A childhood filled with hardships will produce a successful and strong person, do you agree?

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Sushan
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A childhood filled with hardships will produce a successful and strong person, do you agree?

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This topic is about the August 2021 Philosophy Book of the Month, Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream by Dr Frank L Douglas


This is another autobiography of a successful man who had to face a tough childhood. Apparently it has made him strong, and that has been a great support when he faced bigger challenges later in his life.

This common fact is seen in many successful people throughout the history, and that list contains people from various fields like science, art, poetry, business, etc.

This makes me think that childhood hardships are necessary for a good character development. Do you agree with me?
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: A childhood filled with hardships will produce a successful and strong person, do you agree?

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Judging from experience I feel like there is not direct connection with childhood hardship and “success”. Having hard childhood might prepare to face difficulties but also might fill you with insecurity which makes self realization more difficult. On the other hand, having an easy and comfortable upbringing can provide you with confidence and opportunities but also create an environment where you do not learn how to do anything for yourself. Said simply, I think success comes down to a combination of finding something one is extremely passionate about along with ability to pursue the given endeavor.
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Re: A childhood filled with hardships will produce a successful and strong person, do you agree?

Post by LuckyR »

Sushan wrote: August 4th, 2021, 5:51 am This topic is about the August 2021 Philosophy Book of the Month, Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream by Dr Frank L Douglas


This is another autobiography of a successful man who had to face a tough childhood. Apparently it has made him strong, and that has been a great support when he faced bigger challenges later in his life.

This common fact is seen in many successful people throughout the history, and that list contains people from various fields like science, art, poetry, business, etc.

This makes me think that childhood hardships are necessary for a good character development. Do you agree with me?
I completely disagree with you for several reasons. First of all, it is true that various successful people have overcome adversity. However, it is unclear if those same successful folks might have been even more successful without the adversity... or not. Secondly, it is definitely true that successful people like to brag about themselves and the overcoming adversity humble-brag is an extremely common one. Lastly, adversity will definitely inhibit success in the majority of cases, that's why it is called "adversity" after all.
"As usual... it depends."
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Re: A childhood filled with hardships will produce a successful and strong person, do you agree?

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Especially those hardships , like multiple limb amputations described in the following webpage :

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4228106/

Well if this is then a strong person , the meaning of strength is of no use and has no utility for me . I'd rather be a weak person.
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Re: A childhood filled with hardships will produce a successful and strong person, do you agree?

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@Sushan
I think that it is an interesting question as to how much childhood experiences of hardship and suffering makes people stronger or weaker. I know some people who have been diagnosed as having complex post traumatic disorders who claim that it was childhood experiences which 'damaged' them. The psychoanalysts point to the critical role of childhood experiences. I believe that it is extremely complex, and probably depends on the extent of the hardship amidst other aspects of life.

Childhood is probably an extremely important time, but I think that the question of whether hardship makes or breaks a person extends through life. Perhaps, a certain amount of hardship is good, but if it becomes repeated, it can have devastating effects. Of course, it is probably so variable, because each person's ability to withstand adversity interpretation of experience is unique.
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Re: A childhood filled with hardships will produce a successful and strong person, do you agree?

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This is rare. In most cases difficulties pull down, and those who achieve success are obliged to fortune. In their own eyes they see their success thanks to their strength, and fall into a mistake and these people set the rules for others, thereby complicating life by saying that, 'they achieve success with difficulties'.
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Re: A childhood filled with hardships will produce a successful and strong person, do you agree?

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Darknus252 wrote: August 4th, 2021, 11:19 am Judging from experience I feel like there is not direct connection with childhood hardship and “success”. Having hard childhood might prepare to face difficulties but also might fill you with insecurity which makes self realization more difficult. On the other hand, having an easy and comfortable upbringing can provide you with confidence and opportunities but also create an environment where you do not learn how to do anything for yourself. Said simply, I think success comes down to a combination of finding something one is extremely passionate about along with ability to pursue the given endeavor.
Well, everything has its pros and cons. As you mentioned a hard life as well as a comfortable life has its pros and cons regarding future preparation of the person to face his life and endure the world. But I think a hard childhood will make the person more used to tolerate loses, which will come handy when you want to be persistent among many loses that you are bound to face when you chase success.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

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Re: A childhood filled with hardships will produce a successful and strong person, do you agree?

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LuckyR wrote: August 5th, 2021, 1:57 am
Sushan wrote: August 4th, 2021, 5:51 am This topic is about the August 2021 Philosophy Book of the Month, Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream by Dr Frank L Douglas


This is another autobiography of a successful man who had to face a tough childhood. Apparently it has made him strong, and that has been a great support when he faced bigger challenges later in his life.

This common fact is seen in many successful people throughout the history, and that list contains people from various fields like science, art, poetry, business, etc.

This makes me think that childhood hardships are necessary for a good character development. Do you agree with me?
I completely disagree with you for several reasons. First of all, it is true that various successful people have overcome adversity. However, it is unclear if those same successful folks might have been even more successful without the adversity... or not. Secondly, it is definitely true that successful people like to brag about themselves and the overcoming adversity humble-brag is an extremely common one. Lastly, adversity will definitely inhibit success in the majority of cases, that's why it is called "adversity" after all.
Adversity - a difficult or unpleasant situation. (Google)

I totally agree with this tendency to brag about how one became successful starting from nothing. But there can be (and there are as I believe) true stories among them as well.

And also a childhood filled with hardships cannot be briefed into the term 'Adversity', and it is not 'adversity' itself what matters. What matters is how one face such hardships. One can be totally broken while another one thrive through hardships. That is why different people act towards similar hardships in different manners and produce different outcomes.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: A childhood filled with hardships will produce a successful and strong person, do you agree?

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detail wrote: August 5th, 2021, 10:30 am Especially those hardships , like multiple limb amputations described in the following webpage :

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4228106/

Well if this is then a strong person , the meaning of strength is of no use and has no utility for me . I'd rather be a weak person.
I am not sure whether I really get what you intended to say. But that article says the common cause for such limb loses is vascular disease, which usually occur in adults but not in children.

And at the same time, mental strength can overcome physical strength, and also a mentally strong person can overcome physical weaknesses. Think how weight lifters lift weights that they have never lifted when they contest in the olympics. It is purely the mental strength and the strong purpose.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

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Re: A childhood filled with hardships will produce a successful and strong person, do you agree?

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JackDaydream wrote: August 5th, 2021, 5:51 pm @Sushan
I think that it is an interesting question as to how much childhood experiences of hardship and suffering makes people stronger or weaker. I know some people who have been diagnosed as having complex post traumatic disorders who claim that it was childhood experiences which 'damaged' them. The psychoanalysts point to the critical role of childhood experiences. I believe that it is extremely complex, and probably depends on the extent of the hardship amidst other aspects of life.

Childhood is probably an extremely important time, but I think that the question of whether hardship makes or breaks a person extends through life. Perhaps, a certain amount of hardship is good, but if it becomes repeated, it can have devastating effects. Of course, it is probably so variable, because each person's ability to withstand adversity interpretation of experience is unique.
I agree. The personnel fact is important in this matter. Facing hardships will make a person strong, as metal has to undergo heat first and then under water to make it hard. But children have fresh minds that can be moulded in any way. A certain amount of hardships will give them the ability to withstand future hardships, but repeated abuse, as you mentioned, will more likely break the child and can be a cause for PTSD. Some such children can become child abusers because they hate the world and want to get revenge. So childhood hardships can be good as well as bad.
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Re: A childhood filled with hardships will produce a successful and strong person, do you agree?

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Nikita wrote: August 5th, 2021, 6:57 pm This is rare. In most cases difficulties pull down, and those who achieve success are obliged to fortune. In their own eyes they see their success thanks to their strength, and fall into a mistake and these people set the rules for others, thereby complicating life by saying that, 'they achieve success with difficulties'.
I think you pointed an important fact. Yes, only the succeeded ones get a voice and they claim that they became successful because of the hardships that they faced with. But there is a high chance that they had some other helping hand that helped them to get around, which is not mentioned oftentimes. This definitely makes a pitfall to others making them believe that only hardships will make a successful person.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

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Re: A childhood filled with hardships will produce a successful and strong person, do you agree?

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Sushan wrote: August 9th, 2021, 8:47 pm
LuckyR wrote: August 5th, 2021, 1:57 am
Sushan wrote: August 4th, 2021, 5:51 am This topic is about the August 2021 Philosophy Book of the Month, Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream by Dr Frank L Douglas


This is another autobiography of a successful man who had to face a tough childhood. Apparently it has made him strong, and that has been a great support when he faced bigger challenges later in his life.

This common fact is seen in many successful people throughout the history, and that list contains people from various fields like science, art, poetry, business, etc.

This makes me think that childhood hardships are necessary for a good character development. Do you agree with me?
I completely disagree with you for several reasons. First of all, it is true that various successful people have overcome adversity. However, it is unclear if those same successful folks might have been even more successful without the adversity... or not. Secondly, it is definitely true that successful people like to brag about themselves and the overcoming adversity humble-brag is an extremely common one. Lastly, adversity will definitely inhibit success in the majority of cases, that's why it is called "adversity" after all.
Adversity - a difficult or unpleasant situation. (Google)

I totally agree with this tendency to brag about how one became successful starting from nothing. But there can be (and there are as I believe) true stories among them as well.

And also a childhood filled with hardships cannot be briefed into the term 'Adversity', and it is not 'adversity' itself what matters. What matters is how one face such hardships. One can be totally broken while another one thrive through hardships. That is why different people act towards similar hardships in different manners and produce different outcomes.
Of course, but that isn't the question. The question is since a couple of successful folks had hardships and claim the hardships led to the success, therefore is hardship the key to success? You just proved it isn't with your report that many are totally broken because of hardship. Also even one believes the braggadocio of a full-of-themselves success, we don't know if they would have been twice as successful without having to battle the hardship.
"As usual... it depends."
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Re: A childhood filled with hardships will produce a successful and strong person, do you agree?

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LuckyR wrote: August 10th, 2021, 2:26 am
Sushan wrote: August 9th, 2021, 8:47 pm
LuckyR wrote: August 5th, 2021, 1:57 am
Sushan wrote: August 4th, 2021, 5:51 am This topic is about the August 2021 Philosophy Book of the Month, Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream by Dr Frank L Douglas


This is another autobiography of a successful man who had to face a tough childhood. Apparently it has made him strong, and that has been a great support when he faced bigger challenges later in his life.

This common fact is seen in many successful people throughout the history, and that list contains people from various fields like science, art, poetry, business, etc.

This makes me think that childhood hardships are necessary for a good character development. Do you agree with me?
I completely disagree with you for several reasons. First of all, it is true that various successful people have overcome adversity. However, it is unclear if those same successful folks might have been even more successful without the adversity... or not. Secondly, it is definitely true that successful people like to brag about themselves and the overcoming adversity humble-brag is an extremely common one. Lastly, adversity will definitely inhibit success in the majority of cases, that's why it is called "adversity" after all.
Adversity - a difficult or unpleasant situation. (Google)

I totally agree with this tendency to brag about how one became successful starting from nothing. But there can be (and there are as I believe) true stories among them as well.

And also a childhood filled with hardships cannot be briefed into the term 'Adversity', and it is not 'adversity' itself what matters. What matters is how one face such hardships. One can be totally broken while another one thrive through hardships. That is why different people act towards similar hardships in different manners and produce different outcomes.
Of course, but that isn't the question. The question is since a couple of successful folks had hardships and claim the hardships led to the success, therefore is hardship the key to success? You just proved it isn't with your report that many are totally broken because of hardship. Also even one believes the braggadocio of a full-of-themselves success, we don't know if they would have been twice as successful without having to battle the hardship.
Too much hardships can break a person, a child as well as an adult. Too much comfortable life can make a lazy fellow. The problem what I see when we try to look at this problem objectively is the difficulty in interpreting or giving a value to the hardships. If we can give a score to the hardships and conduct a cohort study following the children throughout their lives until they become fully grown adults, then only we can really answer this question. And that is nearly impossible.

I think for the practical purposes we can look at the leadership and decision mmaking abilities of the people who had a relatively hard life in comparison to ones who had all the comforts and riches from their birth. In that context I believe that a little amount of hardhships can make a better person than what the same person will become if he faced no hardhships at all during his/her childhood.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: A childhood filled with hardships will produce a successful and strong person, do you agree?

Post by LuckyR »

Sushan wrote: August 13th, 2021, 9:44 pm
LuckyR wrote: August 10th, 2021, 2:26 am
Sushan wrote: August 9th, 2021, 8:47 pm
LuckyR wrote: August 5th, 2021, 1:57 am

I completely disagree with you for several reasons. First of all, it is true that various successful people have overcome adversity. However, it is unclear if those same successful folks might have been even more successful without the adversity... or not. Secondly, it is definitely true that successful people like to brag about themselves and the overcoming adversity humble-brag is an extremely common one. Lastly, adversity will definitely inhibit success in the majority of cases, that's why it is called "adversity" after all.
Adversity - a difficult or unpleasant situation. (Google)

I totally agree with this tendency to brag about how one became successful starting from nothing. But there can be (and there are as I believe) true stories among them as well.

And also a childhood filled with hardships cannot be briefed into the term 'Adversity', and it is not 'adversity' itself what matters. What matters is how one face such hardships. One can be totally broken while another one thrive through hardships. That is why different people act towards similar hardships in different manners and produce different outcomes.
Of course, but that isn't the question. The question is since a couple of successful folks had hardships and claim the hardships led to the success, therefore is hardship the key to success? You just proved it isn't with your report that many are totally broken because of hardship. Also even one believes the braggadocio of a full-of-themselves success, we don't know if they would have been twice as successful without having to battle the hardship.
Too much hardships can break a person, a child as well as an adult. Too much comfortable life can make a lazy fellow. The problem what I see when we try to look at this problem objectively is the difficulty in interpreting or giving a value to the hardships. If we can give a score to the hardships and conduct a cohort study following the children throughout their lives until they become fully grown adults, then only we can really answer this question. And that is nearly impossible.

I think for the practical purposes we can look at the leadership and decision mmaking abilities of the people who had a relatively hard life in comparison to ones who had all the comforts and riches from their birth. In that context I believe that a little amount of hardhships can make a better person than what the same person will become if he faced no hardhships at all during his/her childhood.
We don't need studies. If hardship led to success, all of the Fortune 500 companies would be led by inner city black kids without formal educations instead of well connected children of elites who went to Ivy league schools.
"As usual... it depends."
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Re: A childhood filled with hardships will produce a successful and strong person, do you agree?

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LuckyR wrote: August 14th, 2021, 1:21 am
Sushan wrote: August 13th, 2021, 9:44 pm
LuckyR wrote: August 10th, 2021, 2:26 am
Sushan wrote: August 9th, 2021, 8:47 pm

Adversity - a difficult or unpleasant situation. (Google)

I totally agree with this tendency to brag about how one became successful starting from nothing. But there can be (and there are as I believe) true stories among them as well.

And also a childhood filled with hardships cannot be briefed into the term 'Adversity', and it is not 'adversity' itself what matters. What matters is how one face such hardships. One can be totally broken while another one thrive through hardships. That is why different people act towards similar hardships in different manners and produce different outcomes.
Of course, but that isn't the question. The question is since a couple of successful folks had hardships and claim the hardships led to the success, therefore is hardship the key to success? You just proved it isn't with your report that many are totally broken because of hardship. Also even one believes the braggadocio of a full-of-themselves success, we don't know if they would have been twice as successful without having to battle the hardship.
Too much hardships can break a person, a child as well as an adult. Too much comfortable life can make a lazy fellow. The problem what I see when we try to look at this problem objectively is the difficulty in interpreting or giving a value to the hardships. If we can give a score to the hardships and conduct a cohort study following the children throughout their lives until they become fully grown adults, then only we can really answer this question. And that is nearly impossible.

I think for the practical purposes we can look at the leadership and decision mmaking abilities of the people who had a relatively hard life in comparison to ones who had all the comforts and riches from their birth. In that context I believe that a little amount of hardhships can make a better person than what the same person will become if he faced no hardhships at all during his/her childhood.
We don't need studies. If hardship led to success, all of the Fortune 500 companies would be led by inner city black kids without formal educations instead of well connected children of elites who went to Ivy league schools.
Leading a company can be mere a family heritage. You will become the heir only if your family owned the business. Such families are quite rich and privileged for a number of generations, so the kids too get all those since their childhood. But if we think about founders of various companies, yes, there are people who rose through ranks with the strength that they got by facing multiple hardships.

For objective decision making we need formal studies. Otherwise it will be only an assumption and anyone can argue against assumptions.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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