Why people relate things to themselves that do not directly involve them and react to them?

Use this forum to discuss the March 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, My Enemy in Vietnam by Billy Springer
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Sushan
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Why people relate things to themselves that do not directly involve them and react to them?

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This topic is about the March 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, My Enemy in Vietnam by Billy Springer


I feared for my life every day, not from the Viet Cong. I had to watch my back 24-7 from men who wore the same uniform as me. At first, it made me bitter. I failed to find any connection between the racial tensions in the USA and black troops serving in Vietnam. How could I be held responsible for the conduct of other people more than 10,000 miles from me, people I had never even met?
_Billy Springer_


Billy explains how he was affected by racial discrimination even when he was miles away from his country, on an enemy land. Usually, soldiers have a great bond between them, and ideally it should be strengthened when they are in a foreign land, close to enemy lines. But Billy has experienced the opposite. His comrades made him suspicious of the possibility of a backstabbing by his fellow men. All these were because nothing else, but the racial uneasiness and civil rights movement in US, in which neither Billy nor his comrades were directly involved in.

This quality is commonly seen in humans. People tend to relate common issues to their own selves although they are not directly affected by or involved in those issues. And it is highly seen in religious and racial matters.

Why people tend to do so? Is it a feeling of unity? Or is it the feeling of doing the righteous thing against unfair treatment? Or is it merely use of an excuse to suppress the minority?
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
stevie
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Re: Why people relate things to themselves that do not directly involve them and react to them?

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Sushan wrote: March 3rd, 2022, 8:39 am Why people tend to do so? Is it a feeling of unity? Or is it the feeling of doing the righteous thing against unfair treatment? Or is it merely use of an excuse to suppress the minority?
it's cultural conditioning. Cultural conditioning causes illusory experiences. The self identifies with phenomena that have nothing to do with it.
mankind ... must act and reason and believe; though they are not able, by their most diligent enquiry, to satisfy themselves concerning the foundation of these operations, or to remove the objections, which may be raised against them [Hume]
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Rende
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Re: Why people relate things to themselves that do not directly involve them and react to them?

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I always think of discussing problems in a personal way. So for me, our mind is a tool serving life, so in some aspects it's tricked by itself because the mind thinks in a natural way. This is an effect of defense. You can live with the thoughts you want or the ones that make you feel better, not anxious, if you are more aware of this. It just takes practice. Like focusing on what you really care about. My life and my mind's wish environment are what I should care about to be happy. But living also means that you should accept it as it is. We don't have the power to choose our thoughts. We can only have the will to change our life experiences, thoughts included.
The answer to a problem usually lies in the solution. The world is bigger than us. Life always finds a path.
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Re: Why people relate things to themselves that do not directly involve them and react to them?

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So many people in the West are unhappy because the news media have taught them to care about issues they can do little about.

But can we really want everyone not to care about the rest of the world ?
"Opinions are fiercest.. ..when the evidence to support or refute them is weakest" - Druin Burch
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Re: Why people relate things to themselves that do not directly involve them and react to them?

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Good_Egg wrote: March 4th, 2022, 10:47 am So many people in the West are unhappy because the news media have taught them to care about issues they can do little about.

But can we really want everyone not to care about the rest of the world ?
I was asking myself the same thing. The world could be better if everyone cared only about themselves. It would be more predictable. But I think it's not like this because nature has its own path. We must accept that we are not robots. We are complex beings. But what if evolution is pending more on robotizing of our brains so we can become more independent and predictable?

I think someone who cares about stories that actually are not related to himself is doing so naturally by not being intensely aware of what he thinks. Because thoughts are like a tool of defense. I think it's sociology and psichology combined. The implementation of the story of "war in Europe" or itd. is sociological because I could be involved in it in some way. People are social so we usally don't imagine living alone outside of a group. So then psychology acts the tool of thinking cliks on and we start to search solutions.
The answer to a problem usually lies in the solution. The world is bigger than us. Life always finds a path.
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Re: Why people relate things to themselves that do not directly involve them and react to them?

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stevie wrote: March 3rd, 2022, 1:50 pm
Sushan wrote: March 3rd, 2022, 8:39 am Why people tend to do so? Is it a feeling of unity? Or is it the feeling of doing the righteous thing against unfair treatment? Or is it merely use of an excuse to suppress the minority?
it's cultural conditioning. Cultural conditioning causes illusory experiences. The self identifies with phenomena that have nothing to do with it.
Cultural (or social) conditioning can influence certain behaviours of people in a society, or some kind of a peer group. But the individuals have the right and strength to be their own selves despite what the society says. This is quite easy when you are away from the general society, as American soldiers got isolated in Vietnam, faraway from their motherland.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: Why people relate things to themselves that do not directly involve them and react to them?

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Rende wrote: March 3rd, 2022, 5:12 pm I always think of discussing problems in a personal way. So for me, our mind is a tool serving life, so in some aspects it's tricked by itself because the mind thinks in a natural way. This is an effect of defense. You can live with the thoughts you want or the ones that make you feel better, not anxious, if you are more aware of this. It just takes practice. Like focusing on what you really care about. My life and my mind's wish environment are what I should care about to be happy. But living also means that you should accept it as it is. We don't have the power to choose our thoughts. We can only have the will to change our life experiences, thoughts included.
Society is an important factor which determines our actions. But it is not the only factor or the most powerful or prominent factor. Anyone can choose to just ignore it, but with consequences. Those who are strong enough to face such consequences go against the majority and the popular ways.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: Why people relate things to themselves that do not directly involve them and react to them?

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Good_Egg wrote: March 4th, 2022, 10:47 am So many people in the West are unhappy because the news media have taught them to care about issues they can do little about.

But can we really want everyone not to care about the rest of the world ?
Caring is one thing and relating things to one's self is another thing. We all feel empathy towards others when they are in despair. Closest example is the Ukraine war. We feel sorry for the Ukrainians. But we do not harass the innocent Russians blaming them for the decisions of their government.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: Why people relate things to themselves that do not directly involve them and react to them?

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Rende wrote: March 4th, 2022, 3:19 pm
Good_Egg wrote: March 4th, 2022, 10:47 am So many people in the West are unhappy because the news media have taught them to care about issues they can do little about.

But can we really want everyone not to care about the rest of the world ?
I was asking myself the same thing. The world could be better if everyone cared only about themselves. It would be more predictable. But I think it's not like this because nature has its own path. We must accept that we are not robots. We are complex beings. But what if evolution is pending more on robotizing of our brains so we can become more independent and predictable?

I think someone who cares about stories that actually are not related to himself is doing so naturally by not being intensely aware of what he thinks. Because thoughts are like a tool of defense. I think it's sociology and psichology combined. The implementation of the story of "war in Europe" or itd. is sociological because I could be involved in it in some way. People are social so we usally don't imagine living alone outside of a group. So then psychology acts the tool of thinking cliks on and we start to search solutions.
I don't think being selfish will make the world peaceful. We help each other because we think about others. If we stop doing the former, the latter will stop too. Human is a social being, and with today's technological developments it is too difficult to be alone. But I think we still hold the power over our thoughts, decisions, and actions.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: Why people relate things to themselves that do not directly involve them and react to them?

Post by stevie »

Sushan wrote: March 17th, 2022, 8:33 am
stevie wrote: March 3rd, 2022, 1:50 pm
Sushan wrote: March 3rd, 2022, 8:39 am Why people tend to do so? Is it a feeling of unity? Or is it the feeling of doing the righteous thing against unfair treatment? Or is it merely use of an excuse to suppress the minority?
it's cultural conditioning. Cultural conditioning causes illusory experiences. The self identifies with phenomena that have nothing to do with it.
Cultural (or social) conditioning can influence certain behaviours of people in a society, or some kind of a peer group. But the individuals have the right and strength to be their own selves despite what the society says. This is quite easy when you are away from the general society, as American soldiers got isolated in Vietnam, faraway from their motherland.
Maybe they have the right "to be their own selves despite what the society says" (who or what vested that right?) but I doubt that individuals generally have the strength "to be their own selves despite what the society says" and I don't think that it's a matter of temporarily being away from society considering the impact of having been raised in society.
mankind ... must act and reason and believe; though they are not able, by their most diligent enquiry, to satisfy themselves concerning the foundation of these operations, or to remove the objections, which may be raised against them [Hume]
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Re: Why people relate things to themselves that do not directly involve them and react to them?

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Perhaps one should look at the corresponding problem more positive. If you could rely on the corresponding people and they would do this in deterministic way , one could get rid of enerving discussions and just point to the people that relate all things to themselves. So one would have more free time for the really important things in life.
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Re: Why people relate things to themselves that do not directly involve them and react to them?

Post by Sushan »

stevie wrote: March 17th, 2022, 1:09 pm
Sushan wrote: March 17th, 2022, 8:33 am
stevie wrote: March 3rd, 2022, 1:50 pm
Sushan wrote: March 3rd, 2022, 8:39 am Why people tend to do so? Is it a feeling of unity? Or is it the feeling of doing the righteous thing against unfair treatment? Or is it merely use of an excuse to suppress the minority?
it's cultural conditioning. Cultural conditioning causes illusory experiences. The self identifies with phenomena that have nothing to do with it.
Cultural (or social) conditioning can influence certain behaviours of people in a society, or some kind of a peer group. But the individuals have the right and strength to be their own selves despite what the society says. This is quite easy when you are away from the general society, as American soldiers got isolated in Vietnam, faraway from their motherland.
Maybe they have the right "to be their own selves despite what the society says" (who or what vested that right?) but I doubt that individuals generally have the strength "to be their own selves despite what the society says" and I don't think that it's a matter of temporarily being away from society considering the impact of having been raised in society.
I think every human being gets that right with their birth. But the strength part hugely varies among the population, and I agree that many do not have the courage to go against the band wagon. But if someone listens to his/her conscience, atleast he/she will think twice before reacting to personally unrelated, but socially related matters.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Sushan
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Re: Why people relate things to themselves that do not directly involve them and react to them?

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detail wrote: March 17th, 2022, 6:33 pm Perhaps one should look at the corresponding problem more positive. If you could rely on the corresponding people and they would do this in deterministic way , one could get rid of enerving discussions and just point to the people that relate all things to themselves. So one would have more free time for the really important things in life.
I am sorry but I did not get you. Did you mean that someone should be there to determine whether or not to relate things to one's self, and then it will save us from relating unnecessary things to ourselves and can invest that time and energy into more useful things productively?
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: Why people relate things to themselves that do not directly involve them and react to them?

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Sushan wrote: March 20th, 2022, 1:58 am

I am sorry but I did not get you. Did you mean that someone should be there to determine whether or not to relate things to one's self, and then it will save us from relating unnecessary things to ourselves and can invest that time and energy into more useful things productively?
The fact is , that i rely on the fact that this person really relates it to oneself. So molestation in other cases is simply destored to this person because he/she felt involved.
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Re: Why people relate things to themselves that do not directly involve them and react to them?

Post by Sushan »

detail wrote: March 20th, 2022, 3:39 am
Sushan wrote: March 20th, 2022, 1:58 am

I am sorry but I did not get you. Did you mean that someone should be there to determine whether or not to relate things to one's self, and then it will save us from relating unnecessary things to ourselves and can invest that time and energy into more useful things productively?
The fact is , that i rely on the fact that this person really relates it to oneself. So molestation in other cases is simply destored to this person because he/she felt involved.
I understand your point now. You're suggesting that if an individual consistently relates issues to themselves, even when they are not directly involved, this could act as a diversion or a shield for others who might otherwise be affected by the issue. This redirection of attention could potentially free up time and energy for those who are not directly involved in the problem to focus on more productive activities.

While this might work in some cases, it's important to recognize that such behavior might not always be beneficial or healthy for the person taking on that role. Constantly relating unrelated issues to oneself could lead to feelings of unnecessary guilt, stress, or anxiety. Moreover, it might also hinder the growth and development of empathy and understanding among those who are not affected by the issue.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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