Truths > half-truths > misleading statements > lies

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Eduk
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Joined: December 8th, 2016, 7:08 am
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Re: Truths > half-truths > misleading statements > lies

Post by Eduk » November 8th, 2018, 6:32 am

Oh and in case it's not obvious I feel like a generic Trump supporter is in the same place as the presenter. They possibly don't believe a word they are saying they are simply trying to improve their position (or at least maintain their position). For example if I was a generic worker in the coal industry I may very well not like to think of myself as being partly to blame for global warming. I probably wouldn't want to think about the potential deaths and displacement. I probably would want to pay my mortgage and buy petrol for my car and get my kid's birthday presents and the like. I would probably like to feel useful.

Or to give a real world example. Greenpeace once came to my university and explained the problems surrounding slash and burn farming. Their solution was that everyone should stop. I pointed out that the farmer can't simply stop as they and their family would starve to death. The Greenpeace person looked at me liked I had sprouted a second head, the sheer incomprehension was itself incomprehensible to me.

So what I'm saying is that the coal worker doesn't need the option of carrying on or starving, they need many other options. A government looking after general welfare would felicitate in creating options.
Unknown means unknown.

Eduk
Posts: 2110
Joined: December 8th, 2016, 7:08 am
Favorite Philosopher: Socrates

Re: Truths > half-truths > misleading statements > lies

Post by Eduk » November 8th, 2018, 6:35 am

It can be argued that the empirical truth or falsehood of our words are incidental, and that their primary purpose is to help us achieve out goals in life, whatever they may be. If our goal is to speak or discover the empirical truth, then the truth/falsehood of our words becomes important because it happens to coincide with our goals. If our goal is to make a living and feed our kids then their truth/falsehood might be coincidentally important, but it's not forced to be. Likewise if our goal is to attain and keep political power.
Absolutely agree. And I think this is how the majority of people live their lives. It might be suspected that a higher than average number of people whose goal is the truth would be attracted to a philosophy forum but even here there seem to be many exceptions.
Unknown means unknown.

Steve3007
Posts: 5572
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm
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Location: UK

Re: Truths > half-truths > misleading statements > lies

Post by Steve3007 » November 8th, 2018, 6:36 am

Or to give a real world example. Greenpeace once came to my university and explained the problems surrounding slash and burn farming. Their solution was that everyone should stop. I pointed out that the farmer can't simply stop as they and their family would starve to death. The Greenpeace person looked at me liked I had sprouted a second head, the sheer incomprehension was itself incomprehensible to me.
Interesting anecdote. I think it's a good example of the error made by a lot of people who don't seem to understand that you can lead a horse to water but you can't force it to drink. i.e. if you want to change people's behaviour in a way that you regard as beneficial you have to give them an incentive to change.

Eduk
Posts: 2110
Joined: December 8th, 2016, 7:08 am
Favorite Philosopher: Socrates

Re: Truths > half-truths > misleading statements > lies

Post by Eduk » November 8th, 2018, 6:41 am

if you want to change people's behaviour in a way that you regard as beneficial you have to give them an incentive to change.
Yes, I couldn't agree more. Doing positive things is of more value than arguing against negative things, or at least both should be done :)
Unknown means unknown.

Steve3007
Posts: 5572
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Eratosthenes
Location: UK

Re: Truths > half-truths > misleading statements > lies

Post by Steve3007 » November 8th, 2018, 10:06 am

The plot thickens. White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders has now apparently tried to bolster her accusation of assault against the CNN journalist, Jim Acosta, by tweeting a doctored video of the incident.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -chop.html

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