Rich countries are the Predators and Poor countries are the Prey, Do you agree?

Use this forum to discuss the December 2021 Philosophy Book of the Month, A Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir by Dr.Ghoulem Berrah
Belindi
Moderator
Posts: 6105
Joined: September 11th, 2016, 2:11 pm

Re: Rich countries are the Predators and Poor countries are the Prey, Do you agree?

Post by Belindi »

GE Morton wrote: February 2nd, 2022, 8:55 pm
Belindi wrote: February 2nd, 2022, 4:32 pm
But the claims are well known.
To you, perhaps. Not, I suspect, to most of your readers.
This is not a proper place to instruct you.
Of course it is.

You're still shirking that intellectual obligation.
It's not my place to instruct anyone whether or not they keep abreast of current psychology.
GE Morton
Posts: 4696
Joined: February 1st, 2017, 1:06 am

Re: Rich countries are the Predators and Poor countries are the Prey, Do you agree?

Post by GE Morton »

Belindi wrote: February 2nd, 2022, 9:02 pm
It's not my place to instruct anyone whether or not they keep abreast of current psychology.
It is your place to provide arguments and evidence for any claims you make. Usually, a citation or two will satisfy that obligation.
Belindi
Moderator
Posts: 6105
Joined: September 11th, 2016, 2:11 pm

Re: Rich countries are the Predators and Poor countries are the Prey, Do you agree?

Post by Belindi »

GE Morton wrote: February 2nd, 2022, 9:19 pm
Belindi wrote: February 2nd, 2022, 9:02 pm
It's not my place to instruct anyone whether or not they keep abreast of current psychology.
It is your place to provide arguments and evidence for any claims you make. Usually, a citation or two will satisfy that obligation.
So it would be if I were tutoring students, or writing an academic thesis. But this forum is neither of these.
Ecurb
Posts: 2138
Joined: May 9th, 2012, 3:13 pm

Re: Rich countries are the Predators and Poor countries are the Prey, Do you agree?

Post by Ecurb »

Belindi wrote: February 2nd, 2022, 9:18 am Ecurb wrote regarding The Golden Rule: ↑January 30th, 2022, 1:41 pm
This version is subject to more objections than the original. Should a good-looking woman have sex with everyone who wants to bed her?
The basic freedom and creativity is aimed at oneself and one's survival. You can't help another when you are not also helping yourself. In your particular example the good -looking woman lacks an important survival skill which is a part of human freedom and creativity.

Illustration from The Bible:
New King James Version
So he said to them: “Out of the eater came something to eat, And out of the strong came something sweet.” Now for three days they could not explain the riddle.

It means that it's a condition of being able to help somebody else that you yourself are strong enough to do so. In your example the men who take advantage of the woman are not helping either themselves or the woman, and are unfree as they are subject,not to reason or empathy, but to emotional reaction which is a chemical process.
Obviously I meant my example to simply show that literal interpretation of Pattern's version of the Golden Rule leads to errors, just as literal interpretation of Jesus's does (as GE pointed out). Both need to tempered by common sense. If someone cooks a lobster dinner for you because you love lobster. you "should" cook his or her favorite food for him. If he's allergic to shell fish, lobster doesn't qualify. Some level of abstraction is necessary in both cases.

The answer to Samson's riddle (which Belindi quotes above) is that Samson killed a lion, and bees made a hive in its dead carcass, producing honey. Of course implied meanings can be intuited.

"Empathy" always seems condescending to me. Sympathy suggests, "We're in this together". "Sym" = "together"; "pathos" - "feelings, especially of sadness or pain." Empathy suggests, "I know how you feel. I understand " I can see why psychologists like the word -- it elevates them and their profession. They are professional empaths (supposedly, at least). But if I were in pain and someone said, "I know how you feel." I would be tempted to say, "No you don't. I don't even know how or what I feel myself. How can you know?" GE's quote from Paul Bloom ("We often think of our capacity to experience the suffering of others as the ultimate source of goodness.") is more about sympathy than empathy. Empaths (acc. most defintiions) don't "experience the suffering of others"; they understand it. Sympathetic people don't experience the feelings of others either (how could they?) but they share them. A "sympathy" card basically says, "You're sad, and I'm sad too.". An"empathy card" (thank goodness they don't exist) would say, "You're sad, and I, genius that I am, understand exactly how you feel." (OK, I'm exaggerating a little to make my point.)

I admit that I know little about how "empathy" is used as jargon in psychology or pop psychology. I'm referring to its standard English definition.
User avatar
Pattern-chaser
Premium Member
Posts: 8268
Joined: September 22nd, 2019, 5:17 am
Favorite Philosopher: Cratylus
Location: England

Re: Rich countries are the Predators and Poor countries are the Prey, Do you agree?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Greatest I am wrote: February 2nd, 2022, 3:34 pm Take the shark away from the reefs and the reef dies.

Man praying on man is how man gets fitter.
No, man preying on man is how men get sharper teeth (to continue your shark analogy).


Greatest I am wrote: February 2nd, 2022, 3:34 pm Man not praying on man would be extremely bad for mankind.
How so? Man preying on man makes us more successful predators - those who survive, that is - but nothing more than that.

Your perspective seems to be little more than a justification for 'might makes right'...?
Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"
User avatar
Pattern-chaser
Premium Member
Posts: 8268
Joined: September 22nd, 2019, 5:17 am
Favorite Philosopher: Cratylus
Location: England

Re: Rich countries are the Predators and Poor countries are the Prey, Do you agree?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

GE Morton wrote: February 2nd, 2022, 9:19 pm It is your place to provide arguments and evidence for any claims you make.
No it isn't. We are free to post here as we wish. If you find someone's posts unacceptable in some way, it's up to you what you do about it.
Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"
User avatar
Greatest I am
Posts: 1264
Joined: October 3rd, 2012, 7:29 pm

Re: Rich countries are the Predators and Poor countries are the Prey, Do you agree?

Post by Greatest I am »

Pattern-chaser wrote: February 3rd, 2022, 12:38 pm
Greatest I am wrote: February 2nd, 2022, 3:34 pm Take the shark away from the reefs and the reef dies.

Man praying on man is how man gets fitter.
No, man preying on man is how men get sharper teeth (to continue your shark analogy).
That is a great benefit is it not?

Fitter is fitter.
Greatest I am wrote: February 2nd, 2022, 3:34 pm Man not praying on man would be extremely bad for mankind.
How so? Man preying on man makes us more successful predators - those who survive, that is - but nothing more than that.
More fit, yes.

That is what I said above and you did not seem to want to accept that fact as good.
Your perspective seems to be little more than a justification for 'might makes right'...?
Might from above, increases the fitness of the reef.

Challenges increase fitness, if it doe not kill, as you seem to know.

That fitness is why predation can be seen as good.

Regards
DL
User avatar
Pattern-chaser
Premium Member
Posts: 8268
Joined: September 22nd, 2019, 5:17 am
Favorite Philosopher: Cratylus
Location: England

Re: Rich countries are the Predators and Poor countries are the Prey, Do you agree?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Greatest I am wrote: February 2nd, 2022, 3:34 pm Take the shark away from the reefs and the reef dies.

Man praying on man is how man gets fitter.
Pattern-chaser wrote: February 3rd, 2022, 12:38 pm No, man preying on man is how men get sharper teeth (to continue your shark analogy).
Greatest I am wrote: February 3rd, 2022, 12:54 pm That is a great benefit is it not?

Fitter is fitter.
Only if 'fitness' means having sharper teeth, and nothing else. The ability to stalk prey, unseen, for example, might also be seen to contribute to 'fitness'. There are many other attributes that might also benefit us, I think. Your perspective seems to ignore this...?
Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"
GE Morton
Posts: 4696
Joined: February 1st, 2017, 1:06 am

Re: Rich countries are the Predators and Poor countries are the Prey, Do you agree?

Post by GE Morton »

Pattern-chaser wrote: February 3rd, 2022, 12:42 pm
GE Morton wrote: February 2nd, 2022, 9:19 pm It is your place to provide arguments and evidence for any claims you make.
No it isn't. We are free to post here as we wish. If you find someone's posts unacceptable in some way, it's up to you what you do about it.
It's not an issue of freedom, PC. We're free to post whatever the moderators will tolerate. The issue is abiding by the concept and purpose of the forum, which is reasoned debate of philosophical issues, which entails rational arguments and evidence. That is what distinguishes this forum from Facebook (which consists mainly of roobs blurting uninformed opinions).
EricPH
Posts: 449
Joined: October 22nd, 2021, 11:26 am

Re: Rich countries are the Predators and Poor countries are the Prey, Do you agree?

Post by EricPH »

Greatest I am wrote: February 3rd, 2022, 12:54 pm
Might from above, increases the fitness of the reef.

Challenges increase fitness, if it doe not kill, as you seem to know.

We allow a child to die from starvation, abject poverty and preventable disease ever five seconds. That is around a Holocaust every year.

About eight hundred million people go to bed hungry.

And we allow this to happen. This shows what an uncaring society we live in.

That fitness is why predation can be seen as good.
Evolution and fitness have a lot to answer for.
Ecurb
Posts: 2138
Joined: May 9th, 2012, 3:13 pm

Re: Rich countries are the Predators and Poor countries are the Prey, Do you agree?

Post by Ecurb »

Greatest I am wrote: February 3rd, 2022, 12:54 pm

Might from above, increases the fitness of the reef.

Challenges increase fitness, if it doe not kill, as you seem to know.

That fitness is why predation can be seen as good.

Regards
DL
Yet in Darwinian terms the predatory nations seem to be LESS fit than those beong preyed upon. Most rich nations have reached zero population growth; the birth rates in Africa and other third world countries are far higher, and the population increases (even given lower life expectancies) far more rapid. Perhaps predation (it seems) LOWERS fitness, and being preyed upon INCREASES it.
Good_Egg
Posts: 782
Joined: January 27th, 2022, 5:12 am

Re: Rich countries are the Predators and Poor countries are the Prey, Do you agree?

Post by Good_Egg »

EricPH wrote: February 3rd, 2022, 2:24 pm We allow a child to die from starvation, abject poverty and preventable disease ever five seconds. That is around a Holocaust every year.

About eight hundred million people go to bed hungry.

And we allow this to happen. This shows what an uncaring society we live in.
Is "an uncaring society" a society of uncaring people ? Are you an uncaring person because there are many good causes which you choose not to donate to while living your Western lifestyle ?

Or is "an uncaring society" one that somehow prevents the compassion of all the many caring individual people from being converted into effective action ? How exactly is the structure of society impeding you in your desire to do good works ?

Which is it ?
"Opinions are fiercest.. ..when the evidence to support or refute them is weakest" - Druin Burch
Belindi
Moderator
Posts: 6105
Joined: September 11th, 2016, 2:11 pm

Re: Rich countries are the Predators and Poor countries are the Prey, Do you agree?

Post by Belindi »

GE Morton wrote: February 3rd, 2022, 2:09 pm
Pattern-chaser wrote: February 3rd, 2022, 12:42 pm
GE Morton wrote: February 2nd, 2022, 9:19 pm It is your place to provide arguments and evidence for any claims you make.
No it isn't. We are free to post here as we wish. If you find someone's posts unacceptable in some way, it's up to you what you do about it.
It's not an issue of freedom, PC. We're free to post whatever the moderators will tolerate. The issue is abiding by the concept and purpose of the forum, which is reasoned debate of philosophical issues, which entails rational arguments and evidence. That is what distinguishes this forum from Facebook (which consists mainly of roobs blurting uninformed opinions).
But you don't need me to provide evidence that there once were dinosaurs, that glaciers are melting, that there are fewer species than ten years ago,that species evolved by natural selection, etc. such claims are common knowledge.

However if GEM will remind me what I claimed that he requires evidence for I will oblige.
User avatar
Pattern-chaser
Premium Member
Posts: 8268
Joined: September 22nd, 2019, 5:17 am
Favorite Philosopher: Cratylus
Location: England

Re: Rich countries are the Predators and Poor countries are the Prey, Do you agree?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

GE Morton wrote: February 2nd, 2022, 9:19 pm It is your place to provide arguments and evidence for any claims you make.
Pattern-chaser wrote: February 3rd, 2022, 12:42 pm No it isn't. We are free to post here as we wish. If you find someone's posts unacceptable in some way, it's up to you what you do about it.
GE Morton wrote: February 3rd, 2022, 2:09 pm It's not an issue of freedom, PC. We're free to post whatever the moderators will tolerate. The issue is abiding by the concept and purpose of the forum, which is reasoned debate of philosophical issues, which entails rational arguments and evidence. That is what distinguishes this forum from Facebook (which consists mainly of roobs blurting uninformed opinions).
I'm not advocating anarchy, or even Libertarian freedom from coercion - 😋 - I'm just objecting to this 'burden of proof' thing. If I'm discussing something with you, I make my case, as you do. If my case should lack proof, it weakens my case, and maybe your argument comes out the stronger. It's my choice how well I support my case, but there is no 'burden'.

I find "You said it, so you must offer proof" to resemble a playground chant, often used to distract attention from the argument itself. It's a bugbear of mine.
Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"
GE Morton
Posts: 4696
Joined: February 1st, 2017, 1:06 am

Re: Rich countries are the Predators and Poor countries are the Prey, Do you agree?

Post by GE Morton »

Belindi wrote: February 4th, 2022, 6:13 am
However if GEM will remind me what I claimed that he requires evidence for I will oblige.
It was the following claim: "Empathy can be taught both intellectually and affectively."
Post Reply

Return to “A Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir by Dr.Ghoulem Berrah”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021