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Does Trump Want To Be President?

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Greta
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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Greta » January 21st, 2019, 5:10 pm

Steve3007 wrote:
January 21st, 2019, 12:25 pm
... I presume even the most extreme Libertarian advocate of small government would rather do it in a more controlled way than arbitrarily removing 800,000 people from the payroll ...
The most extreme Libertarian would say this was an excellent way to do it.

It may be that you are too inherently decent to readily imagine just how indecent others can be when they lose their centre and start flailing.

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Fooloso4 » January 21st, 2019, 6:10 pm

@Greta . I think that this is exactly right. For the Libertarian the rights of the individual is paramount. Government is seen as an infringements on individual rights. It is a necessary infringement, however, and so must be kept to an absolute minimum. We have far exceeded that limit. It does not matter that many are helped by government programs, removing them is not wrong since they are not based on recognized rights. Rights in this view are limited to non-interference. If 800,000 or 8,000,000 lose their jobs, they had no right to them in the first place. On the other hand, the right to non-interference may entail the right to a wall as a means to vital protection of their rights. The rights of citizens trump human rights. Those who have been here longer enough have the right to refuse others the same rights they enjoy.

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Greta
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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Greta » January 21st, 2019, 9:06 pm

@Fooloso4 The way I see it, if a nation has the word "United" in its name, that's an indication of a strong separatist movement being quelled in the past, and you'd expect tense undercurrents to remain. As far as I can tell, the US is about as disunited as a nation can be without being in a state of civil war. Rather, it appears to be a cold civil war, which seems a tad circular given the Republicans' new alliance with Russia in working against the Democrats, especially since the Republicans were always more intense provocateurs in the Cold War than the Dems.

I feel like I'm watching the process of how a nation surrenders its democracy. The system gets damaged and remains powerless to defend itself due to the level of power invested in one position. Now so many norms, checks and balances have been undermined by Trump that, without significant reform, it's easy to see future presidents push the authoritarian experiment further again because Trump has shown that it's easy with the Murdochs, Kochs and Rothschilds smoothing the way.

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Steve3007 » January 23rd, 2019, 6:14 am

Greta wrote:The way I see it, if a nation has the word "United" in its name, that's an indication of a strong separatist movement being quelled in the past, and you'd expect tense undercurrents to remain.
That's an interesting point. Similarly, if a country explicitly has the word "Democratic" in its name (e.g. the former East Germany and North Korea) that seems to indicate that it's a dictatorship. Country names often seem, like Hamlet's mum, to protest too much methinks.

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Steve3007 » January 23rd, 2019, 6:15 am

So, following that logic, the most stable and comfortable-in-their-own-skin countries should be called something like "the completely anarchic mess of..." whatever.

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Greta » January 23rd, 2019, 3:40 pm

Steve3007 wrote:
January 23rd, 2019, 6:14 am
Greta wrote:The way I see it, if a nation has the word "United" in its name, that's an indication of a strong separatist movement being quelled in the past, and you'd expect tense undercurrents to remain.
That's an interesting point. Similarly, if a country explicitly has the word "Democratic" in its name (e.g. the former East Germany and North Korea) that seems to indicate that it's a dictatorship. Country names often seem, like Hamlet's mum, to protest too much methinks.
Good point about democratic. Protesting too much remains the norm, it seems. Look at the Yanks - one minute champions of democracy and ready to bomb their way to it, the next moving full speed towards authoritarianism, with plenty of media and citizen backers.

Yes, those elements of names are reminders for the naughty people who didn't like the idea that they lost and they'd better not get out of line again. I'm trying to think of a nation not founded in blood, or significantly maintained by it. Are there any?

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by UniversalAlien » January 29th, 2019, 8:51 am

Greta wrote:
......... I'm trying to think of a nation not founded in blood, or significantly maintained by it. Are there any?
How many nations in the world were created without violence or wars of independence?

"The only country that comes to my mind is Liberia........"
The Czech Republic and Slovakia were created out of the old Czechoslovakia without a war.

Luxembourg and Monaco seem to have evolved into independent countries without a war.

Australia and Canada became independent countries without a war.

Most countries in the “British” Commonwealth were spun off without a war although there was local agitation in some.
Quote source:
https://www.quora.com/How-many-nations- ... dependence

I'm also thinking if we looked hard enough we could find others
- Today in Iceland there is no standing army and only a lightly armed coast guard.

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Greta
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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Greta » January 30th, 2019, 3:46 am

UniversalAlien wrote:
January 29th, 2019, 8:51 am
Greta wrote:
......... I'm trying to think of a nation not founded in blood, or significantly maintained by it. Are there any?
How many nations in the world were created without violence or wars of independence?

"The only country that comes to my mind is Liberia........"
The Czech Republic and Slovakia were created out of the old Czechoslovakia without a war.

Luxembourg and Monaco seem to have evolved into independent countries without a war.

Australia and Canada became independent countries without a war.

Most countries in the “British” Commonwealth were spun off without a war although there was local agitation in some.
Quote source:
https://www.quora.com/How-many-nations- ... dependence

I'm also thinking if we looked hard enough we could find others
- Today in Iceland there is no standing army and only a lightly armed coast guard.
Both Canada and Australia were founded in blood and warfare, just that the wars with the existing indigenous people were so one-sided that descendants of the invaders now don't even think of it as war, just colonisation.

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