Will racism ever be over?

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Sushan
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Will racism ever be over?

Post by Sushan »

This topic is about the August 2021 Philosophy Book of the Month, Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream by Dr Frank L Douglas

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.
          -Dr. Martin Luther King-
(Location 259 of Kindle version)

So in the book, when Frank gets to the US, he experiences instances of racial discrimination that he hadn't in Guyana. Once he was even denied of a prestigious job not because he was not suitable, but because he was black.

The author met with these issues few decades back, but still we see remnants of racism throughout the world. Will racism ever be over? If not, why?
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

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Tegularius
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Re: Will racism ever be over?

Post by Tegularius »

Oh yes! When we're all the same colour.
The earth has a skin and that skin has diseases; one of its diseases is called man ... Nietzsche
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LuckyR
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Re: Will racism ever be over?

Post by LuckyR »

Sushan wrote: August 5th, 2021, 8:10 pm This topic is about the August 2021 Philosophy Book of the Month, Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream by Dr Frank L Douglas

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.
          -Dr. Martin Luther King-
(Location 259 of Kindle version)

So in the book, when Frank gets to the US, he experiences instances of racial discrimination that he hadn't in Guyana. Once he was even denied of a prestigious job not because he was not suitable, but because he was black.

The author met with these issues few decades back, but still we see remnants of racism throughout the world. Will racism ever be over? If not, why?
Tribalism is intrinsic to the human understanding of self. The tribes in the future may move away from what we call race, but don't be fooled, it will just be replaced by something else besides race.
"As usual... it depends."
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Re: Will racism ever be over?

Post by Nick_A »

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.
-Dr. Martin Luther King-
All statues of MLK must be torn down. The idea is too old fashioned and gets in the way of the woke ponderings of modern academics seeking improvements and cash. Character has become archaic

The modern woke academics after a week of intense ponderings and six bottles of good scotch finally resolved that the solution to racism requires adopting Critical Race Theory and the struggle between people of color and people of non color. Realizing that the concept of people of non color was too broad, these experts decided to limit people of non color to long nosed Armenian and Russian people of which I am one.

The idea then is to make them the currently fashionable people responsible for all that happened to people of color. Character has nothing to do with it. The only question is if you are a person of color or non color. If you are a person of non color my suggestion is get a gun for protection against those needing scapegoats. Your nose will give you away and could become a target.
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace
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Re: Will racism ever be over?

Post by Gertie »

LuckyR wrote: August 6th, 2021, 1:40 am
Sushan wrote: August 5th, 2021, 8:10 pm This topic is about the August 2021 Philosophy Book of the Month, Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream by Dr Frank L Douglas

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.
          -Dr. Martin Luther King-
(Location 259 of Kindle version)

So in the book, when Frank gets to the US, he experiences instances of racial discrimination that he hadn't in Guyana. Once he was even denied of a prestigious job not because he was not suitable, but because he was black.

The author met with these issues few decades back, but still we see remnants of racism throughout the world. Will racism ever be over? If not, why?
Tribalism is intrinsic to the human understanding of self. The tribes in the future may move away from what we call race, but don't be fooled, it will just be replaced by something else besides race.
Yes I think you're right we have these evolved tribal pre-dispositions which can be triggered in various ways. My hope is that if we come to understand them better, we might be able to avoid the worst effects...
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Re: Will racism ever be over?

Post by LuckyR »

Nick_A wrote: August 6th, 2021, 11:05 am
I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.
-Dr. Martin Luther King-
All statues of MLK must be torn down. The idea is too old fashioned and gets in the way of the woke ponderings of modern academics seeking improvements and cash. Character has become archaic

The modern woke academics after a week of intense ponderings and six bottles of good scotch finally resolved that the solution to racism requires adopting Critical Race Theory and the struggle between people of color and people of non color. Realizing that the concept of people of non color was too broad, these experts decided to limit people of non color to long nosed Armenian and Russian people of which I am one.

The idea then is to make them the currently fashionable people responsible for all that happened to people of color. Character has nothing to do with it. The only question is if you are a person of color or non color. If you are a person of non color my suggestion is get a gun for protection against those needing scapegoats. Your nose will give you away and could become a target.
Ah, no one complains louder for fairness than someone who fears losing their unfair advantage.
"As usual... it depends."
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Re: Will racism ever be over?

Post by Nick_A »

LuckyR wrote: August 7th, 2021, 1:24 am
Nick_A wrote: August 6th, 2021, 11:05 am
I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.
-Dr. Martin Luther King-
All statues of MLK must be torn down. The idea is too old fashioned and gets in the way of the woke ponderings of modern academics seeking improvements and cash. Character has become archaic

The modern woke academics after a week of intense ponderings and six bottles of good scotch finally resolved that the solution to racism requires adopting Critical Race Theory and the struggle between people of color and people of non color. Realizing that the concept of people of non color was too broad, these experts decided to limit people of non color to long nosed Armenian and Russian people of which I am one.

The idea then is to make them the currently fashionable people responsible for all that happened to people of color. Character has nothing to do with it. The only question is if you are a person of color or non color. If you are a person of non color my suggestion is get a gun for protection against those needing scapegoats. Your nose will give you away and could become a target.
Ah, no one complains louder for fairness than someone who fears losing their unfair advantage.
Quite true. If I don't defend my nose against supporters of Critical Race Theory, it will be lost, removed or canceled in the cause of fairness and the equality of noses.
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace
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Re: Will racism ever be over?

Post by Anand_Haqq »

. Unless the mind stops with its proclivity of reducing reality to it's own terms and limitations ... unless one goes beyond mind ... racism, will never cease; and in fact, racism has never ceased throughout the ages ... it has increased, in parallel of the human consciousness increasement. This fact just reveals that, human beings are not developing in consciousness. We're regressing, slowly slowly ... regardless what has been shown by the apparent evidences. But they're just apparent ... not the reality; not that ... which is behind the curtain of facade. They're just that which society choses to show you; and that's a choice, based on a prejudiced mind.

. That's the root of all evil. Interpreting that which cannot be interpreted ... but seen directly ... but perceived direclty, by a state of no-mind ... is the biggest sin, existence has ever known.

. When the ego is there ... a crystallized ego ... then ... inevitably, all kinds of prejudices will be there ... as shadows ... coming from the tower of ignorance.

. When the ego is there, then racism happens. Why is it so? Because, racism is the seed of all human prejudices. And that seed is filled by the ego; by the mind. Drop the ego ... be merged with existence; with the ocean ... Drop your maniac desire of being an island ... and then ... suddenly ... you'll perceive yourself not as an entity separate from the whole; but a drop of the ocean ... where the whole ocean is contained in there; in a single drop.
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Re: Will racism ever be over?

Post by mystery »

the competition will never be over. it is built into our DNA as a species, all races.

multiple ways exist to win the competition, such as direct confrontation or subterfuge if/when direct confrontation fails or is sure to fail then alternative methods are used.

it is a zero-sum world.

discrimination is built into our DNA as well, all races. we treat the wealthy better than poor, they get better food and better items. we treat the pretty better than the ugly. we treat the educated better than the ignorant. human life is competition from birth till death.

I see often firsthand how a race of ppl strives to copy another race. so often when the copy is complete, they hate it and go back to the old ways because the cost of the new in multiple ways is more than expected. not about wrong and write, it is about being authentic.

one race will tell that others treat them bad, while at the same time treating a third race bad themselves. no one is immune to this, it is part of what we are. doesn't make it good, but it is true.
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Re: Will racism ever be over?

Post by Sculptor1 »

mystery wrote: August 9th, 2021, 3:41 am the competition will never be over. it is built into our DNA as a species, all races.
And so is co-operation, and altruism.

multiple ways exist to win the competition, such as direct confrontation or subterfuge if/when direct confrontation fails or is sure to fail then alternative methods are used.
And multiple ways exist to integrate and accomodate such as kindness and generosity.

it is a zero-sum world.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean buy this, but it is an overused phrase.
I think I know what it means, and it is clear that it is not a zero sum world at all. If it was we'd all still be living in the trees. Co-operation is additive. It's a plus sum world, and that is how humans managed to leave Africa and colonise the entire globe.

discrimination is built into our DNA as well, all races. we treat the wealthy better than poor, they get better food and better items. we treat the pretty better than the ugly. we treat the educated better than the ignorant. human life is competition from birth till death.
Discrimination is not whooly genetic. It is mostly cultural. You have been brought uo with negative images of "young black males" every night on TV shooting, looting, and robbing. The real criminals wear smart suits and steal billions, are usually white, and they own the TV channel so you see less abou them though they do more harm.
Racism is self fulfilling, one level of prejudice leads to another- YBM have fewer job opportunities because of negative propoganda and this means that their options are fewer, crime becomes a good option, and the circle closes. holding views as you do, that discrimination is inevitable is also self fulfilling.

I see often firsthand how a race of ppl strives to copy another race. so often when the copy is complete, they hate it and go back to the old ways because the cost of the new in multiple ways is more than expected. not about wrong and write, it is about being authentic.
I do not understand what this means, or what you are talking about.

one race will tell that others treat them bad, while at the same time treating a third race bad themselves. no one is immune to this, it is part of what we are. doesn't make it good, but it is true.
Ditto.
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Re: Will racism ever be over?

Post by Fellowmater »

My answer is "NO". Tbh, my own parent and siblings would be termed "racist" by today's standard. However, I didn't turn out to be one explicitly even though once in a while I do unintentionally offended people of other race due to my ignorance of other culture (my interest in civilizations and science when young saved me).

You see, racism starts from the home as the brain of the young is like a sponge in their early years. When they reach school age, the education system provided by our educators is not able to do their job because parents with racist tendencies will reverse the good works of the school. Inevitably, the racist problem will be passed down from generation to generation. Our government can control what is taught in schools but not the happenings behind closed doors at home.

In my opinion, we can reduce the tension by making sure we are careful speaking with young children around, laughing at ourselves when it is basically a case of cultural ignorance, calling out outright racist incidents, and urging the government to enact laws that prohibit racism. We also must be wary of what is happening in other countries, as, in this globally connected era, we can never be completely be isolated by other countries' shortfall.
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Re: Will racism ever be over?

Post by LuckyR »

Sculptor1 wrote: August 9th, 2021, 4:50 am
mystery wrote: August 9th, 2021, 3:41 am the competition will never be over. it is built into our DNA as a species, all races.
And so is co-operation, and altruism.

multiple ways exist to win the competition, such as direct confrontation or subterfuge if/when direct confrontation fails or is sure to fail then alternative methods are used.
And multiple ways exist to integrate and accomodate such as kindness and generosity.

it is a zero-sum world.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean buy this, but it is an overused phrase.
I think I know what it means, and it is clear that it is not a zero sum world at all. If it was we'd all still be living in the trees. Co-operation is additive. It's a plus sum world, and that is how humans managed to leave Africa and colonise the entire globe.

discrimination is built into our DNA as well, all races. we treat the wealthy better than poor, they get better food and better items. we treat the pretty better than the ugly. we treat the educated better than the ignorant. human life is competition from birth till death.
Discrimination is not whooly genetic. It is mostly cultural. You have been brought uo with negative images of "young black males" every night on TV shooting, looting, and robbing. The real criminals wear smart suits and steal billions, are usually white, and they own the TV channel so you see less abou them though they do more harm.
Racism is self fulfilling, one level of prejudice leads to another- YBM have fewer job opportunities because of negative propoganda and this means that their options are fewer, crime becomes a good option, and the circle closes. holding views as you do, that discrimination is inevitable is also self fulfilling.

I see often firsthand how a race of ppl strives to copy another race. so often when the copy is complete, they hate it and go back to the old ways because the cost of the new in multiple ways is more than expected. not about wrong and write, it is about being authentic.
I do not understand what this means, or what you are talking about.

one race will tell that others treat them bad, while at the same time treating a third race bad themselves. no one is immune to this, it is part of what we are. doesn't make it good, but it is true.
Ditto.
You are right about cooperation and altruism. Problem is, it is untrue that racism stems from competition (per se). Rather racism stems from insecurity/inferiority. Everyone wants to be better than average. Problem is only 50% are. For the other 50%, their options are improving themselves or bring others down. Not everyone can bring themselves up.
"As usual... it depends."
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Re: Will racism ever be over?

Post by mystery »

Sculptor1 wrote: August 9th, 2021, 4:50 am
mystery wrote: August 9th, 2021, 3:41 am the competition will never be over. it is built into our DNA as a species, all races.
And so is co-operation, and altruism.

multiple ways exist to win the competition, such as direct confrontation or subterfuge if/when direct confrontation fails or is sure to fail then alternative methods are used.
And multiple ways exist to integrate and accomodate such as kindness and generosity.

it is a zero-sum world.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean buy this, but it is an overused phrase.
I think I know what it means, and it is clear that it is not a zero sum world at all. If it was we'd all still be living in the trees. Co-operation is additive. It's a plus sum world, and that is how humans managed to leave Africa and colonise the entire globe.
zero-sum has a specific meaning. we have a finite of stuff. stuff can be moved around but not really created. any gain is at the cost of losing some other place. think, equivalent exchange. it may take more than a moment, to realize where the loss is that equals the gain.

in the west we try to break this all the time, for example, every child is a winner complete with a blue ribbon. truth is only one is the winner. when we negotiate anything we are trying to get more and at the cost of the opponent to get less. its a general idea, you likely can sort out some exceptions but in general, it works like that, zero-sum. I use the term often because it best describes the reality of competition. In this case human competition. working together is only when it is in the best interest or is believed to be in the best interest of the actor.

yes some humans hope for reward in heaven and so accept loss easily. still a zero-sum situation.

Sculptor1 wrote: August 9th, 2021, 4:50 am
mystery wrote: August 9th, 2021, 3:41 am


discrimination is built into our DNA as well, all races. we treat the wealthy better than poor, they get better food and better items. we treat the pretty better than the ugly. we treat the educated better than the ignorant. human life is competition from birth till death.
Discrimination is not whooly genetic. It is mostly cultural. You have been brought uo with negative images of "young black males" every night on TV shooting, looting, and robbing. The real criminals wear smart suits and steal billions, are usually white, and they own the TV channel so you see less abou them though they do more harm.
Racism is self fulfilling, one level of prejudice leads to another- YBM have fewer job opportunities because of negative propoganda and this means that their options are fewer, crime becomes a good option, and the circle closes. holding views as you do, that discrimination is inevitable is also self fulfilling.
Agree it is a culture that is the grouping, I believe it is DNA/or built into us to have competition that racism (division by race) is part of. Yes, I did grow up in the situation you suggest. But since am well-traveled and have developed separate opinions. I have seen firsthand how culture works. The culture of a group of ppl that move to a different place changes in some cases. Not sure if this thread is the one for the details of each race, take a look at single mothers by race.

I have served in global organizations and seen firsthand how culture or.. race affects the decision process. It also has something to do with the first language learned, as that is how the internal thought process works. It is different depending on the first language. Inner-city English is different than suburbs. Children raised from the birth side by side with the same language usually will not be racist to the ones they know, but to yet a different race than yes. Even with identical dictation, it is easy to know the root culture of a person by the words and choices. This does not suggest good/bad, only that is different, not equal. Equivalent, yes, for sure.
Sculptor1 wrote: August 9th, 2021, 4:50 am
mystery wrote: August 9th, 2021, 3:41 am
I see often firsthand how a race of ppl strives to copy another race. so often when the copy is complete, they hate it and go back to the old ways because the cost of the new in multiple ways is more than expected. not about wrong and write, it is about being authentic.
I do not understand what this means, or what you are talking about.

one race will tell that others treat them bad, while at the same time treating a third race bad themselves. no one is immune to this, it is part of what we are. doesn't make it good, but it is true.
Ditto.
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Re: Will racism ever be over?

Post by mystery »

LuckyR wrote: August 9th, 2021, 6:48 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: August 9th, 2021, 4:50 am
mystery wrote: August 9th, 2021, 3:41 am the competition will never be over. it is built into our DNA as a species, all races.
And so is co-operation, and altruism.

multiple ways exist to win the competition, such as direct confrontation or subterfuge if/when direct confrontation fails or is sure to fail then alternative methods are used.
And multiple ways exist to integrate and accomodate such as kindness and generosity.

it is a zero-sum world.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean buy this, but it is an overused phrase.
I think I know what it means, and it is clear that it is not a zero sum world at all. If it was we'd all still be living in the trees. Co-operation is additive. It's a plus sum world, and that is how humans managed to leave Africa and colonise the entire globe.

discrimination is built into our DNA as well, all races. we treat the wealthy better than poor, they get better food and better items. we treat the pretty better than the ugly. we treat the educated better than the ignorant. human life is competition from birth till death.
Discrimination is not whooly genetic. It is mostly cultural. You have been brought uo with negative images of "young black males" every night on TV shooting, looting, and robbing. The real criminals wear smart suits and steal billions, are usually white, and they own the TV channel so you see less abou them though they do more harm.
Racism is self fulfilling, one level of prejudice leads to another- YBM have fewer job opportunities because of negative propoganda and this means that their options are fewer, crime becomes a good option, and the circle closes. holding views as you do, that discrimination is inevitable is also self fulfilling.

I see often firsthand how a race of ppl strives to copy another race. so often when the copy is complete, they hate it and go back to the old ways because the cost of the new in multiple ways is more than expected. not about wrong and write, it is about being authentic.
I do not understand what this means, or what you are talking about.

one race will tell that others treat them bad, while at the same time treating a third race bad themselves. no one is immune to this, it is part of what we are. doesn't make it good, but it is true.
Ditto.
You are right about cooperation and altruism. Problem is, it is untrue that racism stems from competition (per se). Rather racism stems from insecurity/inferiority. Everyone wants to be better than average. Problem is only 50% are. For the other 50%, their options are improving themselves or bring others down. Not everyone can bring themselves up.
Everyone wants to be better than average = competition.

I don't see how you tell competition is untrue and then define competition as the issue.
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Re: Will racism ever be over?

Post by LuckyR »

mystery wrote: August 9th, 2021, 11:51 pm
LuckyR wrote: August 9th, 2021, 6:48 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: August 9th, 2021, 4:50 am
mystery wrote: August 9th, 2021, 3:41 am the competition will never be over. it is built into our DNA as a species, all races.
And so is co-operation, and altruism.

multiple ways exist to win the competition, such as direct confrontation or subterfuge if/when direct confrontation fails or is sure to fail then alternative methods are used.
And multiple ways exist to integrate and accomodate such as kindness and generosity.

it is a zero-sum world.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean buy this, but it is an overused phrase.
I think I know what it means, and it is clear that it is not a zero sum world at all. If it was we'd all still be living in the trees. Co-operation is additive. It's a plus sum world, and that is how humans managed to leave Africa and colonise the entire globe.

discrimination is built into our DNA as well, all races. we treat the wealthy better than poor, they get better food and better items. we treat the pretty better than the ugly. we treat the educated better than the ignorant. human life is competition from birth till death.
Discrimination is not whooly genetic. It is mostly cultural. You have been brought uo with negative images of "young black males" every night on TV shooting, looting, and robbing. The real criminals wear smart suits and steal billions, are usually white, and they own the TV channel so you see less abou them though they do more harm.
Racism is self fulfilling, one level of prejudice leads to another- YBM have fewer job opportunities because of negative propoganda and this means that their options are fewer, crime becomes a good option, and the circle closes. holding views as you do, that discrimination is inevitable is also self fulfilling.

I see often firsthand how a race of ppl strives to copy another race. so often when the copy is complete, they hate it and go back to the old ways because the cost of the new in multiple ways is more than expected. not about wrong and write, it is about being authentic.
I do not understand what this means, or what you are talking about.

one race will tell that others treat them bad, while at the same time treating a third race bad themselves. no one is immune to this, it is part of what we are. doesn't make it good, but it is true.
Ditto.
You are right about cooperation and altruism. Problem is, it is untrue that racism stems from competition (per se). Rather racism stems from insecurity/inferiority. Everyone wants to be better than average. Problem is only 50% are. For the other 50%, their options are improving themselves or bring others down. Not everyone can bring themselves up.
Everyone wants to be better than average = competition.

I don't see how you tell competition is untrue and then define competition as the issue.
I apologize for being difficult to understand. I do acknowledge that competition exists. However competition exists for the excellent and the incompetent. As it happens the excellent are... well, excellent. They're happy being excellent, in fact they try to be thought of as even more excellent by being magnanimous towards the downtrodden.

The incompetent OTOH want to be excellent, yet they aren't. For some it's not a big deal, but for many they feel an inferiority complex about it and soothe their fragile egos by declaring that they at least superior to these bunch of "fill in the blank with a different race".

It's not the desire to be great, it's the inability to handle that you aren't great.
"As usual... it depends."
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