Best approach to life?

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Re: Best approach to life?

Post by Sushan »

Sy Borg wrote: August 14th, 2021, 9:54 pm
Sushan wrote: August 14th, 2021, 9:18 pmI believe personal development is important as much as the development of the society. So one's way of living should ensure these both aspects.
The development of certain, but not all, individuals is important for society in toto's development. That's why societies keep on endorsing a two-tier education system. It makes little difference if a small number of people, for instance, believe that the Earth is flat. However, it's essential that at least those with mission critical jobs are up to speed.
I think all the jobs in a society are important for the sustainability of the society as well as its development. It is not a good thing to categorize jobs as mission critical and less critical. Toilet cleaners are important as same as doctors and engineers. If either of these parties stop working or become less efficient, the society will soon go into chaos. So all of us have to do what we do in the best way we can, in order to achieve both personal as well as societal success.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: Best approach to life?

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PoeticUniverse wrote: August 15th, 2021, 1:51 am
fionaimmodest wrote: August 13th, 2021, 5:37 am I feel like setting really simple and achievable goals was really how it used to be before the self-help and personal development industry began promoting the dreaming big mentality...Another example of us creating our own problems. My current goal: I’m being more mindful about the self-help content I consume cause I realized I’m reaching a saturation point and SO MANY VOICES fill my head with advice and hacks and tips and I forgot my own thoughts altogether.
I recently posted about self-mastering over here in another thread:
viewtopic.php?p=391934#p391934
I read your post. As my understanding you have spoken about an ideal mind which can reason out everything and avoid unnecessary conflict, frustration, and even too much happiness. But I am doubtful will anyone with even a bit of mundane thoughts be able to achieve such a high level. With whatever the reasoning we are unable to remain calm and quite in all occasions. Death is a common thing. Yet will you be able not to mourn at your mother's funeral? Self mastery is a good thing as I see it, but it simply reminds me of the 'Arihath state' in buddhism which is not an easy task to achieve.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: Best approach to life?

Post by PoeticUniverse »

Sushan wrote: August 15th, 2021, 7:28 pm As my understanding you have spoken about an ideal mind which can reason out everything and avoid unnecessary conflict, frustration, and even too much happiness. But I am doubtful will anyone with even a bit of mundane thoughts be able to achieve such a high level. With whatever the reasoning we are unable to remain calm and quiet in all occasions.
Still, it is an 'approach to life' that one can head toward, which is already halfway there. Sure, there will be some involuntary anxiety, although less and less. The mundane will still be about, but will lose its pervasiveness. Note that philosophers on forums are more open to try, such as Fiona.

At funerals, one would celebrate the life and existence of the deceased.

The Arahant state of Nirvana is the realization of Impermanence and Emptiness of a Relational Universe with no intrinsic properties—this sometimes extended for it to be called not real, as the perfect illusion, and yet, a difference in implementation, as the messenger, unto the message, as the result, is a difference that makes no difference to the result. I am not Buddhist, though.

We seize on life’s phantom dream, dimly seen.
Tremendous image! We must join thy scene:
Aspiration sires realization!
Living out our dreams soon becomes routine.

Daydreams pierce the noise of consciousness,
To reveal that which is best for us; yes,
Mere aspiration halves realization;
What we have now was once a dream, no less.

Throughout the day, we’re living out the dream,
Drifting on air, aloft in the day-beam,
Causing, when condensing in night’s dark stream,
Many more such wondrous dreams, it doth seem.

We construct the world that our dreams require,
One moulded closer to the heart’s desire.
In this world body of the soul inspired,
We’ll live life entire before we expire.
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Re: Best approach to life?

Post by Anand_Haqq »

. The question could be made in another way; a better way: Must we have a certain attitude towards Life ... ?

. The best way to miss Life is a to have a certain atititude towards it. The attitudes are originated in the mind ... and ... Life is beyond mind.

. The attitudes are our fabrications; our prejudices; our inventions ... Life ... is not our fabrication ... on the contrary; we are just ripples in the lake of Life. What an attitude; a ripple in the ocean can have towards the ocean? What an attitude; a grass leave can have towards the earth; the moon; the sun; the stars ... ?

. All attitudes are egoistics; all attitudes are stupid; Life is not a philosophy; it is not a problem. It is a mystery; you have to live it ... not according to a certain patern; not according to a conditioning; not what you have been told about it. You have to start it fresh; from the very scratch.

. Each human individual should think as if he is the first on the earth; he is the Adam or the Eve. Then, you can open ... you can open to infinite possibilities ... then you'll be vulnerable; available ... and the more vulnerable you are; the more available you are ... the more is the possibility of Life happening to you. You attitudes function like barriers; then Life never reaches to you as it is; it has to fit to your philosophy; religion; ideology. And in that very fitting ... something dies in it; what you get out is a corpse. It may look like Life, buyt it is not. That's what people have been doing down the ages; the Hindus are living according to the hindu atittude; the Mohammedans according to the mohammedan attitude; and the communists according to the communist attitude. But remeber a basic fundamental truth. The attitude does not allow you to come in contact with Life ... as it is. It distorts; it interprets.

. Meditate over this old greek story:

A famous king had made a guesthouse for other kings when they used to visit. He made such a beautiful guesthouse, even better than the palace, and he made a golden bed which exactly fitted him: if he was five foot five inches, he had made the bed exactly five foot five.

Nobody had the courage to ask him, ”What are you doing? Somebody may come who is six feet, and he will not find it comfortable on this bed.” But it was well known that if you asked this king anything he answered with his sword, your head would be cut off. You could not ask anything; his word was the law!

So the craftsmen made the bed exactly to fit a man who is five foot five inches. But it is very difficult to find the same sized people …. The first emperor who came as a guest loved the guesthouse. He repented later on, but then it was too late. In the night four big wrestlers came in. Because he was six feet tall they had to push him
from both ends to fit the bed.

The king had ordered, ”Everybody has to fit the bed. If he is too long, cut him short, or push him in! If he is too short, make him longer! Don’t be worried whether he lives. Alive or dead – I have made a special bed of pure gold ….”

The emperor tried hard, but those four wrestlers first tried to push him in to fit to five foot five, and it was a difficult job. How to squash a man of six feet? They almost killed him. He said, ”What are you doing?”

They said, ”You have to fit with the bed.” But because they could not manage to push him shorter they had to cut off his head; then he fit the bed perfectly. And they told the king, ”The guest is in absolute rest.” Just two, three more people were caught by him, and then the story spread. But he killed three kings just by trying to make them fit according to the bed.


. When you have a certain attitude towards Life Sushan... you'll miss Life itself. Life is vast; uncontainable in any attitude; impossible ... to put it into a certain definition. Yes, your attitude may cover a certain aspect; but it will be only an aspect. And the tendency of the mind is to proclaim its aspect as the whole. And the moment, the aspect is claimed as the whole ... you've missed the very connection with Life. Then, you'll live surrounded by your attitude in a kind of coconut; encapsulated. And you'll be miserable. And then ... all your co-called religions will be very happy. Because, that's what they've been telling to you ... that ... "Life is misery".
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Re: Best approach to life?

Post by PoeticUniverse »

Anand_Haqq wrote: August 16th, 2021, 1:16 pm It is a mystery; you have to live it ...
I once traveled deep into the jungle and met a tribe who had no previous human contact. Their only real question was about Paris Hilton.

More seriously, I was stunned when they unveiled some ancient words carved into rock:

THE ONLY PURPOSE OF LIFE IS TO BE—
FINDING YOUR OWN MEANING THEREIN;

BUT, SOME QUESTIONS STILL REMAIN,
SUCH AS

“WHAT IS LIFE?”
(AND IT’S POINT).

TO FIND THE ANSWER,
ONE MUST LIVE IT FULLY!
(WITH GOODNESS)
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Sushan
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Re: Best approach to life?

Post by Sushan »

PoeticUniverse wrote: August 15th, 2021, 8:51 pm
Sushan wrote: August 15th, 2021, 7:28 pm As my understanding you have spoken about an ideal mind which can reason out everything and avoid unnecessary conflict, frustration, and even too much happiness. But I am doubtful will anyone with even a bit of mundane thoughts be able to achieve such a high level. With whatever the reasoning we are unable to remain calm and quiet in all occasions.
Still, it is an 'approach to life' that one can head toward, which is already halfway there. Sure, there will be some involuntary anxiety, although less and less. The mundane will still be about, but will lose its pervasiveness. Note that philosophers on forums are more open to try, such as Fiona.

At funerals, one would celebrate the life and existence of the deceased.

The Arahant state of Nirvana is the realization of Impermanence and Emptiness of a Relational Universe with no intrinsic properties—this sometimes extended for it to be called not real, as the perfect illusion, and yet, a difference in implementation, as the messenger, unto the message, as the result, is a difference that makes no difference to the result. I am not Buddhist, though.

We seize on life’s phantom dream, dimly seen.
Tremendous image! We must join thy scene:
Aspiration sires realization!
Living out our dreams soon becomes routine.

Daydreams pierce the noise of consciousness,
To reveal that which is best for us; yes,
Mere aspiration halves realization;
What we have now was once a dream, no less.

Throughout the day, we’re living out the dream,
Drifting on air, aloft in the day-beam,
Causing, when condensing in night’s dark stream,
Many more such wondrous dreams, it doth seem.

We construct the world that our dreams require,
One moulded closer to the heart’s desire.
In this world body of the soul inspired,
We’ll live life entire before we expire.
I agree. Our lives are full of dreams and targets, and we live to fulfill them. When one is out of dreams or targets they loose the interest or the need to live.

But if we further think in a realistic manner, we can see that if we expire with our deaths, which will definitely come sooner or later, that there is no actual use in fulfilling our dreams or targets. It may have an effect as per the whole humankind or the society. But in the view of a single person, we simply live in a delusion and one day will have to get rid of everything that we loved and built with sweat and tears, and leave this place.

If one think too much and understand too much, won't he end up realizing the ultimate truth of nothingness and end up with depression?
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Sushan
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Re: Best approach to life?

Post by Sushan »

Anand_Haqq wrote: August 16th, 2021, 1:16 pm . The question could be made in another way; a better way: Must we have a certain attitude towards Life ... ?

. The best way to miss Life is a to have a certain atititude towards it. The attitudes are originated in the mind ... and ... Life is beyond mind.

. The attitudes are our fabrications; our prejudices; our inventions ... Life ... is not our fabrication ... on the contrary; we are just ripples in the lake of Life. What an attitude; a ripple in the ocean can have towards the ocean? What an attitude; a grass leave can have towards the earth; the moon; the sun; the stars ... ?

. All attitudes are egoistics; all attitudes are stupid; Life is not a philosophy; it is not a problem. It is a mystery; you have to live it ... not according to a certain patern; not according to a conditioning; not what you have been told about it. You have to start it fresh; from the very scratch.

. Each human individual should think as if he is the first on the earth; he is the Adam or the Eve. Then, you can open ... you can open to infinite possibilities ... then you'll be vulnerable; available ... and the more vulnerable you are; the more available you are ... the more is the possibility of Life happening to you. You attitudes function like barriers; then Life never reaches to you as it is; it has to fit to your philosophy; religion; ideology. And in that very fitting ... something dies in it; what you get out is a corpse. It may look like Life, buyt it is not. That's what people have been doing down the ages; the Hindus are living according to the hindu atittude; the Mohammedans according to the mohammedan attitude; and the communists according to the communist attitude. But remeber a basic fundamental truth. The attitude does not allow you to come in contact with Life ... as it is. It distorts; it interprets.

. Meditate over this old greek story:

A famous king had made a guesthouse for other kings when they used to visit. He made such a beautiful guesthouse, even better than the palace, and he made a golden bed which exactly fitted him: if he was five foot five inches, he had made the bed exactly five foot five.

Nobody had the courage to ask him, ”What are you doing? Somebody may come who is six feet, and he will not find it comfortable on this bed.” But it was well known that if you asked this king anything he answered with his sword, your head would be cut off. You could not ask anything; his word was the law!

So the craftsmen made the bed exactly to fit a man who is five foot five inches. But it is very difficult to find the same sized people …. The first emperor who came as a guest loved the guesthouse. He repented later on, but then it was too late. In the night four big wrestlers came in. Because he was six feet tall they had to push him
from both ends to fit the bed.

The king had ordered, ”Everybody has to fit the bed. If he is too long, cut him short, or push him in! If he is too short, make him longer! Don’t be worried whether he lives. Alive or dead – I have made a special bed of pure gold ….”

The emperor tried hard, but those four wrestlers first tried to push him in to fit to five foot five, and it was a difficult job. How to squash a man of six feet? They almost killed him. He said, ”What are you doing?”

They said, ”You have to fit with the bed.” But because they could not manage to push him shorter they had to cut off his head; then he fit the bed perfectly. And they told the king, ”The guest is in absolute rest.” Just two, three more people were caught by him, and then the story spread. But he killed three kings just by trying to make them fit according to the bed.


. When you have a certain attitude towards Life Sushan... you'll miss Life itself. Life is vast; uncontainable in any attitude; impossible ... to put it into a certain definition. Yes, your attitude may cover a certain aspect; but it will be only an aspect. And the tendency of the mind is to proclaim its aspect as the whole. And the moment, the aspect is claimed as the whole ... you've missed the very connection with Life. Then, you'll live surrounded by your attitude in a kind of coconut; encapsulated. And you'll be miserable. And then ... all your co-called religions will be very happy. Because, that's what they've been telling to you ... that ... "Life is misery".
First of I personally do not think that any religion teach that life is a misery. The religious leaders and preachers who interpret the religions (in most cases either wrongly or for their personal benefits) say so.

One can start one's life anew if he is the only person in the world. But the world and the society have been there for a long time and there are accepted social norms and rules. One is bound to all of these starting from one's birth. To avoid them one has to avoid the whole humankind, which is impossible in most occasions.

No one has to have a certain attitude towards one's life. That will definitely imprison one in that attitude. I agree. But everyone should have dreams and goals. Otherwise there won't be a way to live the life.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: Best approach to life?

Post by Sushan »

PoeticUniverse wrote: August 16th, 2021, 11:09 pm
Anand_Haqq wrote: August 16th, 2021, 1:16 pm It is a mystery; you have to live it ...
I once traveled deep into the jungle and met a tribe who had no previous human contact. Their only real question was about Paris Hilton.

More seriously, I was stunned when they unveiled some ancient words carved into rock:

THE ONLY PURPOSE OF LIFE IS TO BE—
FINDING YOUR OWN MEANING THEREIN;

BUT, SOME QUESTIONS STILL REMAIN,
SUCH AS

“WHAT IS LIFE?”
(AND IT’S POINT).

TO FIND THE ANSWER,
ONE MUST LIVE IT FULLY!
(WITH GOODNESS)
Silly question : With no human contact how did they know about a person named Paris Hilton?

There have been and there are intelligent people evein most remote tribes. They raise such philosophical questions and answer them philosophically as well. But the problem in their is such answers raising some more questions. As an example, what is meant by living a life fully? Does it mean you have to do good to your own self or the others? Who is there to define or judge a fully lived life?
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: Best approach to life?

Post by -TheLastAmerican »

There is only one thing that any person needs to navigate challenges and succeed in life - that is the knowledge that they were genuinely unconditionally loved by their parents.

Actions speak louder than words.
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Re: Best approach to life?

Post by PoeticUniverse »

Sushan wrote: August 17th, 2021, 2:34 am As an example, what is meant by living a life fully? Does it mean you have to do good to your own self or the others? Who is there to define or judge a fully lived life?
Life seems not to be mindless, but inspired;
It’s meanings cannot be
Discovered by observation,
But only by participation.

Life’s entities embrace one another:
Cell, organism, species, and biotope.

A living creature is more like a poem,
Revealing further dimensions
And expressing new properties
At every level of organization:
Letter, word, sentence and [uni]verse.
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Re: Best approach to life?

Post by Sushan »

PoeticUniverse wrote: August 17th, 2021, 2:35 pm
Sushan wrote: August 17th, 2021, 2:34 am As an example, what is meant by living a life fully? Does it mean you have to do good to your own self or the others? Who is there to define or judge a fully lived life?
Life seems not to be mindless, but inspired;
It’s meanings cannot be
Discovered by observation,
But only by participation.

Life’s entities embrace one another:
Cell, organism, species, and biotope.

A living creature is more like a poem,
Revealing further dimensions
And expressing new properties
At every level of organization:
Letter, word, sentence and [uni]verse.
Yes, one have to live one's own life and understand its dimensions and opportunities. And that is totally a personal experience. But we have subjects like human science, sociology, political science, and many more which discuss about personal and social behaviours of humans. If life has to be experienced and not to be taught are we wasting our time by trying to study life through various subjects like above? At the same time, is it a useless thing for an adult to advice a younger one regarding how to live if it is totally up to that younger one but not anyone else?
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
PoeticUniverse
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Joined: April 4th, 2015, 7:25 pm

Re: Best approach to life?

Post by PoeticUniverse »

Sushan wrote: August 17th, 2021, 1:55 am I agree. Our lives are full of dreams and targets, and we live to fulfill them. When one is out of dreams or targets they loose the interest or the need to live.

But if we further think in a realistic manner, we can see that if we expire with our deaths, which will definitely come sooner or later, that there is no actual use in fulfilling our dreams or targets. It may have an effect as per the whole humankind or the society. But in the view of a single person, we simply live in a delusion and one day will have to get rid of everything that we loved and built with sweat and tears, and leave this place.

If one think too much and understand too much, won't he end up realizing the ultimate truth of nothingness and end up with depression?
I agree that life is ultimately meaningless due its impermanence shown by Death. Life is even all the more worthless due to the necessity that the Cosmos does us, not the other way around, which would still be true if there was no death. The closest thing to a benefit is that we get to experience living, albeit it temporary.
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Re: Best approach to life?

Post by Sushan »

PoeticUniverse wrote: August 18th, 2021, 3:44 pm
Sushan wrote: August 17th, 2021, 1:55 am I agree. Our lives are full of dreams and targets, and we live to fulfill them. When one is out of dreams or targets they loose the interest or the need to live.

But if we further think in a realistic manner, we can see that if we expire with our deaths, which will definitely come sooner or later, that there is no actual use in fulfilling our dreams or targets. It may have an effect as per the whole humankind or the society. But in the view of a single person, we simply live in a delusion and one day will have to get rid of everything that we loved and built with sweat and tears, and leave this place.

If one think too much and understand too much, won't he end up realizing the ultimate truth of nothingness and end up with depression?
I agree that life is ultimately meaningless due its impermanence shown by Death. Life is even all the more worthless due to the necessity that the Cosmos does us, not the other way around, which would still be true if there was no death. The closest thing to a benefit is that we get to experience living, albeit it temporary.
You are correct. And at the same time we cannot simply be depressed and remain doing nothing because, even if we have no goals, we have to live because we were born. To conduct a life we should learn, do a job, and earn. And also we are expected to support the continuation of humankind. So, yes, you have to experience living whether you like it or not though it is temporary.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: Best approach to life?

Post by Sushan »

-TheLastAmerican wrote: August 17th, 2021, 8:09 am There is only one thing that any person needs to navigate challenges and succeed in life - that is the knowledge that they were genuinely unconditionally loved by their parents.

Actions speak louder than words.
Parental love is unconditional and unlimited (in most occasions), and children can simply thrive upon that facing any problem they get, since their parents are there to back them. But there is a group of children that have never known their parents. And even out of these children there are many who succeed in this world. Since they do not have parents to look upon to or unconditionally loved by, what might have been there driving force which ended up them in success?
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
PoeticUniverse
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Re: Best approach to life?

Post by PoeticUniverse »

Sushan wrote: August 18th, 2021, 8:20 pm You are correct. And at the same time we cannot simply be depressed and remain doing nothing because, even if we have no goals, we have to live because we were born. To conduct a life we should learn, do a job, and earn. And also we are expected to support the continuation of humankind. So, yes, you have to experience living whether you like it or not though it is temporary.
What, without asking, hither hurried whence?
And, without asking, whither hurried hence!
Another and another Cup to drown
The Memory of this Impertinence!
— Omar

Whence and Whither video with an attempt at some 3D without glasses:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Avh6GlV00N0
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