Are all definitions which are accepted today scientifically supported? Do they become inappropriate if they are scientifically not supported? Could you please mention such an appropriate definition for the discussion, including the references. Thank youstevie wrote: ↑February 20th, 2022, 4:55 amAn appropriate definition is one that takes into consideration current scientific knowledge. An appropriate definition should refer to absolutely and relatively free will.Sushan wrote: ↑February 18th, 2022, 10:22 pmIn that case could you please mention an appropriate definition. By the way, what is the demarcation of a definition being appropriate vs inappropriate? If it is the source of reference, then I think Encyclopedia Britannica is a reliable one.stevie wrote: ↑February 14th, 2022, 3:05 amI don't take inappropriate definitions as reference when talking about the definiendum.Sushan wrote: ↑February 13th, 2022, 5:07 am
The given definition maybe insane. But the idea of free will should be such a one. Earlier this concept was used in a religious background, to say that God does not interfere in human actions since He has granted them with free will. So, if such free will has become a relative concept now, can we consider of us as beings with a free will?
What is 'Free will'?
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Re: What is 'Free will'?
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Re: What is 'Free will'?
Well some people have some very naive views about how free will is usable. Obviously, for example, we cannot fly without getting in a vehicle. Choices are always limited. Limit of choice does not mean choice does not exist. As to whether it is deterministic, as one gets older, one discovers on the whole, it is. That doesn't mean people aren't exercising free will. It just means it is also predictable. That makes its absolute existence or not really a matter of opinion.
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Re: What is 'Free will'?
Don't know but if not that's their deficiency.Sushan wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2022, 12:57 pmAre all definitions which are accepted today scientifically supported?stevie wrote: ↑February 20th, 2022, 4:55 amAn appropriate definition is one that takes into consideration current scientific knowledge. An appropriate definition should refer to absolutely and relatively free will.
Yes.
What? I don't understand your verbal expression.
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Re: What is 'Free will'?
While what we can do is limited, Free Will addresses decision making, not the ability to put the decision into practice.ernestm wrote: ↑February 24th, 2022, 3:22 amWell some people have some very naive views about how free will is usable. Obviously, for example, we cannot fly without getting in a vehicle. Choices are always limited. Limit of choice does not mean choice does not exist. As to whether it is deterministic, as one gets older, one discovers on the whole, it is. That doesn't mean people aren't exercising free will. It just means it is also predictable. That makes its absolute existence or not really a matter of opinion.
If I decide to have pancakes for breakfast, my exercising of my Will is not dependent on the contents of my cupboard.
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Re: What is 'Free will'?
that puts wishful thinking in the category of freedom of will, I guess )LuckyR wrote: ↑February 24th, 2022, 5:52 pmWhile what we can do is limited, Free Will addresses decision making, not the ability to put the decision into practice.ernestm wrote: ↑February 24th, 2022, 3:22 amWell some people have some very naive views about how free will is usable. Obviously, for example, we cannot fly without getting in a vehicle. Choices are always limited. Limit of choice does not mean choice does not exist. As to whether it is deterministic, as one gets older, one discovers on the whole, it is. That doesn't mean people aren't exercising free will. It just means it is also predictable. That makes its absolute existence or not really a matter of opinion.
If I decide to have pancakes for breakfast, my exercising of my Will is not dependent on the contents of my cupboard.
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Re: What is 'Free will'?
Choices and abilities are two different things. Human cannot fly, and that is a limitation of ability. And it is not a skill that one can learn. Thinking that we should have been able to have any ability to exercise free will is quite absurd. I think it should be the ability to exert whatever the choice that we make which lies within our scope of abilities.ernestm wrote: ↑February 24th, 2022, 3:22 amWell some people have some very naive views about how free will is usable. Obviously, for example, we cannot fly without getting in a vehicle. Choices are always limited. Limit of choice does not mean choice does not exist. As to whether it is deterministic, as one gets older, one discovers on the whole, it is. That doesn't mean people aren't exercising free will. It just means it is also predictable. That makes its absolute existence or not really a matter of opinion.
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Re: What is 'Free will'?
I agree. There are many ways to achieve a single goal. You can either make pancakes or buy them from outside. And you can choose to buy ingredients if your cupboard is empty when you decide to have pancakes.LuckyR wrote: ↑February 24th, 2022, 5:52 pmWhile what we can do is limited, Free Will addresses decision making, not the ability to put the decision into practice.ernestm wrote: ↑February 24th, 2022, 3:22 amWell some people have some very naive views about how free will is usable. Obviously, for example, we cannot fly without getting in a vehicle. Choices are always limited. Limit of choice does not mean choice does not exist. As to whether it is deterministic, as one gets older, one discovers on the whole, it is. That doesn't mean people aren't exercising free will. It just means it is also predictable. That makes its absolute existence or not really a matter of opinion.
If I decide to have pancakes for breakfast, my exercising of my Will is not dependent on the contents of my cupboard.
Maybe free will is totally about the ability to make decisions. But the consequences (the knowledge about them) always make us hesitant to go straight away to a decision.
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Re: What is 'Free will'?
ernestm wrote: ↑February 24th, 2022, 7:01 pmthat puts wishful thinking in the category of freedom of will, I guess )LuckyR wrote: ↑February 24th, 2022, 5:52 pmWhile what we can do is limited, Free Will addresses decision making, not the ability to put the decision into practice.ernestm wrote: ↑February 24th, 2022, 3:22 amWell some people have some very naive views about how free will is usable. Obviously, for example, we cannot fly without getting in a vehicle. Choices are always limited. Limit of choice does not mean choice does not exist. As to whether it is deterministic, as one gets older, one discovers on the whole, it is. That doesn't mean people aren't exercising free will. It just means it is also predictable. That makes its absolute existence or not really a matter of opinion.
If I decide to have pancakes for breakfast, my exercising of my Will is not dependent on the contents of my cupboard.
Encyclopedia BritannicaWishful thinking - an attitude or belief that something you want to happen will happen even though it is not likely or possible.
According to this definition wishful thinking is just a feeling of something happening as per our wish, although the possibilities are quite low. As per my understanding it is different from freedom of will.
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Re: What is 'Free will'?
Exactly, a deaf person can make a decision on which station the radio should be set.ernestm wrote: ↑February 24th, 2022, 7:01 pmthat puts wishful thinking in the category of freedom of will, I guess )LuckyR wrote: ↑February 24th, 2022, 5:52 pmWhile what we can do is limited, Free Will addresses decision making, not the ability to put the decision into practice.ernestm wrote: ↑February 24th, 2022, 3:22 amWell some people have some very naive views about how free will is usable. Obviously, for example, we cannot fly without getting in a vehicle. Choices are always limited. Limit of choice does not mean choice does not exist. As to whether it is deterministic, as one gets older, one discovers on the whole, it is. That doesn't mean people aren't exercising free will. It just means it is also predictable. That makes its absolute existence or not really a matter of opinion.
If I decide to have pancakes for breakfast, my exercising of my Will is not dependent on the contents of my cupboard.
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Re: What is 'Free will'?
Very true. A brain in a jar can make decisions in the absence of a body to perform any task.Sushan wrote: ↑February 24th, 2022, 11:50 pmI agree. There are many ways to achieve a single goal. You can either make pancakes or buy them from outside. And you can choose to buy ingredients if your cupboard is empty when you decide to have pancakes.LuckyR wrote: ↑February 24th, 2022, 5:52 pmWhile what we can do is limited, Free Will addresses decision making, not the ability to put the decision into practice.ernestm wrote: ↑February 24th, 2022, 3:22 amWell some people have some very naive views about how free will is usable. Obviously, for example, we cannot fly without getting in a vehicle. Choices are always limited. Limit of choice does not mean choice does not exist. As to whether it is deterministic, as one gets older, one discovers on the whole, it is. That doesn't mean people aren't exercising free will. It just means it is also predictable. That makes its absolute existence or not really a matter of opinion.
If I decide to have pancakes for breakfast, my exercising of my Will is not dependent on the contents of my cupboard.
Maybe free will is totally about the ability to make decisions. But the consequences (the knowledge about them) always make us hesitant to go straight away to a decision.
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Re: What is 'Free will'?
I am not certain whether wishful thinking speaks about a person wishing for things that he/she cannot achieve. But at the same time, yes, a deaf person can decide to set the radio channel. If he is living alone and there is no one to hinder his decision, then it is an absolute possibility. He can even choose to dance to the songs (imaginative songs). Free will and freedom to act can be fully exerted when you are alone, despite the usefulness of your wills and acts.LuckyR wrote: ↑February 25th, 2022, 3:04 amExactly, a deaf person can make a decision on which station the radio should be set.ernestm wrote: ↑February 24th, 2022, 7:01 pmthat puts wishful thinking in the category of freedom of will, I guess )LuckyR wrote: ↑February 24th, 2022, 5:52 pmWhile what we can do is limited, Free Will addresses decision making, not the ability to put the decision into practice.ernestm wrote: ↑February 24th, 2022, 3:22 am
Well some people have some very naive views about how free will is usable. Obviously, for example, we cannot fly without getting in a vehicle. Choices are always limited. Limit of choice does not mean choice does not exist. As to whether it is deterministic, as one gets older, one discovers on the whole, it is. That doesn't mean people aren't exercising free will. It just means it is also predictable. That makes its absolute existence or not really a matter of opinion.
If I decide to have pancakes for breakfast, my exercising of my Will is not dependent on the contents of my cupboard.
– William James
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Re: What is 'Free will'?
Yes, we are free to think without any limitations. For an example you can imagine the most horrible things that you can do or can happen to your haters. But the moment you word your thoughts you might find yourself in a lunatic asylum, or if you choose to act upon them you will find yourself in a jail.LuckyR wrote: ↑February 25th, 2022, 3:07 amVery true. A brain in a jar can make decisions in the absence of a body to perform any task.Sushan wrote: ↑February 24th, 2022, 11:50 pmI agree. There are many ways to achieve a single goal. You can either make pancakes or buy them from outside. And you can choose to buy ingredients if your cupboard is empty when you decide to have pancakes.LuckyR wrote: ↑February 24th, 2022, 5:52 pmWhile what we can do is limited, Free Will addresses decision making, not the ability to put the decision into practice.ernestm wrote: ↑February 24th, 2022, 3:22 am
Well some people have some very naive views about how free will is usable. Obviously, for example, we cannot fly without getting in a vehicle. Choices are always limited. Limit of choice does not mean choice does not exist. As to whether it is deterministic, as one gets older, one discovers on the whole, it is. That doesn't mean people aren't exercising free will. It just means it is also predictable. That makes its absolute existence or not really a matter of opinion.
If I decide to have pancakes for breakfast, my exercising of my Will is not dependent on the contents of my cupboard.
Maybe free will is totally about the ability to make decisions. But the consequences (the knowledge about them) always make us hesitant to go straight away to a decision.
– William James
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Re: What is 'Free will'?
Well I did think about this. Many people believe the decisions they make regarding their own beliefs as necessarily true, for reasons of personal integrity. As a philosopher I refrain from decision making on many issues of belief, to maintain my own personal integrity.
One could certainly regard refraining from making a decision as making a decision, but it rather obliterates the MEANING of decision making. It appears to me free will exists as an antecedent to decision making, and it not defined by EITHER by making decisions, OR by "putting the decision into practice." I would tend to view 'free will' as a property possessed by consciousness, and decision making as a process that is available to consciousness, should it so choose, as a consequence of the property. I don't view people as 'possessing' free will at all time. It is not a permanent property of consciousness, but transitory property, depending on one's state.
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Re: What is 'Free will'?
I don't disagree with you that Free Will is not the practice of decision making. Rather decision making is the most obvious (and as it happens, the best) example of Free Will in practice.ernestm wrote: ↑February 25th, 2022, 11:01 pmWell I did think about this. Many people believe the decisions they make regarding their own beliefs as necessarily true, for reasons of personal integrity. As a philosopher I refrain from decision making on many issues of belief, to maintain my own personal integrity.
One could certainly regard refraining from making a decision as making a decision, but it rather obliterates the MEANING of decision making. It appears to me free will exists as an antecedent to decision making, and it not defined by EITHER by making decisions, OR by "putting the decision into practice." I would tend to view 'free will' as a property possessed by consciousness, and decision making as a process that is available to consciousness, should it so choose, as a consequence of the property. I don't view people as 'possessing' free will at all time. It is not a permanent property of consciousness, but transitory property, depending on one's state.
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Re: What is 'Free will'?
I mean human will is the psychological will we're born with. Desires are innate in us -- so this must be one of the driving force in the will. I have a desire to climb a mountain, so my attempts at doing so represent my will.
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