Does Trump Want To Be President?

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Steve3007
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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Steve3007 » September 14th, 2020, 4:47 am

UniversalAlien wrote:Liberals have a bad habit of trying to support so many left wing, and 'control' orientated' agendas, that they some how manage to alienate a good part of their base.
I presume that's the whole point of settling on Joe Biden as the candidate. Inoffensive vanilla. Gaining power by rocking the boat as little as possible. An interesting contrast to the technique of gaining power by sinking the boat with explosives and replacing it with a bigger, gold plated one. It'll be fairly interesting to see which technique wins.

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by UniversalAlien » September 14th, 2020, 4:55 am

Steve3007 wrote:
September 14th, 2020, 4:06 am
UniversalAlien wrote:But there is an additional problem with Trump, with any psychopath, who can not show or feel any empathy for his targets - He does not consider, often can not comprehend, the full consequences of his criminality.
But, as a general thought experiment, not necessarily about Trump, can you imagine the idea of electing a psychopathic character to a position of power in order to use his/her/its skills (whatever they might be) to achieve goals? i.e. can you imagine a kind of functionalist, goal-oriented attitude to running a society which doesn't require the leader to empathize, or for us to think they're a good person with respect to their personal morals, so long as their skills (whatever they might be) can be put to good use? Obviously we could argue separately as to whether Trump, specifically, possesses any useful skills. But we could assume, for the sake of this argument, that he does.

I think this is how a lot of Trump supporters see Trump. The main skill they think he has is the ability to, as it were, crack heads together and get the job done by cutting corners and taking risks, and to hell with the rule book, and if those bozos down at City Hall don't like it they can park their bureaucratic overpaid asses on this middle digit (extends middle digit) and swivel. In other words, he's Dirty Harry et al. You wouldn't want to be personally involved with him, but man does he get results. That's the narrative, I think.
Isn't that what happened in Germany pre WWII with the rise of Hitler?

Of course I don't want to compare Trump to Hitler, he's not quite that evil, nor is he nearly as charismatic
or effective - But all psychopaths have similar traits - and in political psychopathology apparently having
enemies is important. With Hitler it was the Jews, communists, world bankers, etc. With Trump its the Socialists, radical anarchists, etc.

And Trump explains the narrative of violence on the streets as caused by the enemies which he actually stimulates to act. And of course the 'Hegelian dialectic' is now in play - Create a problem and offer yourself and your ideas as the solution - You see Trump is not nearly as stupid as he sometimes acts.

But as I used to say back in 2016 when, believe it or not, I was actually supporting Trump:

“You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.”
― Abraham Lincoln

Trump doesn't care - If he can fool just enough people to win the election "Let the public be damned"

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Belindi » September 15th, 2020, 4:20 am

Trump is an incarnation of the disadvantage of the democratic system. To keep a democracy compliant to a dictator the electorate has to be kept in a brainless frenzy of adoration.

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Sculptor1 » September 15th, 2020, 4:49 am

Belindi wrote:
September 15th, 2020, 4:20 am
Trump is an incarnation of the disadvantage of the democratic system. To keep a democracy compliant to a dictator the electorate has to be kept in a brainless frenzy of adoration.
He's an incarnation of privilege and corruption. I so not see him as disadvantaged, though for some reason he manages to attract such people to him

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Gertie » September 15th, 2020, 2:07 pm

Steve
But, as a general thought experiment, not necessarily about Trump, can you imagine the idea of electing a psychopathic character to a position of power in order to use his/her/its skills (whatever they might be) to achieve goals? i.e. can you imagine a kind of functionalist, goal-oriented attitude to running a society which doesn't require the leader to empathize, or for us to think they're a good person with respect to their personal morals, so long as their skills (whatever they might be) can be put to good use? Obviously we could argue separately as to whether Trump, specifically, possesses any useful skills. But we could assume, for the sake of this argument, that he does.
A friend from the American South says the fundamentalist nutters are willing to look past him being an a amoral scumbag (my words) in order to get the Supreme Court weighted with judges who will fix the constitution their way. Primarily re abortion, but to enable all their 'traditional values' (their words) to get the upper legal hand. He's a short term means to a longer term end, because Supreme Court judges are appointed for life.

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Ecurb » September 15th, 2020, 3:36 pm

In 2016 Trump was able to present himself as the anti-establishment candidate. He attracted voters for some of the same reason that Bernie Sanders did (on the opposite side of the political spectrum). Hillary Clinton (like Joe Biden) was the embodiment of the "system", a system that some voters like to blame for their lot, despite that fact that they are doing very well, and that high-paying blue collar jobs are not returning, given the global economy.

More surprising is that after nearly 4 years of incompetence, corruption, and hob-nobbing with foreign leaders who put bounties on American soldiers' heads, many Trump supporters continue to support him. Trump's anti-intellectualism appeals to them; as does the outrage he engenders in those high-fallutin' university professor types. Whether some of Trump's "outsider" appeal has worn thin now that he's an insider remains to be seen.

By the way, Gertie, I think Trump's anti-science world view appeals to Fundamentalists (as does his anti-abortion stance, which he doubtless holds only out of expediency). So does, "make America great again". Many Christians long for the days when the U.S. was a "Christian Country". In general, the religious world view reveres an Edenic past. In the past miracles occurred and Gods walked among men (in not only Christian mythology, but in most other traditions as well). The "scientific" world view sees humans as progressing; the religious world view sees them as regressing. (This is an over simplification, of course. Christians also look FORWARD to the Judgement Day.)

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Greta » September 15th, 2020, 5:23 pm

Gertie wrote:
September 15th, 2020, 2:07 pm
A friend from the American South says the fundamentalist nutters are willing to look past him being an a amoral scumbag (my words) in order to get the Supreme Court weighted with judges who will fix the constitution their way. Primarily re abortion, but to enable all their 'traditional values' (their words) to get the upper legal hand. He's a short term means to a longer term end, because Supreme Court judges are appointed for life.
As it turns out, it's a long term solution to a short term problem. Those judges will mean nothing if Trump gets what he wants - the presidency for life. Many observers are expecting a coup after he (most likely) loses the election, or at least an attempted coup, starting with legal challenges conducted in multiple states and the declaration of martial law.

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Jklint » September 15th, 2020, 6:30 pm

Sculptor1 wrote:
September 15th, 2020, 4:49 am
Belindi wrote:
September 15th, 2020, 4:20 am
Trump is an incarnation of the disadvantage of the democratic system. To keep a democracy compliant to a dictator the electorate has to be kept in a brainless frenzy of adoration.
I so not see him as disadvantaged, though for some reason he manages to attract such people to him
...mostly through a dearth of inter-connected neurons. Without question every nation has its allotment of idiots and morons but if one were to take a poll of the most outstanding example it's the one thing where the U.S. still ranks first and foremost headed by a CEO who want's to make America Great Again while being responsible for making it look like a 3rd world country in handling the pandemic...among other things.

Often when these idiots give there commentary one is forced to wonder if they replaced their brains with peanut brittle.

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Sculptor1 » September 15th, 2020, 7:17 pm

Jklint wrote:
September 15th, 2020, 6:30 pm
Sculptor1 wrote:
September 15th, 2020, 4:49 am

I so not see him as disadvantaged, though for some reason he manages to attract such people to him
...mostly through a dearth of inter-connected neurons. Without question every nation has its allotment of idiots and morons but if one were to take a poll of the most outstanding example it's the one thing where the U.S. still ranks first and foremost headed by a CEO who want's to make America Great Again while being responsible for making it look like a 3rd world country in handling the pandemic...among other things.

Often when these idiots give there commentary one is forced to wonder if they replaced their brains with peanut brittle.
These days social media seems equipped to supply any idiot with corroborative evidence of whatever they want to believe today.

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Jklint » September 15th, 2020, 7:39 pm

Sculptor1 wrote:
September 15th, 2020, 7:17 pm
Jklint wrote:
September 15th, 2020, 6:30 pm


...mostly through a dearth of inter-connected neurons. Without question every nation has its allotment of idiots and morons but if one were to take a poll of the most outstanding example it's the one thing where the U.S. still ranks first and foremost headed by a CEO who want's to make America Great Again while being responsible for making it look like a 3rd world country in handling the pandemic...among other things.

Often when these idiots give there commentary one is forced to wonder if they replaced their brains with peanut brittle.
These days social media seems equipped to supply any idiot with corroborative evidence of whatever they want to believe today.
There is much discussion among psychologists and behaviorists that the internet is in fact making a lot of us stupid mainly due to social media creating a glut of idiot clones. The internet in that respect has the greatest power to average down.

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Belindi » September 16th, 2020, 3:05 am

Jklint wrote:
September 15th, 2020, 7:39 pm
Sculptor1 wrote:
September 15th, 2020, 7:17 pm

These days social media seems equipped to supply any idiot with corroborative evidence of whatever they want to believe today.
There is much discussion among psychologists and behaviorists that the internet is in fact making a lot of us stupid mainly due to social media creating a glut of idiot clones. The internet in that respect has the greatest power to average down.
This is a social medium. Depends on the aim if any of the talking, and it depends on who is talking.

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Jklint
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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Jklint » September 16th, 2020, 4:00 am

Belindi wrote:
September 16th, 2020, 3:05 am
Jklint wrote:
September 15th, 2020, 7:39 pm


There is much discussion among psychologists and behaviorists that the internet is in fact making a lot of us stupid mainly due to social media creating a glut of idiot clones. The internet in that respect has the greatest power to average down.
This is a social medium. Depends on the aim if any of the talking, and it depends on who is talking.
That's true. But there is still much research going on in how the internet, so ubiquitous in everything, affects the brain. The results are not encouraging. Even so there were always at all times a plethora of non-thinking trogs on the planet.

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Sculptor1 » September 16th, 2020, 6:39 am

Jklint wrote:
September 15th, 2020, 7:39 pm
Sculptor1 wrote:
September 15th, 2020, 7:17 pm

These days social media seems equipped to supply any idiot with corroborative evidence of whatever they want to believe today.
There is much discussion among psychologists and behaviorists that the internet is in fact making a lot of us stupid mainly due to social media creating a glut of idiot clones. The internet in that respect has the greatest power to average down.
If you have access to Netflix, can I recommend "Social Dilemma".
Those actually responsible for many of the algorithms that have created this, line up to tell of their regrets in designing them, and tell how they restrict their own children from using Social Media.
The main theme is rewarding fake news and stupidity

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Greta
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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Greta » September 16th, 2020, 8:28 pm

Sculptor1 wrote:
September 16th, 2020, 6:39 am
Jklint wrote:
September 15th, 2020, 7:39 pm


There is much discussion among psychologists and behaviorists that the internet is in fact making a lot of us stupid mainly due to social media creating a glut of idiot clones. The internet in that respect has the greatest power to average down.
If you have access to Netflix, can I recommend "Social Dilemma".
Those actually responsible for many of the algorithms that have created this, line up to tell of their regrets in designing them, and tell how they restrict their own children from using Social Media.
The main theme is rewarding fake news and stupidity
We need to also consider Rupert Murdoch's media empire, which has worked for decades to replace journalistic integrity with rabid competition that rewards sensationalist spin and lies. It saddens me that, after the incredible damage that Rupert and Lachlan Murdoch have caused, there is zero accountability. If there was any justice in the world there would be a class action involving millions of people that would sue Fox and News Ltd into oblivion.

Since, of course, justice only exists in the world as a happy accident, Murdoch can continue dividing and destroying the west with impunity. Murdoch (and now would be King Donald I) are the gifts to Russia and China that keep on giving. That we allow, and even reward with taxpayer handouts, such traitorous activity in high places is saddening. I suppose this, as much as anything, makes clear what kind of world we live in - a jungle, where might is still right. The sweet delusions and ideals of the latter half of the twentieth century are well and truly gone.

In the short-to-medium term, most people have zero hope for a better future. By contrast, for the few right at the top, who are driving the death of democracy, these are days of plenty. Anyone who refers to humanity as "we" is either using shorthand or is unaware. There is no "we". There is now only the top 0.1% of humanity and its "cattle". The groups no more share the same fates than do humans and chimpanzees. One will most likely progress to transhumanism, the other will go extinct.

King Donald I and Fox together have performed an amazing confidence trick on the masses, giving the impression that they are on their side, helped with social media disinformation. In truth, the would-be Kings of the US are easily the greatest existential threat to the general populace - many of whom have been gaslit so badly that they would give their own lives to benefit the lying plutocrats at the top. I guess this is one more example of natural selection.

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Jklint » September 16th, 2020, 9:20 pm

Greta wrote:
September 16th, 2020, 8:28 pm
King Donald I and Fox together have performed an amazing confidence trick on the masses, giving the impression that they are on their side, helped with social media disinformation. In truth, the would-be Kings of the US are easily the greatest existential threat to the general populace - many of whom have been gaslit so badly that they would give their own lives to benefit the lying plutocrats at the top. I guess this is one more example of natural selection.
Based on consequences, de-selection is more like it.

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