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How to reorient international relations towards cooperation instead of conflict

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LuckyR
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Re: How to reorient international relations towards cooperation instead of conflict

Post by LuckyR » March 3rd, 2019, 1:53 am

Jan Sand wrote:
February 28th, 2019, 9:09 pm
There are many possibilities for minuscule effects but any real effective efforts require the criminalization of murder for money and an effective massive panic to mobilize the entire planet and even then any success is very doubtful. That has yet to materialize.
Which options in your opinion are in the category of miniscule and which have you determined to be real effective?
"As usual... it depends."

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Re: How to reorient international relations towards cooperation instead of conflict

Post by Jan Sand » March 3rd, 2019, 2:58 am

In general, I cannot demean personal efforts at holding down the use of energies and modifying use of transportation but the immense changes in the entire dynamic of civilization everywhere is where the real change must occur to have any real deterrant on the rapid loss of polar ice and the incredible loss of insect life and the acidification and heating of the oceans that is destroying all shellfish and lowering the oxygen content of the seas and killing off almost all of the coral. Individual options in these areas have little effect. China is still building coal plants, the USA and Canada are doing their best to increase the production of the worst sources of the worst oil, Monsanto and other chemical corporations have not modified to any extent their use of insecticides and cancer producing weed killers and the brutal endless and ineffective and hugely overpriced military operations are contributing massively to the destruction of all those factors eliminating the possibilitary of life on the planet basically to contribute to corporate domination and wealth. Only governments can change that and, fundamentally, they do a lot of theorizing and talking but are doing nothing effestive to even slow down the approaching total catastrophe in a decade or two. Quite a few organizations and powerful individuals are eager to die very wealthy but the rest of us must be ssatisfied to join them in death at a lower fiscal rate and there is little indication of the necessary fury to make any change.

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Re: How to reorient international relations towards cooperation instead of conflict

Post by Jan Sand » March 4th, 2019, 12:40 pm

The Flux of Luck
All that wealth we accumulate these days
That drifts away in most curious direction to spatter
On things that just don’t matter or perhaps,
Contribute in minuscule gesture to the decays
Of collapsing bridges and the bitterness of instant coffee.

Politicians scramble to and fro lying like Pinocchio
Frantic in their tweetings on secret assignations.
The world, no doubt, is in its final rout with little shout
And hardly any whisper that might reveal disturbances that are real.
Flowers bloom in hot degrees with hardly any bees for pollinations.

Today, this day could pivot away from the persistent misery
Hammered into the souls of current obligations in all nations.
But we are the sons of guns where funs with potshots at polyglots
Compete with Donald Duck and shopping sprees and the living dead
Who munch for lunch on kindergarten kids who await in vain
Last minute rescue by Batman or Superman or the Easter Bunny.

We know, deep down, the governmental clowns who declaim in improper nouns
That we must thrust the muzzle of a gun into the face of anyone who might reveal
The inherent motivation empowers strong nations is based on the urge to steal.
We all kid to con that long ago once upon a time things and people were more sublime.
We will not see nor understand there never was a brass band to blast out melodies
To make things right. We now wait with folded hands and hope,
To face that final night.

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Re: How to reorient international relations towards cooperation instead of conflict

Post by Belindi » March 5th, 2019, 3:04 pm

Jan Sand is right that our time is the end of history. Our pathetic species had a lot of good about it.

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Felix
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Re: How to reorient international relations towards cooperation instead of conflict

Post by Felix » March 5th, 2019, 4:26 pm

I'd say the Bible quote pretty much sums up the situation: "Where there is no vision, the people perish." [Proverbs 29:18]
"We do not see things as they are; we see things as we are." - Anaïs Nin

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Re: How to reorient international relations towards cooperation instead of conflict

Post by Jan Sand » March 5th, 2019, 8:48 pm

Not very encouraging.

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Re: How to reorient international relations towards cooperation instead of conflict

Post by Belindi » March 6th, 2019, 6:50 am

Felix wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 4:26 pm
I'd say the Bible quote pretty much sums up the situation: "Where there is no vision, the people perish." [Proverbs 29:18]
The Bible has summed it up okay. I'd delete "vision" and substitute 'gut reaction' or 'emotional vibes' .

Public apathy is astonishing! My own quiescence is shameful.

Jan's poems have emotional vibes. Poetry is an idiom for comparatively few people and what is needed is a meme, a concise phrase, a myth with a real person at its centre sufficient to inspire enthusiasm. There have been such myths and such persons in recent history and what we need is some new person who is the centre figure for the new story that humanity needs.

It's unfortunate that Jesus and The Bible are widely held to be irrelevant, dogmatic, and fuddy duddy and I doubt if the emotional inspiration can come from Christianity or any of the established religions.
Language and pictures are globally available on social media.

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Re: How to reorient international relations towards cooperation instead of conflict

Post by Jan Sand » March 6th, 2019, 1:20 pm

Temporary

This star, our Sun, that pours both virulence and love

In continuity upon the spinning specks of our existence

Has limited reserves far beyond our needs or persistence.

We must assume temporal incoherence in our living mutualities.

Theoretics deny, in astronomies, that the faint touch of infinity

Is far outside our evanescent category, shared with mice and butterflies.


Each presence of our contemporaries is a moving spark, a declaration

To grow and quickly sputter out in a flash of borrowed energy and joy

To leave behind a glowing trail, a fading graffiti to declare we once were here.

The force of being alive requests we do our bests to remain, retain existence.

But utilities and fragilities demand a flux of capabilities, a juggle of the possible

To maintain in balance of dynamic skills that must face random finalities to fail.


Acceptance of the temporary, of the fireworks that rise against the dark and fade,

Has been denied for millennia, we do not easily understand life’s open demand

We each are just signposts on a distant destination yet unknown and unknowable.

A few of us are keys to open doors to move this thing along, but who and what and why

Remains a mystery which history has yet to unveil, we remain pawns in a play of chess

Where not reason nor logic nor love nor hate nor any humanity have goals to confess.

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Re: How to reorient international relations towards cooperation instead of conflict

Post by Jan Sand » March 15th, 2019, 12:20 am

I opened this topic in the hopes that some ideas might be shown as a way to vigorously solve the dilemma of the vital energies of current society being misdirected towards the ultimate failure of our species to evolve into creating a vital life sustaining planet instead of a determined creation of empowering the obsolete goals of brutality and disinterest in the welfare of all life including that of humanity. The innovative and explorative nature of humans has given it huge powers to dominate much of all the different ecologies of this planet in almost every aspect. From the ocean depths to the polar regions to outer space humans have solved the huge problems of how to exist and have promise to expand the reach of planetary life. The only other life to manage this probably is the microscopic bacteria which may survive the approaching human disaster. It is human adaptability that has provided the base for its success but it is very obvious today that humanity has retained some of its worst characteristics in this huge success and the overwhelming powers within the species are now rapidly destroying it because it cannot toss off those primal drives and evolve new ones to invigorate it to move ahead to the promise of a new type of life. It seems humanity has lost its very necessary ability to change and adapt when the only possibility to maintain and grow requires fundamental change and adaption. Humanity has become obsolete.

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Re: How to reorient international relations towards cooperation instead of conflict

Post by Belindi » March 15th, 2019, 5:45 am

E.g. the UK where we have not even cured the disunity of Brexit. Might we seek a new eccentric movement as begun by Greta Thunberg and acted upon in many nations?

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Re: How to reorient international relations towards cooperation instead of conflict

Post by Jan Sand » March 16th, 2019, 3:14 am

Today’s newspaper is filled with descriptions of the death of 49 people in New Zealand out of the attempt to solve world problems by a demented person who accepted tha the best agenda for being personally active towards saving the world was to murder at random 49 innocent people who merely wanted to live peaceful lives. The traditions of various forms of murder such as this to solve problems are deeply embedded in current society and in societies very far back into ancient times and the leaders of these societies in their large successes in mass murder are the most noteworthy individuals to be acknowledged in world history. There is a reflex reaction today to blame Trump and his idiot cohort for this terrible event but the many leaders in recent and current history do not diverge from this horrifying behavior to any noticeable degree and on a scale that makes the New Zealand tragedy so minor that it soon will be forgotten. Unnecessary slaughter of millions of innocents are so common in recent history that it seems to be a deeply embedded element in the minds of those individuals who are chosen to lead most societies. Unless this can be rapidly changed, the future of life on this planet seems exceedingly dim and I am not optimistic.

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Re: How to reorient international relations towards cooperation instead of conflict

Post by LuckyR » March 16th, 2019, 3:50 am

Jan Sand wrote:
March 15th, 2019, 12:20 am
I opened this topic in the hopes that some ideas might be shown as a way to vigorously solve the dilemma of the vital energies of current society being misdirected towards the ultimate failure of our species to evolve into creating a vital life sustaining planet instead of a determined creation of empowering the obsolete goals of brutality and disinterest in the welfare of all life including that of humanity. The innovative and explorative nature of humans has given it huge powers to dominate much of all the different ecologies of this planet in almost every aspect. From the ocean depths to the polar regions to outer space humans have solved the huge problems of how to exist and have promise to expand the reach of planetary life. The only other life to manage this probably is the microscopic bacteria which may survive the approaching human disaster. It is human adaptability that has provided the base for its success but it is very obvious today that humanity has retained some of its worst characteristics in this huge success and the overwhelming powers within the species are now rapidly destroying it because it cannot toss off those primal drives and evolve new ones to invigorate it to move ahead to the promise of a new type of life. It seems humanity has lost its very necessary ability to change and adapt when the only possibility to maintain and grow requires fundamental change and adaption. Humanity has become obsolete.
A completely commendable goal. Unfortunately, you are basically describing the competing interests of short and long term viewpoints. Only the thoughtful (a tiny minority) routinely appreciate the long range view. Thus there are only two solutions to the problem: fundamentally change the psychology of humans or change to an oligarchy such that the power elite (who happen to be tuned into this issue) make policy governing future catastrophe avoidance.

Getting the rabble to appreciate issues off of their radar screen is a fool's errand.
"As usual... it depends."

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Re: How to reorient international relations towards cooperation instead of conflict

Post by Jan Sand » March 16th, 2019, 4:01 am

If the current oligarchy is any representation of that solution they seem negatively capable of even a modicum of good sense, What you reject as "rabble" is the mass of humanity which contains an indescribably rich potential from totally hopeless to the most brilliant and possibly effective individuals. That is where hope lies, as remote as it seems to be.

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Re: How to reorient international relations towards cooperation instead of conflict

Post by Belindi » March 16th, 2019, 4:16 am

Jan Sand wrote:
March 16th, 2019, 4:01 am
If the current oligarchy is any representation of that solution they seem negatively capable of even a modicum of good sense, What you reject as "rabble" is the mass of humanity which contains an indescribably rich potential from totally hopeless to the most brilliant and possibly effective individuals. That is where hope lies, as remote as it seems to be.
On an optimistic note,the mass of humanity is visible when you look at those criminals who defraud charities. The charities continue to exist and the mass of contributors carry on supporting them.

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Re: How to reorient international relations towards cooperation instead of conflict

Post by Jan Sand » March 16th, 2019, 4:41 am

No doubt charities have an ameliatory effect on the deplorative main dynamics ofsociety but the are no real force on the corporate dinosaurs that are energetically chewing up the ecology that maintains planetary life. Something much more powerful must somehow gain control to even slow down the corruptive violence of the mindless greed now intent on obliterating whatever is left of decency and rationality of human society. the current revolt of the very young now just beginning may grow into something but it has a long way to go and time is very limited. These kids are fighting for their existence and all the effective force of the governmental scoundrels at the current service of the current elite are very strong.

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