions in productive ways
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Yes, the context is important. A scientific or a mathematic problem will require formal education and knowledge for it to be solved. A social problem will be best solved by experience gained from a similar issue in the past (another way of education). A medical problem need a clinician who had medical education to solve it. So, yes, the context is important, and also we have to be in agreement of what we imply by 'education' in this discussion. If it is formal education, then no, it is not the solution for any problem as we see many educated ones are deep in many troubles in their lives.
Re: Is education the solution for any problem?
Posted: October 24th, 2021, 11:05 am
by Neil Wallace
Sushan wrote: ↑October 19th, 2021, 11:24 am
Neil Wallace wrote: ↑September 27th, 2021, 11:49 am
Sushan wrote: ↑August 4th, 2021, 3:48 am
The inventions that we have seen throughout the history makes it doubtful whether even a basic education is necessary for an intelligent fellow to solve problems.
Which inventions are you thinking of? The usual suspects might be Einstein - I believe he did poorly at school - but I think you will find that these indivduals were voracious readers (they were strongly immersed in the Formal Education in their times in Some way.
Mavericks like Tesla, Van Gogh when examined closely were also strongly linked to the Formal education in some way
I can't really think of any important invention that was not in some way linked (albeit indirectly to the Formal education of the day). These things do not simply pop out of nowhere, its usually always standing on the shoulders of giants.
Re: Is education the solution for any problem?
Posted: December 21st, 2021, 10:05 am
by AmosMorrison
Education cannot be the silver bullet that solves all problems due to today's challenges. For example, education can only begin to address a problem if education is possible in the first place. Despite its effectiveness in addressing women's rights and poverty, education should not be viewed as a cure for all societal problems. In rural areas of India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Central Asian republics, the challenge of education endures. Education may empower individuals to improve their communities or overcome their specific obstacles, in addition to enlightening them.
Education may appear to be a social leveller that empowers people and improves their lives. However, in increasingly stratified wealthy countries, this does not appear to be the case. Some issues that make up a maelstrom of socioeconomic problems necessitate a multifaceted and multi-pronged strategy. According to this blog (
https://mytutorsource.com/blog/a-day-in ... ime-tutor/), education is a never-ending process. Education can only be one solution to the problem.
Re: Is education the solution for any problem?
Posted: December 21st, 2021, 2:21 pm
by LuckyR
AmosMorrison wrote: ↑December 21st, 2021, 10:05 am
Education cannot be the silver bullet that solves all problems due to today's challenges. For example, education can only begin to address a problem if education is possible in the first place. Despite its effectiveness in addressing women's rights and poverty, education should not be viewed as a cure for all societal problems. In rural areas of India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Central Asian republics, the challenge of education endures. Education may empower individuals to improve their communities or overcome their specific obstacles, in addition to enlightening them.
Education may appear to be a social leveller that empowers people and improves their lives. However, in increasingly stratified wealthy countries, this does not appear to be the case. Some issues that make up a maelstrom of socioeconomic problems necessitate a multifaceted and multi-pronged strategy. According to this blog (
https://mytutorsource.com/blog/a-day-in ... ime-tutor/), education is a never-ending process. Education can only be one solution to the problem.
Education has been shown in the current era to be a tool, not an ends. Look at the "education" taking place every day in the topic of vaccine misinformation.
Re: Is education the solution for any problem?
Posted: December 28th, 2021, 2:20 am
by AmosMorrison
LuckyR wrote: ↑December 21st, 2021, 2:21 pm
AmosMorrison wrote: ↑December 21st, 2021, 10:05 am
Education cannot be the silver bullet that solves all problems due to today's challenges. For example, education can only begin to address a problem if education is possible in the first place. Despite its effectiveness in addressing women's rights and poverty, education should not be viewed as a cure for all societal problems. In rural areas of India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Central Asian republics, the challenge of education endures. Education may empower individuals to improve their communities or overcome their specific obstacles, in addition to enlightening them.
Education may appear to be a social leveller that empowers people and improves their lives. However, in increasingly stratified wealthy countries, this does not appear to be the case. Some issues that make up a maelstrom of socioeconomic problems necessitate a multifaceted and multi-pronged strategy. According to this blog (
https://mytutorsource.com/blog/a-day-in ... ime-tutor/), education is a never-ending process. Education can only be one solution to the problem.
Education has been shown in the current era to be a tool, not an ends. Look at the "education" taking place every day in the topic of vaccine misinformation.
It is a sensitive topic that might not suit and sit well with a lot. In essence, such a thing leads to a debate that fails to bring forward any favorable outcome or result. Hence, such things do not reach the necessary conclusion. For example, if you consider the political frame, education is something that only acts as a liability. You do not need to be a university graduate in most cases to win a presidential or prime minister’s seat. At the same time, the actual thing that matters in politics is your ability to score points against your rivals and make your words do the best on the hearts and minds of your public.
Moreover, if you consider the sporting world, there is a little with what education has to do. Consider football, for example, where you need to start from a young age to succeed. It means you do not even have to consider an education if you think you are good at football and want to excel. Education nowadays is limited and restricted within its boundaries. Hence, in the modern world, I think it is also not a solution to all of your problems, right? As we know, different areas require different expertise.
Re: Is education the solution for any problem?
Posted: January 14th, 2023, 11:08 am
by Baby Augustine
No, but that solution has caused many of our problems.
We have an Intellect and we have a Will. Most problems are WILLs willing what is wrong, immoral, stupid, etc.
Reason and Intellect are quite secondary for most people. THAT is what school should be teaching.
Our civilization, largely mediated by schools, is the result of millions of ancestors over thousands of years. Their answers are out starting points. BUt who even knows such major components nowadays as the American Founding? I found as a college teacher that the most basic principles and rights were unknown to undergrads. Some even thought that Govt conferred rights rather than merely recognizing them.
Even on major and critical issues like Lincoln and Slavery, the most opposed opinions show up, with often both sides having no real support for their position.
Reading seems to be declining. Writing for sure is at cellphone email levels even for college papers. And math !! I would estimate that 1/4 to 1/3 of incoming Freshmen are functionally innumerate.
And just to cap it off, How terrible to witness adults wanting to know about something and saying "Oh, but I can't go back to school" -- why not get a book or audio? Have we even learned how to learn ????
Re: Is education the solution for any problem?
Posted: January 17th, 2023, 8:05 pm
by Webco1577
Education could be a solution to some of society's problems if teachers were allowed to teach students and not the tests. There is no time in the day to seize the "teachable" moments and use them to encourage students to question and inquire about a present happening and teach and encourage them to search for additional information about the situation. Case in point, I have easy access to four of my grandchildren - 7th grade, 8th grade, 10th grade and a senior who will graduate this year. Earlier this month during the 15 ballots to select a Speaker of the House, I asked each of them if they had discussed the House balloting at school and what we as citizens of the United States should know about the way that it might affect us. Not one of them had heard anything about it at school.
If schools don't have time to cover history as it happens, I believe there is something wrong with the educational system as it is structured. I believe that the underlying problem with the educational system is that businessmen have been put in charge of the Education Departments of our country. They operate under the assumption that the educational process is exactly like the business model...raw materials submitted to the production process yield identical results! This is not the case with students, education's raw materials. Unlike the businessmen's raw materials, students come in many sizes, shapes and colors. They come from many different economic and family backgrounds, as well as having having different abilities and may need different methods of instruction to learn and thrive.
Their schools vary in the resources available to aid the learning process, but when it comes right down to it, all the students need is a teacher who has been taught how to teach to all of the diversity that enters the classroom. To teach the students how to learn and how to find and use the information that will help them. If a student learns how to learn and enjoys learning, they will continue to thrive as learners throughout their school years, sometimes in spite of a difficult situation. This type of education cannot be accomplished by a teacher who is taught to read the lesson verbatim out of the teacher's manual. Nothing against teachers who were taught this way; businessmen have been in charge of all aspects of education. But there has to be a better way to educate our children. They will touch the future and they need to be ready!
Re: Is education the solution for any problem?
Posted: January 20th, 2023, 1:24 pm
by LuckyR
Webco1577 wrote: ↑January 17th, 2023, 8:05 pm
Education could be a solution to some of society's problems if teachers were allowed to teach students and not the tests. There is no time in the day to seize the "teachable" moments and use them to encourage students to question and inquire about a present happening and teach and encourage them to search for additional information about the situation. Case in point, I have easy access to four of my grandchildren - 7th grade, 8th grade, 10th grade and a senior who will graduate this year. Earlier this month during the 15 ballots to select a Speaker of the House, I asked each of them if they had discussed the House balloting at school and what we as citizens of the United States should know about the way that it might affect us. Not one of them had heard anything about it at school.
If schools don't have time to cover history as it happens, I believe there is something wrong with the educational system as it is structured. I believe that the underlying problem with the educational system is that businessmen have been put in charge of the Education Departments of our country. They operate under the assumption that the educational process is exactly like the business model...raw materials submitted to the production process yield identical results! This is not the case with students, education's raw materials. Unlike the businessmen's raw materials, students come in many sizes, shapes and colors. They come from many different economic and family backgrounds, as well as having having different abilities and may need different methods of instruction to learn and thrive.
Their schools vary in the resources available to aid the learning process, but when it comes right down to it, all the students need is a teacher who has been taught how to teach to all of the diversity that enters the classroom. To teach the students how to learn and how to find and use the information that will help them. If a student learns how to learn and enjoys learning, they will continue to thrive as learners throughout their school years, sometimes in spite of a difficult situation. This type of education cannot be accomplished by a teacher who is taught to read the lesson verbatim out of the teacher's manual. Nothing against teachers who were taught this way; businessmen have been in charge of all aspects of education. But there has to be a better way to educate our children. They will touch the future and they need to be ready!
I get what you are saying, but if I was a teacher in the current political/social climate coupled with the lack of backbone in Administration, I would not cover political "current events" except in very specific situations.
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