Reluctance to change vs feeling humiliated (or jealousy)

Use this forum to discuss the February 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, Free Will, Do You Have It? by Albertus Kral
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Sushan
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Re: Reluctance to change vs feeling humiliated (or jealousy)

Post by Sushan »

LuckyR wrote: February 24th, 2022, 12:57 pm
EricPH wrote: February 24th, 2022, 2:55 am
Sushan wrote: February 23rd, 2022, 1:06 pm
EricPH wrote: February 18th, 2022, 11:02 am

There is probably far more evidence to show smoking is bad, than there is evidence to say how the Big Bang happened. Millions choose to ignore the science.
I think it is a habit or a choice more than ignorance. Almost all smokers 🚬 know the health hazards of their habit. But they do not try to stop it because they are used to it. We see how many of them even openly speak about their illnesses which has caused by smoking, yet they never quit. Human mind and behaviour is very much difficult to understand.
Having been a smoker, I think the first cigarette was a choice. Every smoke afterwards helps to reinforce the addiction, it is incredibly hard to break free.

Even after a forty year break, I sense that having just one smoke will send me back into addiction.

I was in my late forties when I started to search for God. Things then started to happen that reinforced those beliefs. I guess we justify to ourselves what we want to believe. Belief in God could be considered to be like an addiction we choose to feed.

We can't really be judged on what we believe. But we can be judged on what our beliefs inspire us to do.
Addressing smoking without mentioning it's addicting nature is misleading at best. Just as using the word "choice" to address issues that have addiction as a major facet, without also mentioning it's heavy influence is also misleading.
Partially agreed. When it is the tenth cigarette I don't think 'choice' has a big say in it, but it is mostly driven by the addiction. And when it is the hundredth, there may be no room for 'choice' at all.

I have never smoked. So I think first cigarette is a choice and anyone have the power to choose either to have it or not, with no influence from the 'addiction' at all.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: Reluctance to change vs feeling humiliated (or jealousy)

Post by LuckyR »

Sushan wrote: February 25th, 2022, 1:30 am
LuckyR wrote: February 24th, 2022, 12:57 pm
EricPH wrote: February 24th, 2022, 2:55 am
Sushan wrote: February 23rd, 2022, 1:06 pm

I think it is a habit or a choice more than ignorance. Almost all smokers 🚬 know the health hazards of their habit. But they do not try to stop it because they are used to it. We see how many of them even openly speak about their illnesses which has caused by smoking, yet they never quit. Human mind and behaviour is very much difficult to understand.
Having been a smoker, I think the first cigarette was a choice. Every smoke afterwards helps to reinforce the addiction, it is incredibly hard to break free.

Even after a forty year break, I sense that having just one smoke will send me back into addiction.

I was in my late forties when I started to search for God. Things then started to happen that reinforced those beliefs. I guess we justify to ourselves what we want to believe. Belief in God could be considered to be like an addiction we choose to feed.

We can't really be judged on what we believe. But we can be judged on what our beliefs inspire us to do.
Addressing smoking without mentioning it's addicting nature is misleading at best. Just as using the word "choice" to address issues that have addiction as a major facet, without also mentioning it's heavy influence is also misleading.
Partially agreed. When it is the tenth cigarette I don't think 'choice' has a big say in it, but it is mostly driven by the addiction. And when it is the hundredth, there may be no room for 'choice' at all.

I have never smoked. So I think first cigarette is a choice and anyone have the power to choose either to have it or not, with no influence from the 'addiction' at all.
I think we understand each other. Even the totally addicted person has choice... but it is much less choice than the non addicted person.
"As usual... it depends."
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Sushan
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Re: Reluctance to change vs feeling humiliated (or jealousy)

Post by Sushan »

LuckyR wrote: February 25th, 2022, 3:10 am
Sushan wrote: February 25th, 2022, 1:30 am
LuckyR wrote: February 24th, 2022, 12:57 pm
EricPH wrote: February 24th, 2022, 2:55 am

Having been a smoker, I think the first cigarette was a choice. Every smoke afterwards helps to reinforce the addiction, it is incredibly hard to break free.

Even after a forty year break, I sense that having just one smoke will send me back into addiction.

I was in my late forties when I started to search for God. Things then started to happen that reinforced those beliefs. I guess we justify to ourselves what we want to believe. Belief in God could be considered to be like an addiction we choose to feed.

We can't really be judged on what we believe. But we can be judged on what our beliefs inspire us to do.
Addressing smoking without mentioning it's addicting nature is misleading at best. Just as using the word "choice" to address issues that have addiction as a major facet, without also mentioning it's heavy influence is also misleading.
Partially agreed. When it is the tenth cigarette I don't think 'choice' has a big say in it, but it is mostly driven by the addiction. And when it is the hundredth, there may be no room for 'choice' at all.

I have never smoked. So I think first cigarette is a choice and anyone have the power to choose either to have it or not, with no influence from the 'addiction' at all.
I think we understand each other. Even the totally addicted person has choice... but it is much less choice than the non addicted person.
Yes, it is ultimately about how strong one's power of will, and how he/she choose to exert it. It is easier to treat the addicts who have a strong will to quit than those who are just brought to treatment by their families against the wish of the addict.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
EricPH
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Re: Reluctance to change vs feeling humiliated (or jealousy)

Post by EricPH »

Sushan wrote: February 25th, 2022, 1:24 am
EricPH wrote: February 24th, 2022, 2:55 am
Sushan wrote: February 23rd, 2022, 1:06 pm
EricPH wrote: February 18th, 2022, 11:02 am

There is probably far more evidence to show smoking is bad, than there is evidence to say how the Big Bang happened. Millions choose to ignore the science.
I think it is a habit or a choice more than ignorance. Almost all smokers 🚬 know the health hazards of their habit. But they do not try to stop it because they are used to it. We see how many of them even openly speak about their illnesses which has caused by smoking, yet they never quit. Human mind and behaviour is very much difficult to understand.
Having been a smoker, I think the first cigarette was a choice. Every smoke afterwards helps to reinforce the addiction, it is incredibly hard to break free.

Even after a forty year break, I sense that having just one smoke will send me back into addiction.

I was in my late forties when I started to search for God. Things then started to happen that reinforced those beliefs. I guess we justify to ourselves what we want to believe. Belief in God could be considered to be like an addiction we choose to feed.

We can't really be judged on what we believe. But we can be judged on what our beliefs inspire us to do.
Seeking and believing in God can be named as an addiction, but may not be considered as an addiction for real depending on how addiction is defined. And also I think it is not fair to compare these two addictions, addiction to cigarettes and addiction to God, because cigarettes actually have the ability to make the user addicted to it while God does not have such a control over His followers.
Before you have your first smoke, cigarettes have no power over you, so it is more your choice. If you have an addictive nature, you have less power and less choice when you consider a second smoke.
They say of addiction, that one is too many, and twenty is not enough. Having smoked the first cigarette, this makes the second easy. That is why even after forty years of not smoking, I am afraid to have one.

I see faith and trust in God as a positive kind of addiction. I have found happiness, joy, more compassion and a peace that surpasses all my understanding. The more you find to be thankful for, the more you seem to be at peace.

Fear, worry, anxiety are possibly the default choice to many events in our life. But they are not the only choice. In these same circumstances you can still search for peace.
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Re: Reluctance to change vs feeling humiliated (or jealousy)

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Sushan wrote: February 17th, 2022, 11:46 pm
It is true that everyone do not accept scientific evidence, despite how well they are proven. But that does not make those 'facts' just beliefs. I think it is better to believe objective evidence like scientific evidence, rather than believing in things which people used to believe just because they were there for a long period, even with no real ground for their existence.
I think a lot of people miss this nature of belief -- as in, belief is a human motivation which may or may not correlate with facts. Just because there are facts, it doesn't mean that people will have the belief in them. Yes, I know it's hard to take it especially with what we call strong scientific discoveries and findings.

Even in court cases where a person was proven to be innocent given evidence and facts, some people would continue to believe in the person's guilt. Have you heard of the stigma of being accused of being a molester -- falsely accused people would continue to suffer the side effects of that accusation. Yet they're innocent.

People believe in the Holy Ghost. Is there a concrete evidence to back this up?
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Re: Reluctance to change vs feeling humiliated (or jealousy)

Post by LuckyR »

Elephant wrote: March 1st, 2022, 10:56 pm
Sushan wrote: February 17th, 2022, 11:46 pm
It is true that everyone do not accept scientific evidence, despite how well they are proven. But that does not make those 'facts' just beliefs. I think it is better to believe objective evidence like scientific evidence, rather than believing in things which people used to believe just because they were there for a long period, even with no real ground for their existence.
I think a lot of people miss this nature of belief -- as in, belief is a human motivation which may or may not correlate with facts. Just because there are facts, it doesn't mean that people will have the belief in them. Yes, I know it's hard to take it especially with what we call strong scientific discoveries and findings.

Even in court cases where a person was proven to be innocent given evidence and facts, some people would continue to believe in the person's guilt. Have you heard of the stigma of being accused of being a molester -- falsely accused people would continue to suffer the side effects of that accusation. Yet they're innocent.

People believe in the Holy Ghost. Is there a concrete evidence to back this up?
Basically it boils down to the reality that minds are pretty good at evaluating data especially when it comes in patterns, yet minds are also easily fooled because of this pattern recognition. So we have the capacity to understand proofs and evidence while also can be manipulated into believing falsehoods.
"As usual... it depends."
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Re: Reluctance to change vs feeling humiliated (or jealousy)

Post by Elephant »

LuckyR wrote: March 2nd, 2022, 2:06 am
Basically it boils down to the reality that minds are pretty good at evaluating data especially when it comes in patterns, yet minds are also easily fooled because of this pattern recognition. So we have the capacity to understand proofs and evidence while also can be manipulated into believing falsehoods.
Because we let our minds be freer outside the constraints of reality. And I think we believe that if our minds can think it, it can come true. I mean you've heard of fictionalized portal, an entrance to the other side of reality. There are people who actually spend their time looking for one. In the city, of all places. That somewhere in buildings or houses, they would stumble upon this portal and they could enter it and experience what's on the other side of reality.
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Re: Reluctance to change vs feeling humiliated (or jealousy)

Post by EricPH »

Elephant wrote: March 1st, 2022, 10:56 pm People believe in the Holy Ghost. Is there a concrete evidence to back this up?
No, but we have faith and trust that the Holy Spirit exists.

As always; we sift the evidence we want to believe so that we might justify our actions. There is real science and medical evidence that smoking is harmful. Millions choose to ignore this evidence and smoke anyway.

Which is more harmful; smoking or believing in the Holy Spirit?
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Re: Reluctance to change vs feeling humiliated (or jealousy)

Post by Elephant »

EricPH wrote: March 3rd, 2022, 2:27 pm
No, but we have faith and trust that the Holy Spirit exists.

As always; we sift the evidence we want to believe so that we might justify our actions. There is real science and medical evidence that smoking is harmful. Millions choose to ignore this evidence and smoke anyway.

Which is more harmful; smoking or believing in the Holy Spirit?
True. And I also made a similar opinion in my previous post.
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